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Going from SSL console to Hybrid, will I regret this?
Old 8th May 2014
  #61
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Swurveman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post

I have a routing system for my Buss A and B going through a Dangerous Liaison and a Manley Backbone giving me instant access to everything from an 8200, 5500, EQP1As... to EARs, 2254s, 176s, A820... all without patching a single cable.
Sorry for the slight hijack, but since syra brought it up in the context of the thread, I hope it's OK.

I'm curious about the Dangerous Liason syra. If you don't mind, I have a question.

As you know you can set up and insert as much hardware equipment in Pro Tools, Cubase etc. as you have available I/O channels. I assumed the Liaison was a way to not have to deal with the potential latency/delay compensation issue, but when I watched the video of the Liaison Fab sets up and names the Liaison's I/O routing in the Pro Tools I/O setup "Insert tab" and then inserts the Liaison I/O routing on a Pro Tools channel just like any other insert that could be set up. So, wouldn't it encounter the same latency/delay compensation that all inserts encounter? And if so, what is the value of the Liaison? I realize you can A/B things on the Liaison, but you could do the same thing with your outboard gear as inserts already setup inside PT's I/O insert routing. You could also do this on any bus. So, I was wondering if you do things differently than Fab that brings value that isn't already available in the DAW.

Thanks for your, or anybody else's resonse.
Old 15th June 2014
  #62
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

I thought I was crazy, but I find myself with a lot more parallel chains itb as well. I tend to run a few mults of kick/snr which each feed a buss of all kicks and another all snr. These feed 2 drum busses where one is crushed for parallel comp. Its like this on vox and bass for me as well. I usually comp some of the tracks and make the og tracks inactive/hidden.

Thought it was just me, but I don't expect it to work like a console. I listen intensely and do whatever gets the sound in my head. Its easier on a console and I get tempted to want a ssl4k sometimes. But, Id have to buy it, maintain it, and pay to run it. I would sonically get where I'm going faster, but at a big expense. For me the other options have too big a tradeoff. I would use my folcrom w a slate raven before a matrix or sigma. I get tempted to test them, but every option falls so short of a console that I may as well work what I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1070 View Post
first of all i am not a native speaker, i lived and worked in nyc for a while but i still have major mistakes in my english. forgive me
anyways
I made a similar transition a while ago but it i did never owned the console. i was always mixing on a (SSL-k) wich is a amazing console with a lot of color, tone and personalty. i am not mixing rock, classical or jazz stuff and i never tracked mic's so i just comment on my personal experience with top40 , rnb and latley a lot of electronic stuff and the transition.

first of all i have to say that in the box gave me way more options in terms of routing and thats a real benefit. it takes way longer in the beginning and to get a tone, character and things seems to take forever cause there is a lot try and error. in my old world i touched the channel and i was good. at least more or less ... i had my bus A/B bus routings and things worked pretty well. the good news is once you get there ITB you will have access to a lot of channels recalled in 2secs..
what helped me a lot in the beginning was metering very precise because the "new" understanding of headroom is the major change in my opinion going in the box. i tried a lot of summing systems without any good result to be honest.
i think you will find some people telling you it makes the difference and you will have people like me telling you once you really into ITB headrooms, colors and tones you done need any more width, color or headroom from a summing mixer.
zero is zero period...

the dorrough plug-in from waves became my best friend in the beginning and i had a very nice chat to serban ghenea years ago on that topic. you have to handle levels like you do in the analog world becuase the plug ins will sound, respond way different. this is sooo key in my opinion. screw 64bit floating point whatever its nonsense in terms of building that big picture sonically... it helps in the end or on the 2buss as well if you record but for getting "sound" its very important how you treat your levels in the chains. i think there is the major problem with that new itb genereation. they kinda hit their kick on zero and if you translate that to a ssl it would be kinda +20db or so... but everybody should have their opinion

after a while i really ended up having tons of paralell chains, isolating frequencys to "add" instate of just pushing EQs...i got way better results with untraditional ways and i really think that is a major change in the workflow. plug ins dont sound like hardware, they sound simliar but they react different. talking about phase accuracy when pushing or shelfing frequencys i had some real nightmares in the beginning... thats the cool thing with analog gear, you can just hit stuff really hard and it will still sound cool most of the times. i did not had that experience so far ITB. but the workaround with parallel chains is a lot of fun and some plugs like the sheps 1073 from waves wich is pretty new are super impressive. so is the uad stuff...
i try to take stuff out most of the time and forgive me the phrase **** **** up like i never did before.. i sometimes have 4 single parallel chains on just kick and snare.. not talking about busses but it does make the difference to sonically.
Multistems are just a bid deal since i switched, i really stem stuff out like a multibus routing system and mix them in a final session. its another approach and it takes a little longer but its a way smaller session with a lot of control regarding dynamic and again width, headroom and frequency picture. it would be prob nice if i would add something like a api1608 or a small duality but i am so happy with my results that there is no real need for it. i think i would be just cool i am working for major labels, that should not justify or promote myelf in any way... just saying that i dont mind being competitive to any otb mix. its pure nonsense to say that you need console in 2014 to get a perfect mix. there is no analog vs digital anymore! i am not saying that there are not many uses for consoles specially for tracking, mixing rock or recoding classical music. anything with microphones i would defently go for a console.

i really think its a different approach and you have to love it and get your head around, once that is done you will have a lot fun as well. for automation i used a c24 and switched to euphonix because i am not having that much rides to do..

regarding hardware i still use some and i did not find a ITB solution wich i like more or equal. a pair or EL8-X for Drums, some Shadow Hills (500 series) for Vocals a Bricasti for reverbs and URS Space Station are still in my Rack and heavy in use ...
2x 500 Racks loaded with neve, api, chandler for pre amp colors and some standarts like 1176, Tg2, 747sp, because i track vocals as well.. Oh and my GML for my mixbus i could not live without. I love the L2 more the any other limiter and i really dig the massey and the mcdsp for busses. Space Echo, URS Space Station and all my analoge vintage synths i wont sell ever but that has nothing to do with mixing.

i use the Avid HD converts and i am in love with em. for my purpose they are just perfect. i have a crane hedd and a lavry gold a master A/D but really take the avid most of the times for recoding the 2buss.
For monitoring i use Barefoots, Ns10 and ATC SCM25A along with a Crane song...

I can just tell ya my results are amazing i wont go back to a console ever for my purpose and of course for the stuff i am doing. i think for rock music o something like coldplay its a whole different story.. i dont really know cause i never had any experience in that genre.
Old 16th June 2014
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissy View Post
Why not keep the ssl and mix ITB and the console sum to the SSl the best of both worlds
That to me sounds like an ideal solution.
Old 16th June 2014
  #64
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-661 View Post
[*] Folcrom Summing paired with JCF Levr w/trafos
or possibly the SSL Sigma, still undecided.
If you are considering the Sigma, you should also consider the Shadow Hills Industries "The Equinox".

You get:
  • 32 inputs (30 for summing, 2 for your DAW output, giving you the ability to A/B your DAW sound vs. your summed sound.
  • Dual Gama preamps with 3 transformer winding choices (nickel, iron, steel) that are not only usable for recording tracks, but also for gain makeup whilst summing.
  • Insert/return loop for additional gear (or a tape machine)
    [NOTE: Because of one of the input switch selections, you can actually A/B/C compare between DAW, Summed, and Summed+External]
  • Mastering-grade monitor section with 3 speaker system outputs, plus a headphone system.

I have, at times, looked at replacing The Equinox with something more affordable, but when you try to select gear that will replace it, you just cannot find anything that competes with the features, quality _and_ the ease of use.

And besides, it looks like a piece of gear from the lab where Captain America became Captain America! (Really -- watch the 1st movie -- they show a close-up of one of the control panels... I would not be surprised if Peter Reardon is listed in the credits as a set designer!


-
Old 14th August 2014
  #65
Gear Maniac
 
rogernotroger's Avatar
 

Sitting here reading this thread from the beginning today, and this made me laugh - sums up every other discussion on GS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kress View Post
I think this is a great discussion and no one has ruined it yet : )
heh
Old 18th March 2017
  #66
Rea
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Rea's Avatar
 

AWS- best of all worlds.
Old 8th June 2018
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
mike-661's Avatar
I ended up using a Matrix + lots of outboard in what was then my "new mix room" in 2014/2015 till recently.

For a few years I was very happy with the sound and workflow until recently when we did a 100% recap and reswitch of my 8000G+ The recapped old desk made the Matrix sound like an ITB mix in comparison. Instantly I knew I could only move forward with an old recapped desk.

The "new mix room" now has a 32 channel 4000 (pics coming soon).

Now I have 2 rooms with lfac SSL's with Tangerine computer and Atomic PSU's and a smaller room with the Matrix.

It's a lot of work and a commitment, but if done right, the old desks will do you right!

Hopefully this helps any of you guys who are on the fence and can swing the big ol' analog desk!
Old 8th June 2018
  #68
Solid State Logic
 
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Thing of beauty :-)
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