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Anyone try out a Manley Core yet? Condenser Microphones
Old 2nd October 2015
  #181
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Can someone please post vocals recorded with the Core?

Thanks.
Old 15th October 2015
  #182
Gear Addict
Anyone have experience with the Vox Box and the Core who can attest to whether the Core gets the same sound quality as a vocal input. I'm a happy user of a pair of Vox Boxes, and am considering getting a Core as a dedicated vocal input strip so I can free up the Vox Boxes for mix-time processing.

Love the Vox Box. I understand stand it has more ins and outs and a different eq and some different gain stages than Core. But they otherwise look so similar I would hope to get the same sonic quality between the two units as a pure vocal input pre/strip.

I'm not just a fanboy. I've yet to find love for the Vox Box opto comp section. Everything else about it is stellar IMO, and the in/out flexibility is its under-rated power as a mix tool.
Old 15th October 2015
  #183
Gear Addict
Also, in response to a prior comparison with the 737, the Manley sound (Vox Box user here) is very different. They're both great in their ways. The eq's are both awesome but very different sound. The 737 pre is crisp and neutral by comparison; the Manley is richer and far better to my ear for most sources. Unlike many here, I LOVE the 737 comp; very transparent, and its side-chain is a de-ess master. I need BOTH to be happy; I run the VB into the 737, using all sections of both, except the VB opto comp is usually off. The Vox Box is way more versatile, though. Which is why I'm considering getting a Core so I can devote my VBs to processing on mixdown. It's such a tone-perfecting toolbox.

Just my 2p, of course.

Also, had a little issue with a VB cutting out about 10 years ago. Manley was quick to give me the fix for free. Best customer service I've ever gotten direct from a manufacturer. Only my wife takes better care of me.
Lee
Old 15th October 2015
  #184
Gear Addict
Also, in response to a prior comparison with the 737, the Manley sound (Vox Box user here) is very different. They're both great in their ways. The eq's are both awesome but very different sound. The 737 pre is crisp and neutral by comparison; the Manley is richer and far better to my ear for most sources. Unlike many here, I LOVE the 737 comp; very transparent, and its side-chain is a de-ess master. I need BOTH to be happy; I run the VB into the 737, using all sections of both, except the VB opto comp is usually off. The Vox Box is way more versatile, though. Which is why I'm considering getting a Core so I can devote my VBs to processing on mixdown. It's such a tone-perfecting toolbox.

Just my 2p, of course.

Also, had a little issue with a VB cutting out about 10 years ago. Manley was quick to give me the fix for free. Best customer service I've ever gotten direct from a manufacturer. Only my wife takes better care of me.
Lee
Old 15th November 2015
  #185
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Manley CORE = Outstanding Sonics

Recently culminated a months-long agonizing over the ideal channel strip (for me) with acquiring the Manley CORE, and this thread figured into my research. Long story short: it's a keeper.

Bought it from Sweetwater, who have a very easy return policy. Not returning it.

Couple of important factoids right off:
1) I'm using it in an extremely quiet room (the reason I purchased a lease on this place). I can hear my eyelids blink in this room. The Manley CORE that got delivered to me is not - not - noisy. Initiating the 20dB boost does not - not - produce an excess of hiss on my unit. I can only speculate why a couple of previous posters were getting noise and hiss from their units (noisy environments perhaps?).

2) I'm using the CORE as an all-in channel strip for (among other things) recording audiobooks. That means the recorded vocal must sound great on its own, not simply sit well in a mix of other stuff. And it does. For the first time, I'm hearing what my voice sounds like as if I'm outside my body, absent the interlocution of electrical circuitry. If anything, I'm amazed at how clean and pristine the unit performs against how big and open the pre sounds.

That all having been said, the unit's topology, both internally and at the faceplate level, altogether had me scratching my head a little in the initial testing. But, after the "ah-hah" moment finally arrived, I was like WOAH this is a brilliant piece of audio gear - that is, for someone like me who’s both the talent and the recording engineer simultaneously. I’m the market for a piece like this, and I really feel like Eve Anna nailed it. But to really get it, I kinda had to stop thinking like an engineer, and go back to thinking like a musician, and approach the CORE like it’s a guitar amp or bass rig.

And by the way, it’s amazing for those latter applications. In fact, that’s where the “Ah-hah” moment came, when I plugged my Gibson SG bass into the DI and started jamming. Then the whole concept of the unit totally made sense.

The “input level knob is really a variable attenuator” thing took some getting used to, even after Eve Anna’s painstaking explanations, maybe because I’m so used to that first knob on the left being a drive pot for the pre. On the CORE it’s not, BUT the ELOP compressor IS sensitive to the amount of input that attenuator knob allows in - in spite of the ELOP being wired before the pre. I know, I’m probably confusing the uninitiated even more, but it works, trust me.

That ELOP compressor, by the way, if it’s just reducing peaks and the GR needle is regularly hitting 0dB, that compressor is VERY transparent. If I didn’t have one eye on that needle, I might have assumed somebody at the factory forgot to wire the ELOP to the circuit board. Conversely, crushing the ELOP with guitar or bass signal yields some delicious results.

The Bax EQ is butter. It will also keep someone like me out of trouble from doing something goofy, like boosting and attenuating the same frequency with two different knobs (and let’s be honest, there’s plenty of EQ plugins that do sh&t like that, so why bother while tracking?). My vocal didn’t need much EQing (why f&ck with the sound of a Manley pre anyway?), but getting creative with the Bax on the CORE can turn a Strat into a Les Paul and vice-versa, which can be real handy for tracking DI guitars and bass.

The only way I could get the FET limiter to distort, is by plugging my bass in DI and boosting the hell out of the CORE’s Bax EQ - but I guess that’s why there’s subtractive EQ. Otherwise, the FET limiter kept the signal going into my MBox Pro from clipping just as advertised.

The big sapphire VU meter is sexy as hell.

Great work as usual Eve Anna!
Old 16th November 2015
  #186
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curve Dominant View Post
Recently culminated a months-long agonizing over the ideal channel strip (for me) with acquiring the Manley CORE, and this thread figured into my research. Long story short: it's a keeper.

Bought it from Sweetwater, who have a very easy return policy. Not returning it.

Couple of important factoids right off:
1) I'm using it in an extremely quiet room (the reason I purchased a lease on this place). I can hear my eyelids blink in this room. The Manley CORE that got delivered to me is not - not - noisy. Initiating the 20dB boost does not - not - produce an excess of hiss on my unit. I can only speculate why a couple of previous posters were getting noise and hiss from their units (noisy environments perhaps?).

2) I'm using the CORE as an all-in channel strip for (among other things) recording audiobooks. That means the recorded vocal must sound great on its own, not simply sit well in a mix of other stuff. And it does. For the first time, I'm hearing what my voice sounds like as if I'm outside my body, absent the interlocution of electrical circuitry. If anything, I'm amazed at how clean and pristine the unit performs against how big and open the pre sounds.

That all having been said, the unit's topology, both internally and at the faceplate level, altogether had me scratching my head a little in the initial testing. But, after the "ah-hah" moment finally arrived, I was like WOAH this is a brilliant piece of audio gear - that is, for someone like me who’s both the talent and the recording engineer simultaneously. I’m the market for a piece like this, and I really feel like Eve Anna nailed it. But to really get it, I kinda had to stop thinking like an engineer, and go back to thinking like a musician, and approach the CORE like it’s a guitar amp or bass rig.

And by the way, it’s amazing for those latter applications. In fact, that’s where the “Ah-hah” moment came, when I plugged my Gibson SG bass into the DI and started jamming. Then the whole concept of the unit totally made sense.

The “input level knob is really a variable attenuator” thing took some getting used to, even after Eve Anna’s painstaking explanations, maybe because I’m so used to that first knob on the left being a drive pot for the pre. On the CORE it’s not, BUT the ELOP compressor IS sensitive to the amount of input that attenuator knob allows in - in spite of the ELOP being wired before the pre. I know, I’m probably confusing the uninitiated even more, but it works, trust me.

That ELOP compressor, by the way, if it’s just reducing peaks and the GR needle is regularly hitting 0dB, that compressor is VERY transparent. If I didn’t have one eye on that needle, I might have assumed somebody at the factory forgot to wire the ELOP to the circuit board. Conversely, crushing the ELOP with guitar or bass signal yields some delicious results.

The Bax EQ is butter. It will also keep someone like me out of trouble from doing something goofy, like boosting and attenuating the same frequency with two different knobs (and let’s be honest, there’s plenty of EQ plugins that do sh&t like that, so why bother while tracking?). My vocal didn’t need much EQing (why f&ck with the sound of a Manley pre anyway?), but getting creative with the Bax on the CORE can turn a Strat into a Les Paul and vice-versa, which can be real handy for tracking DI guitars and bass.

The only way I could get the FET limiter to distort, is by plugging my bass in DI and boosting the hell out of the CORE’s Bax EQ - but I guess that’s why there’s subtractive EQ. Otherwise, the FET limiter kept the signal going into my MBox Pro from clipping just as advertised.

The big sapphire VU meter is sexy as hell.

Great work as usual Eve Anna!
Can you post vocals recorded in a mix from your Core? Would love to hear. Thanks
Old 16th November 2015
  #187
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Can you post vocals recorded in a mix from your Core? Would love to hear. Thanks
Krush: When I publish the first audiobook, I'll post a link to it. In the mean time, I'd suggest acquiring a unit on trial, and see for yourself if it's right for you.
Old 17th November 2015
  #188
Gear Head
Core

I've had a pair of Cores for over 6 months now. I use them on everything from my Manley Gold Reference to my Prophet '08.. Like everyone says, it's pretty hard to make them sound bad, unless you don't know how to use a limiter.

Mics I've used through it: Manley Gold Reference, Brauner Phanthera, Tfunk Copperhead, M81 and M80.. Peluso R-14 and CEMC6 stereo pair..

The Phanthera really shines through the Core. Out of all the mics I listed, for me, this is the best pairing. It's hard to explain, but the sound I'm getting is an awesome combination of vintage and modern. The roundness/smoothness and sheen of the Core and the crispness and cutting ability of the FET Phantera make an incredible duo (especially on hip hop vox). The Phanthera is a fairly colorful mic, but it's also extremely detailed. The Core has a round/smooth quality when not being pushed, but it also sounds very modern compared to say an LA-610 MKii (which I think sounds unreal paired with the Manley Reference Gold). The Reference Gold's brightness is tamed nicely by the LA-610, while it can be a little bright on some sources through the Core. The Copperhead can sound a little dull through the Core, but for bright/sibilant sources, it's actually an awesome combo. This leads me to believe that the Core just makes most mics more of what they already are, without imparting too much color (unless pushed/limited). The one thing that is consistent from mic to mic is the sophisticated round sheen that I've never really heard before..

I've also used the Cores for drum overheads w/the CEMC6's and it sounded amazing. The drummer couldn't believe it when I showed her just the overheads.. I ended up boosting the lows and cutting the highs, then used that overhead track in parallel with the kick to fatten it up.. WHOA.

My favorite use for the Cores? Running my synths through them.. Motif XF6 and Prophet sound unreal through them. Using the limiter in the right way gives the fattest crunchiest bass lines and every drop of synth goodness sounds like it's coated in a modern sheen.

If you can't make professional records with this. Give up. I'll try to post some samples in the next couple weeks.
Old 17th November 2015
  #189
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sota Kidd View Post
the sophisticated round sheen that I've never really heard before
I'm glad someone with your depth of gear experience pointed this out. Last night while listening back to some stuff I'd just recorded with the Core, I was just so blown away by "that sound," I almost didn't trust my own ears - you know how you can get confirmation bias to rationalize dropping a chunk of cash on something?

Apparently our fairy godmother EveAnna bequeathed us a little extra magic pixie dust in those triodes!
Old 19th November 2015
  #190
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curve Dominant View Post
I'm glad someone with your depth of gear experience pointed this out. Last night while listening back to some stuff I'd just recorded with the Core, I was just so blown away by "that sound," I almost didn't trust my own ears - you know how you can get confirmation bias to rationalize dropping a chunk of cash on something?

Apparently our fairy godmother EveAnna bequeathed us a little extra magic pixie dust in those triodes!
Yeah she did. I was actually a little disappointed off the bat, but they looked so damn good.. It took me a couple weeks to find the (really) sweet spots so I could fully appreciate them.. By that time I had become accustomed to the sound because it was all I was using.. It wasn't until I A/B'd a dry synth lead to one going through the Core (the ones I'm trying to find to post here) that my jaw dropped and I couldn't actually believe the difference I was hearing. It isn't as in your face as other tube pres (until you really push it or hit the limiter hard) but it is extremely versatile and the sound is unique. From crisp and clean to crunchy and fat... The Core can do most of it and kick a$$ on the way...

Also, if you're getting a pair, get the compressors linked before they ship to you. EveAnna herself told me that's what I should've done when I emailed them about it.. You can still get them linked later, but it'll cost you more for shipping..
Old 19th November 2015
  #191
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sota Kidd View Post
It wasn't until I A/B'd a dry synth lead to one going through the Core (the ones I'm trying to find to post here) that my jaw dropped and I couldn't actually believe the difference I was hearing.
Today I spent the afternoon experimenting with running loops on my Korg Electribe•S through the Core, and it was more fun than going to Six Flags/Great Adventure. Like hearing an entire sample library for the first time. The Core is just pure rock&roll man.
Old 23rd November 2015
  #192
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Manley CORE Audio Samples

Here's for Krush411, et al, who wanted to hear audio samples from the Core. Over the weekend I recorded a song using the Core exclusively as an input channel. It features vocals and Spanish guitar recorded with a Joe Meek JM47 LDC mic into the Core. Electric guitars, electric bass, and drum machine were recorded DI into the Core, and likewise direct into Pro Tools. No - nada, zilch, zero - EQ or compression were applied to the individual tracks once inside the box. (Subtle mix bus compression was used with a Massey CT5.) Here's a link to the track, which is a streaming MP3:

https://eric-vinc3nt.squarespace.com/today

Please cut me slack regarding the material itself; I've been writing novels lately and my instrumental chops are rusty, and the song itself is no threat to the Billboard charts. The JM47 is not the best of mics, but it's okay for this purpose. I tried to record the guitars, bass and vocals as cleanly as possible, except for the guitar solo, where I basically used the Core as a gain stompbox. There's vinyl scratches on the snare sample, so don't confuse that with clipping on the Core's part. The point was to throw a variety of source audio at the Core, and see how it all translated, both individually, and collectively, without the help of ITB plugins. Some of the tracks were sent to delay and reverb auxes, but that's not cheating, because those effects just amplify the existing source audio.

Whatever you think of how it sounds, I can tell you this for a fact: Using the Core to record this song was FUN. The unit is highly intuitive. It has a way of showing you where its sweet-spot is, depending on what you're putting into it. It forced me to put more effort and concentration into my playing, because it is SO faithful to the source audio. It also showed me what I don't like about the JM47 (I'll probably replace that with a AT4033). It also forced me to focus a lot on gain-staging, because yes, you will clip that FET brick wall limiter if you hit it too hard - on the second day of production I had to re-record the rhythm guitars for that reason.

Last edited by Curve Dominant; 24th November 2015 at 03:48 AM..
Old 24th November 2015
  #193
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curve Dominant View Post
Here's for Krush411, et al, who wanted to hear audio samples from the Core. Over the weekend I recorded a song using the Core exclusively as an input channel. It features vocals and Spanish guitar recorded with a Joe Meek JM47 LDC mic into the Core. Electric guitars, electric bass, and drum machine were recorded DI into the Core, and likewise direct into Pro Tools. No - nada, zilch, zero - EQ or compression were applied to the individual tracks once inside the box. (Subtle mix bus compression was used with a Massey CT5.) Here's a link to the track, which is a streaming MP3:

https://eric-vinc3nt.squarespace.com/today

Please cut me slack regarding the material itself; I've been writing novels lately and my instrumental chops are rusty, and the song itself is no threat to the Billboard charts. The JM47 is not the best of mics, but it's okay for this purpose. I tried to record the guitars, bass and vocals as cleanly as possible, except for the guitar solo, where I basically used the Core as a gain stompbox. There's vinyl scratches on the snare sample, so don't confuse that with clipping on the Core's part. The point was to throw a variety of source audio at the Core, and see how it all translated, both individually, and collectively, without the help of ITB plugins. Some of the tracks were sent to delay and reverb auxes, but that's not cheating, because those effects just amplify the existing source audio.

Whatever you think of how it sounds, I can tell you this for a fact: Using the Core to record this song was FUN. The unit is highly intuitive. It has a way of showing you where its sweet-spot is, depending on what you're putting into it. It forced me to put more effort and concentration into my playing, because it is SO faithful to the source audio. It also showed me what I don't like about the JM47 (I'll probably replace that with a AT4033). It also forced me to focus a lot on gain-staging, because yes, you will clip that FET brick wall limiter if you hit it too hard - on the second day of production I had to re-record the rhythm guitars for that reason.
Awesome, thanks for posting that. So the vocals did not have the Core comp or EQ applied? Those are the two features of the Core I am wanting to hear lol. Either way, thanks for sharing and for your time, I can at least get a feel for the preamp tone.
Old 24th November 2015
  #194
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curve Dominant View Post
Dude, get a brain and get in the game. I said I didn't EQ or compress once ITB.

<yawn/>
Gotcha, no need to get all bent out of shape, I misread.
Old 25th November 2015
  #195
Gear Addict
 
shalimo's Avatar
 

Motoxx not being funny but where can you get an API channel strip used for $1600 please tell
Old 11th January 2016
  #196
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RightOnRome's Avatar
hows it sound on kick drum?
Old 23rd January 2016
  #197
Gear Maniac
 
MarkH's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley View Post
Thanks again, Dave. I realize that you don't have the unit anymore, but in case some other folks are struggling with similar observations, I'd like to let them be aware of some potential points to keep in mind:

Regarding #1, we originally did have Panasonic center detented pots in the prototypes and pilot units but they did not feel as nice to early users nor were they ultimately going to be as perfectly reliable as our favorite and proven-over-25-years 100%-no-joke-reliable BOURNS pots so we changed main production to the BOURNS pots. And BOURNS won't make a center detent for the 91 series pots we now use in the CORE and in every other Manley product. Oh well. I'm going to go with the pots that will never go noisy and never fail instead of the center detent feature on an inferior part. At least we gave them a try. Setting the 3 EQ pots to midnight will get you there where you need to be for no-EQ, plus there is no guarantee that a center detented pot would have been exactly at 50% resistive value at physically-detented-center any more than placing the knob at 12:00 on a non-detent pot does. These are not electrically center-tapped pots deployed in this circuit, nor does the unit carry the price that custom center-tapped pots would force!

Regarding 2, 3, and 4, those comments seem to conflict with each other and still point to calibration of analog level issues similar to what we saw few pages earlier? For those new to the party, "0" on the CORE VU reading the line outputs should be set for standard line level analog +4 dBu and then should show up as -18 dBFS (or so) on your DAW meters. And you want the bulk of your signal sitting around there, not pinning the CORE VUs, and definitely not up anywhere near 0dBFS in the DAW. At these levels, the CORE solid-state output stage will clip at +20 dBu which will be -2 dBFS, and again, that is not where anyone should be tracking anyway.

If the LIMITER is distorting (which we let it do in the upper quadrant of the pot for creative crunching effects) and it is not a level issue, then the RELEASE time is set too fast for the transient you are trying to limit and that should not be a frequency-based but rather a transient-based setting problem. Easy fix = turn down the RELEASE knob and make it a little slower so that it's not trying to attack into the release and eat itself up timing wise. That FET limiter has a pretty fast attack!

Another possibility is that the unit will go into LIMIT as the output approaches +20 dBu, which happens to be right where the SS output amplifiers are going to clip, so if that is going on, you will be hearing the solid state output stages distorting and the LIMIT LED will come on and will tell you that the levels are not where they should be. In that case, reduce your input levels, and crank up the LIMITING knob to lower the onset of limiting threshold to get the unit to limit well ahead of +20 dBu if you are trying to limit, or reduce input levels and leave the LIMITING pot all the way down if you don't want to be limiting.

Hope this helps!
I realize this thread is a couple years old but it was very informative, so thank you EvaAnna for the details. I purchased a Manley Reference Cardoid mic and Manley Core. They make an excellent combination. I was on the fence between Core and Voxbox. Price wasn't the main issue for me. There were simply so many positive reviews on the Core I couldn't it felt like the right choice. Very happy.
Old 17th February 2016
  #198
I bet my balls that the issue with noise and this unit is due to the ad da input select.

If you run your converters at +4 dbu you would be loosing almost 20 db of headroom since this unit is capable of outputing +24 then noise will be 20db higher at low gain and 40 db higher at high gain.


This is a quiet tube pice. Ass eve said you need proper gain stage...

Last edited by Sebastian Vera; 17th February 2016 at 04:46 AM..
Old 15th April 2016
  #199
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Chris G's Avatar
 

anyone have any experience yet with the Core for strictly Voice Over? I do Network promo and Commercials all day over ISDN or Source Connect and would like to separate my Voice Over rig from my hobby music rig. I'm hoping the Core has some "air" in that eq. Not really looking to slam the comp, just knock down the peaks.

I'm using Shadow Hills Gama into Optograph into Maag Eq4 into Vandergraph right now as my signal chain, but I'd rather be using the SH gear for my hobby music stuff and get one solid channel strip for VO.
Old 15th April 2016
  #200
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Lupez's Avatar
Right now I am testing the Core against my ADL 700 (I have two of those).
Both excellent units - ADL having a smoother sound while Core more lively with more midrange detail and slight presence boost (around 5k) - perfect for guitar work.
ADL zero noise floor, Core better compressor section - super transparent!
EQ wise I haven't compared them yet...
Old 15th April 2016
  #201
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by scvo View Post
Slightly OT, but this is the exact same problem with my Voxbox. From day one, it's been disappointing in this regard. According to Paul at Manley, the "Input" control on the Voxbox should be thought of as an "attenuator", with it meant to be full clock wise (all the way open). Then set the gain to 40 (or slightly higher) and adjust the input/attenuation lower (if needed).

Sounds like it works the same way on the Core. Only on the VB, I don't have the luxury of an "output" control to make up some gain.

My Voxbox has always been "hissy" and that's probably one of the reasons it's the least used Pre in my rack. Sad but true.

Sorry EveAnna, but it's not the tubes in my case. It's always done it. Paul helped me understand the controls better (than the manual explains). That helped, but for it being such a clean pre (and uncolored) it's a tricky issue with the hiss - that's probably why mine just looks pretty in the rack.

I think my expectation was to be able to get into the gain (deeper) and get some color out of the VB when I wanted it. But that was never workable as it only produced more hiss, not the character or color I was after. If I was doing music, the hiss wouldn't be as big an issue. But I always shake my head at it everyday, when I see it in the rack not being used. But my friends are all impressed I have one.

Thanks for listening, now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
My VoxBox used to have some noise issues until Radar Doug fixed it a few years back. I recall he said it was a very simple fix. I can have the volume all the way up and it is as quiet as my Euphonix CSII. The VoxBox is perfect for my needs, or at least I am totally satisfied and blown away by it.

My VoxBox is currently being used by an amazing vocalist that is making her comeback after being in a very successful group in the 90s. She loves the combination of the VoxBox with the Manley Cardioid Ref mic (which has a Telefunken tube in it). It is the perfect combination for her and she has tried many microphones and preamps in her professional career. Her producer tells me the combination requires no EQ to her vocals. He loves the compression tracking on it.

In terms of bass, it is incredible. I recently recorded a phenomenal jazz bassist through it. He has a very expensive custom made bass guitar (that took a year to make and receive delivery from order). He was immediately totally satisfied with it as soon as he plugged into the unit. I applied some slight compression and no EQ and recorded him. That's all that was required. No further compression or EQ was applied on the mix.

It really pleases me to have something that you don't need to muck around with to get a great vocal or bass sound. I have not tried it on acoustic guitar or other instruments only because I like the sound I'm getting from the Buzz Audio gear on guitars, pianos, etc.

Last edited by waldie wave; 15th April 2016 at 01:43 PM..
Old 10th February 2017
  #202
Here for the gear
 

Not to hijack this thread , But I just purchased a Manley Core and so far it's amazing paired with my Manley Ref C , but I want to use this to run my outboard gear and some stuff in the box through it , what's the easiest what to do this ? I have a UAD apollo. Can I route it through and output of the apollo and back in ? Or do I need a patchbay
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