The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
D&R vs APB Dynasonics? Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 27th March 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
margusalviste's Avatar
D&R vs APB Dynasonics?

Hi fellows! Has any of you tried both the D&R and APB Dynasonics consoles side by side? So any comparison? Which one sounds better? Which one has better pres, EQ, routing options? Thanks!
Old 27th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Depends on which model...but generally APB designed as a live console lacking studio functions
Old 27th March 2014
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
margusalviste's Avatar
Thanks! I know that but still, if I have a chance to get an Orion or an APB Spectra for the same price then what to expect from both of them?
Old 27th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
I had an Orion and it's a great desk. reliable and quiet. Neutral in character. Usually affordable used, so my vote goes to D&R.
Old 27th March 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
VT-MHE's Avatar
Get the D&R
Old 27th March 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VT-MHE View Post
Get the D&R
Chuck A makes a great console (APB) but it is designed for churches & small theaters where they want user familiarity not seen on digital consoles.
The Orion was designed as a proper studio console..and a bit of a bargain if in good shape.
Old 27th March 2014
  #7
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VT-MHE View Post
Get the D&R
+ 3
Old 27th March 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
JohnRoberts's Avatar
 

The APB audio path will be very good (caveat: I am friends with the designer), but it doesn't matter if the desk does not have the right feature set for your needs. APB is generally live or fixed installation product.

You can check out the features on the APB website.

JR
Old 27th March 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
margusalviste's Avatar
Thanks a lot! I need mostly pres for not-so-important parts (i have plenty of great outboard pres for main parts) and for summing. These days I mix mostly ITB.
Old 27th March 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
 

I never see D&R consoles for sale here in the States. Where did you guys with Orions and other upper end D&Rs find your consoles?
Old 28th March 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
I never see D&R consoles for sale here in the States. Where did you guys with Orions and other upper end D&Rs find your consoles?
Brad they show up in all the usual places, they are not that common but they are out there.
Also the guy in TX who was the US importer always knew what was on the market.
Old 28th March 2014
  #12
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
I bought mine NEW. heh

I know of an Orion FS, but it's NOT cheap..... At least it's not bargain basement cheap.
Old 28th March 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
 
kosty's Avatar
+1 for the Orion !
Old 28th March 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 

In this day and age of hybrid studios, I'm not sure I understand why a console like an APB Spectra would be less than ideal. Mono & stereo channels. Line ins, direct outs, plenty of auxes, busses, groups, decent mic pres and really nice EQ with HPF. The matrix feature can be used for several que mixes at once, like having a monitor board built in. They even have a talk-back mic input. Other than being able to assign any channel to any recorder input at the push of a button ( but you can use a patch bay ) what makes a dedicated "recording" console more desirable over a very good "live" board, which is packed with features? What "studio functions" do we still really need in today's modern hybrid situation? Sorry if my response is a bit off-topic.
Old 28th March 2014
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
margusalviste's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
In this day and age of hybrid studios, I'm not sure I understand why a console like an APB Spectra would be less than ideal. Mono & stereo channels. Line ins, direct outs, plenty of auxes, busses, groups, decent mic pres and really nice EQ with HPF. The matrix feature can be used for several que mixes at once, like having a monitor board built in. They even have a talk-back mic input. Other than being able to assign any channel to any recorder input at the push of a button ( but you can use a patch bay ) what makes a dedicated "recording" console more desirable over a very good "live" board, which is packed with features? What "studio functions" do we still really need in today's modern hybrid situation? Sorry if my response is a bit off-topic.

Great post, thanks! Any replies?
Old 28th March 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
In this day and age of hybrid studios, I'm not sure I understand why a console like an APB Spectra would be less than ideal. Mono & stereo channels. Line ins, direct outs, plenty of auxes, busses, groups, decent mic pres and really nice EQ with HPF. The matrix feature can be used for several que mixes at once, like having a monitor board built in. They even have a talk-back mic input. Other than being able to assign any channel to any recorder input at the push of a button ( but you can use a patch bay ) what makes a dedicated "recording" console more desirable over a very good "live" board, which is packed with features? What "studio functions" do we still really need in today's modern hybrid situation? Sorry if my response is a bit off-topic.
Ease of routing, and control room functionality are the 2 major things.
Secondary would be input density and foot print, most modern inline boards give you twice the input count over a live desk without a major increase in foot print.
If your just doing summing with basic EQing, a Live desk is fine, but as you grow into mixing you find yourself dreaming of the routing of a real recording console.
Old 28th March 2014
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I bought mine NEW. heh

I know of an Orion FS, but it's NOT cheap..... At least it's not bargain basement cheap.
I'd be interested in hearing the price. I must admit, however, to being a bit scared by some of the stories regarding lack of ability to have the console serviced/repaired if necessary.
Old 28th March 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I just picked up an APB prodesk32x4 this year for my studio. It is a great desk and makes my mixing life much easier. Clean, quiet, excellent pres and eq, headroom for days and the variable hpf on every channel was life changing. I am not familiar with the Orion but I can testify that the APB makes for a fantastic studio board.
Old 28th March 2014
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
margusalviste's Avatar
Interesting how do the APB preamps sound compared to the D&R Orion ones? It seems that both of these boards are quite transparent, isn't it so?
Old 28th March 2014
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
I'd be interested in hearing the price. I must admit, however, to being a bit scared by some of the stories regarding lack of ability to have the console serviced/repaired if necessary.
What??? Not sure where you heard that. All the D&R's are quite possibly the easiest "vintage" boards to service out there. Readily available parts, and a company still in existance that loves and supports their products and clients. If you want more info you can PM me.
Old 28th March 2014
  #21
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
what makes a dedicated "recording" console more desirable over a very good "live" board, which is packed with features?
In line design, and the flexability and density of inputs it provides. Plus, the control aspects.
Old 29th March 2014
  #22
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
For those that don't understand "in line design" it is in-effect a second mixer overlaid on the main...permitting you to record on a channel while monitoring the return from your recorder. With a live console each input having only a single path means you either record OR monitor/mix a return.
Old 29th March 2014
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Mike. So, as an example, Mr Cleary above - with his ProDesk432 -, can record first sixteen channels and monitor back on 17 to 32. Split design, like the old days? How many of us - today - need to record more than that at the same time? If you do, on a regular basis, then you're in the market for a more sophisticated desk anyway. Not trying to argue, just pointing out different work flows.
Old 29th March 2014
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
hedgehog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
What??? Not sure where you heard that. All the D&R's are quite possibly the easiest "vintage" boards to service out there. Readily available parts, and a company still in existance that loves and supports their products and clients. If you want more info you can PM me.
Maybe, but problems on the digital side of a Cinemix or Octagon is a totally different story. As an example the Cinemix 1 software isnt available anymore. No backups, nothing. With a dead master section of a Cinemix you're done.
Old 29th March 2014
  #25
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
Maybe, but problems on the digital side of a Cinemix or Octagon is a totally different story. As an example the Cinemix 1 software isnt available anymore. No backups, nothing. With a dead master section of a Cinemix you're done.
Have you contacted D&R for the software? It's still out there, although the computers that run it are getting harder to find. Just like those old Necam systems on Neve consoles. Early SSL owners are finding similar problems.

Have you sought help from D&R with your Cinemix master section? I've found them very helpful. I know people with Cinemixes who have repaired the master section.

I agree though, definitely a further stretch to repair those consoles vs. Orion's, Visions, Triton's, etc., that didn't have digitally controlled master sections.
Old 29th March 2014
  #26
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
[QUOTE=Spiritworks;9987412]Thanks Mike. So, as an example, Mr Cleary above - with his ProDesk432 -, can record first sixteen channels and monitor back on 17 to 32. Split design, like the old days? How many of us - today - need to record more than that at the same time? If you do, on a regular basis, then you're in the market for a more sophisticated desk anyway. Not trying to argue, just pointing out different work .

Yes...and a live console also has a very limited monitoring section. No control between two mix out...control room out...studio playback.
Old 29th March 2014
  #27
Lives for gear
 

[QUOTE=MIKEHARRIS;9988142]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
Thanks Mike. So, as an example, Mr Cleary above - with his ProDesk432 -, can record first sixteen channels and monitor back on 17 to 32. Split design, like the old days? How many of us - today - need to record more than that at the same time? If you do, on a regular basis, then you're in the market for a more sophisticated desk anyway. Not trying to argue, just pointing out different work .

Yes...and a live console also has a very limited monitoring section. No control between two mix out...control room out...studio playback.
Except in the case of the APB. Between the matrix and the recording and two track inputs and outputs, I have more than enough to handle all of these monitoring needs. From the APB site below.

Each of the 6 auxiliary master sections include level, internally illuminated mute and AFL switches, and Peak/Signal present LED monitoring of mix bus levels. All auxiliary outputs are on XLR balanced connectors and each auxiliary section includes TRS balanced input connectors and pre-level control / pre-AFL switch TRS insert connectors.

A four channel Matrix system is provided. Signal source for each of the matrix sections include the Left, Right, Center, and Mono signals, selectable pre or post their master level faders. Each of the 4 group signals is available to each matrix, also front panel switch derived pre or post from their associated group level fader. An external input is provided into each matrix by balanced TRS connector. These connectors are normalled together so that a signal plugged only into Matrix 1 will appear on all four matrix external input level controls if no connector is plugged into the remaining external input connectors. All matrix outputs are on balanced XLR output connectors and each matrix section includes TRS balanced input connectors and pre-level control / pre-AFL switch TRS insert connectors.

A Stereo Program Input section may be selected to receive its input signal from a front panel mounted stereo 1/8" input connector, rear panel left and right TRS balanced and RCA input connectors, or a stereo USB digital input (same signal that is made available to Line input Source D). A stereo program input level control with high and low frequency EQ controls are provided as well as separate left and right peak / signal present LED indicators plus Solo and Mute switches. The stereo program input may be assigned to any combination of Left-Right, Center, Mono, Matrix 1-2, Matrix 3-4, and Auxiliary 1-2 mix buses.

An alternated output section labeled Stereo Record Output includes a stereo output level control feeding stereo TRS balanced and RCA output connectors plus a stereo USB Digital output. Mute and Solo switches are provided. The output source can be any combination of Left-Right, Center, Mono, Matrix 1-2 and Aux 1-2. This output can be switch selected to operate in stereo or mono and it may be sourced pre or post their master level controls.

Separate level controls are provided for Headphone and Monitor outputs and each have separate solo off switches with LED indicators. Any combination of Left-Right, Center, Mono, and Aux 1-2 may be switched to be monitored in stereo or mono, pre or post their master level controls. A solo trim control is provided with on switch with LED. Both ¼" and 1/8" headphone connectors are provided under the front panel armrest. Monitor outputs are located on the rear panel and include both left and right balanced ¼" TRS connectors plus additional summed output ¼" TRS connector for use with subwoofers in near field monitoring applications.

The Talkback system provides access to the Left-Right, Center, and Mono outputs as well as assignments to each auxiliary pair and to the matrix and group outputs. The talkback signal is activated by a "smart" switch that acts both as a momentary on or as a latching on switch. The talkback on source can be switch from an XLR microphone input connector located under the front panel armrest to a reference signal, selectable between noise and a 1 kHz tone.
Old 29th March 2014
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
Thanks Mike. So, as an example, Mr Cleary above - with his ProDesk432 -, can record first sixteen channels and monitor back on 17 to 32. Split design, like the old days? How many of us - today - need to record more than that at the same time? If you do, on a regular basis, then you're in the market for a more sophisticated desk anyway. Not trying to argue, just pointing out different work flows.
Thats a great example. In my case I use a lot of outboard pres so my 24 track hard disc recorder is always patched in channels 1-24. If I need more pres, or inputs, or returns, etc I have the additional 8 channels available. For my workflow it is more than sufficient and sounds fantastic.
Old 30th March 2014
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
hedgehog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Have you contacted D&R for the software? It's still out there, although the computers that run it are getting harder to find. Just like those old Necam systems on Neve consoles. Early SSL owners are finding similar problems.

Have you sought help from D&R with your Cinemix master section? I've found them very helpful. I know people with Cinemixes who have repaired the master section.

I agree though, definitely a further stretch to repair those consoles vs. Orion's, Visions, Triton's, etc., that didn't have digitally controlled master sections.
Yes of course we did. Contacted Duco directly. they have indeed some software revisions, but not the ones for the Cinemix 1. I have a spare master section, but I must admit its a Cinemix 2. so I have the wrong eproms on it. Of course it would be possible to take out the eproms an burn new ones, but that's too risky for me at the moment. Are there any guys in the US with more infos?

Do you know Orion's with the Powerfade on it? I use the Cinemix automated faders all the time, can't imagine to work without it, I use a lot of outboard compressors.

regards

gregor
Old 30th March 2014
  #30
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
Yes of course we did. Contacted Duco directly. they have indeed some software revisions, but not the ones for the Cinemix 1. I have a spare master section, but I must admit its a Cinemix 2. so I have the wrong eproms on it. Of course it would be possible to take out the eproms an burn new ones, but that's too risky for me at the moment. Are there any guys in the US with more infos?

Do you know Orion's with the Powerfade on it? I use the Cinemix automated faders all the time, can't imagine to work without it, I use a lot of outboard compressors.

regards

gregor
Gregor, I know Paul Westbrook in the US has been good with maintaining the Cinemixes, but I would imagine he's done it with the help of Duco and D&R Netherlands. I believe he has "upgraded" some Cinemix 1's to 2's in the past.

Yes, I used powerfade on my OrionX for quite awhile. Software is similar, but the faders are not motorfaders like the Cinemix. I hope you find a solution to your problem. There is no doubt that mixing digital control into the console topology complicates things exponentially in terms of maintainence and longevity. Best of luck. bp
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump