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Bricasti M7 - version 3.0 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 10th May 2018
  #211
Gear Addict
 
eugtone's Avatar
Self nulls

Looks like the random autopan is the M7. An M7 self null test leaves a quiet random panning copy of the input. So I'd have to conclude the M7 Hall algorithm is a completely deterministic linear convolution + autopan.

A self null test with Verbsuite has a sinusoidal autopan.

I'm guessing this is why Clearmountain has a SPX990 with an autopan patch in his studio to add motion and life to his mixes? Do other people use autopan much?
Attached Files

M7_self_null.wav (1.77 MB, 4193 views)

VS_self_null.wav (1.77 MB, 4177 views)

Old 11th May 2018
  #212
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eugtone's Avatar
(well, more accurately, for a given set of fixed settings [and yes, editability is important], the element not accurately captured by a convolution impulse seems to be a random autopan)
Old 11th May 2018
  #213
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eugtone's Avatar
Of the two samples above, A.wav is the Bricasti HW.
Old 12th May 2018
  #214
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugtone View Post
Of the two samples above, A.wav is the Bricasti HW.
I am not too surprised. Whenever you leave the box then come back into the box, everything matters to a great degree. I am assuming here that B.wav was completely in the box.

Just out of curiosity, what was your hardware setup?

The D/A and A/D could easily be holding things back. I own a couple of pieces that would do that. I even have some cables that could damage the sound (Hosa - I won't even give them away because of the bad Karma that I would accumulate.)
Old 12th May 2018
  #215
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eugtone's Avatar
Yes, B stayed in the box. A.wav went through MOTU 828mkiii AD/DA at 44.1khz and through the analog IO on the bricasti. I just don't believe my cables would make or break the bricasti here. I use the same cables on the Yamaha Pro R3, PCM70 and H3500 upgrade to get the Dense Room presets, and all of those were immediately WOW! Maybe I'm just after a 1990 guitar tone and more realistic verbs aren't what I'm after, but after all the fuss I heard about the M7, after finally forking over the cash... I dunno.... sounds great, but not $4000 better than linear convolution + autopan.
Old 12th May 2018
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugtone View Post
Yes, B stayed in the box. A.wav went through MOTU 828mkiii AD/DA at 44.1khz and through the analog IO on the bricasti. I just don't believe my cables would make or break the bricasti here. I use the same cables on the Yamaha Pro R3, PCM70 and H3500 upgrade to get the Dense Room presets, and all of those were immediately WOW! Maybe I'm just after a 1990 guitar tone and more realistic verbs aren't what I'm after, but after all the fuss I heard about the M7, after finally forking over the cash... I dunno.... sounds great, but not $4000 better than linear convolution + autopan.
Well, I also liked your B.wave, but I have heard the Bricasti sound better in other demos, so something is suffering along the way. (Yes, most cables sound fine, I was just tossing out possibilities.)

I am not familiar with the Motu sound quality. If you send me your Bricasti, I will send my Cranesong Solaris into it and record back through my Dangerous AD+.

No charge for the service.
Old 12th May 2018
  #217
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
Well, I also liked your B.wave, but I have heard the Bricasti sound better in other demos, so something is suffering along the way. (Yes, most cables sound fine, I was just tossing out possibilities.)

I am not familiar with the Motu sound quality. If you send me your Bricasti, I will send my Cranesong Solaris into it and record back through my Dangerous AD+.

No charge for the service.
Ha ha... if u send me your bank account passwords I’ll make sure they are all ok. No charge for service! Just kidding.....

Yeah I think guitars sound great through almost any reverb. Try using vocals and drums and I suspect the differences will be way more noticeable. I find a huge difference with Bricasti compared to software when I do something like put a room drum track into it. Often cheaper reverbs sound great on guitars. I think guitars are in fact the easiest things to sound great with reverb and drums probably the hardest.
Old 12th May 2018
  #218
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eugtone's Avatar
Sorry, after more investigation, it seems the 1 presets are predominantly well represented by a linear convolution + autopan. Halls 2, Plates 2, Rooms 2, and Spaces 2 Nonlin A do not.
Old 12th May 2018
  #219
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eugtone's Avatar
OK, finding the magic now. In a mix context, Tiled Room rocks. 4/0 blind choice for the HW using nugen AB assist.
Old 12th May 2018
  #220
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eugtone's Avatar
And... pretty epic on strings. I can see why Hans Zimmer's guy has 6 of them. OK, I'll keep it.
Old 12th May 2018
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugtone View Post
And... pretty epic on strings. I can see why Hans Zimmer's guy has 6 of them. OK, I'll keep it.
i'd rather like one device with 6 (or more) i/o's... - anything coming from bricasti for surround/multichannel work?!
Old 12th May 2018
  #222
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugtone View Post
Yes, B stayed in the box. A.wav went through MOTU 828mkiii AD/DA at 44.1khz and through the analog IO on the bricasti. I just don't believe my cables would make or break the bricasti here. I use the same cables on the Yamaha Pro R3, PCM70 and H3500 upgrade to get the Dense Room presets, and all of those were immediately WOW! Maybe I'm just after a 1990 guitar tone and more realistic verbs aren't what I'm after, but after all the fuss I heard about the M7, after finally forking over the cash... I dunno.... sounds great, but not $4000 better than linear convolution + autopan.
Try running the M7 through the 828's digital I/O. I run mine w/an AES->ToSLink box I/o to my 16A for printing.
Old 13th May 2018
  #223
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So I guess v3 is still a while away..... I’ll be first customer
Old 13th May 2018
  #224
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog007 View Post
So I guess v3 is still a while away..... I’ll be first customer
Over my dead body
Old 14th May 2018
  #225
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egloss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_hog View Post
Over my dead body

No, over mine!!


ill get a h9000 until it gets available
i need to feed my gear disorder.
Old 18th May 2018
  #226
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugtone View Post
Have you A/Bed the two, though? I got an M7 V2 last night and gave it a quick spin. I'm a bit bummed to admit that Verbsuite is very impressive. I can barely tell the difference so far. In fact, except for the plates, I found they almost null in a very interesting way. Basically I hear a quiet copy of the direct signal panning around randomly when I subtract the two verbs with a bit of quiet fizzle behind that. Verbsuite does not nail the Reverb 4000, though.

Not blown away like I was getting a Pro R3 and a PCM70. Looking forward to discovering the M7 magic... any tips?
Hey Eugtone, I use the Verbsuite, Altiverb and Bricasti and I can say, that although you get the verbsuie as a package with Everything bundle( always worth the subscription), to me the M7 allows me to lengthen those verbs and mess around with them. If for instance, you were after a Vangleis style synth reverb( those ones that seem to last for as long as his beard does).....the Bricasti is fab. I've not had the same kind of results with lengthening the reverbs in Verbsuite.
Saying that, When I bought Acousticas' 480 impulses for my Waves Ir1 and Altiverb, there are some gorgeous impulses in there. I do believe they went under.Such a shame, but I guess ripping off software companies will go on for, as long as Vangelis' Beard. Thanks for the Comparison though. Much appreciated for your time and effort. An eye opener Eugtone
Old 18th May 2018
  #227
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Yes, editing is an important strength of algorithmic verbs, for sure. Especially going long: VS only gives you the default verb time on each preset.

My above conclusions were somewhat off. The random autopanning was just the result of how two early reflection time-varying signals cancel each other. It seems like a better take away from my above analysis, having done one more test is:
-V1 bricasti algorithms have a time-invariant tail, so if you turn off early reflection, the remaining portion of the reverb is very well capturing by linear convolution (for a given setting). (a quick test nulled down to -50db or so).
-The early reflections are a strong candidate, then, for what makes the bricasti so special. So if you like a convolution impulse from another source, but it seems a bin linear and dead, maybe pull out some bricasti ER to liven it up?
-If you listen the early reflection alone from a V1 preset, it doesn't pan around randomly - only the difference of two ERs does that.

Not sure that helps or hurts, but I'm a curious guy. I like to know why I like something. I would love to mix only ITB, but yet another piece of outboard gear is staying put. So now where am I going to get the money for some Pulse Pultecs?
Old 23rd July 2018
  #228
Here for the gear
Hello Casey
I have problem to lock my bricasti with my RME uc
with this cable
pro snake AES/EBU SPDIF Cable 3 – Thomann France

the back seams to match only with internal mode in coaxial
the other mode change the rate fore 32000hz automaticaly

and idea to lock correctly the bricasti ?
many thks !!

Last edited by filteron; 23rd July 2018 at 08:19 PM..
Old 23rd July 2018
  #229
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filteron View Post
Hello Casey
I have problem to lock my bricasti with my RME uc
with this cable
pro snake AES/EBU SPDIF Cable 3 – Thomann France

the back seams to match only with internal mode in coaxial
the other mode change the rate fore 32000hz automaticaly

and idea to lock correctly the bricasti ?
many thks !!
I would say it is most appropriate to contact Bricasti directly?
Old 24th July 2018
  #230
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filteron View Post
Hello Casey,
any idea to lock correctly the bricasti ?
many thks !!
Yes, please use a Hosa CDL-313 for this purpose. It will normally work much better than a simple cable.

Also, the M7 will lock to any interface. The interface should always clock internally. The M7 will see the interface clock and will automatically sync to it. There is no mystery.



-Casey
Old 24th July 2018
  #231
Here for the gear
understood !!!
Thks !
and I look forward V3 soon !

Last edited by filteron; 24th July 2018 at 04:05 AM..
Old 10th October 2018
  #232
Gear Nut
 

Hello Casey,
Nice to e-meet you, are you about to announce the arrival of new product as M7 V3 and/or M200 ?
Thanks!
Old 10th October 2018
  #233
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by qslprod View Post
Hello Casey,
Nice to e-meet you, are you about to announce the arrival of new product as M7 V3 and/or M200 ?
Thanks!
I wouldn’t hold ur breath.
Old 10th October 2018
  #234
Gear Addict
 

Nor would I as the funds I put aside for M200s and the V3 upgrade (my best guess on $) have been drawing interest for a few years.

That being said, I am also not willing to spend the funds on other purchases as I am betting they will both be well worth the investment and long wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog007 View Post
I wouldn’t hold ur breath.
Old 25th October 2018
  #235
Gear Head
 
egloss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qslprod View Post
Hello Casey,
Nice to e-meet you, are you about to announce the arrival of new product as M7 V3 and/or M200 ?
Thanks!
Maybe in 2019 some time?
Old 28th October 2018
  #236
Gear Nut
 

Seems like nothing out at AES, maybe NAMM January 2019 ?
I wrote an email to Bricasti but they didn't answer me ...

I won't buy anything till I have news because It's a lot of money and I need VST for recall so USB built in).
I think it's time to release something new.
Old 28th October 2018
  #237
Gear Maniac
 

I heard a terrible rumor the other idea from the guys wiring up our studios.

They heard that Bricasti was shutting down shop.

I sincerely hope this isn’t true!
Old 28th October 2018
  #239
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rami Hashash View Post
I heard a terrible rumor
Actually we are doing better than ever. So no, we are not shutting anything down!

We raised the price of the M7 in early 2018 by 200 dollars to cover the increases in our material costs, which has not had any impact on our sales. We are selling about 70 a month. About the same as always.



-Casey
Old 28th October 2018
  #240
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qslprod View Post
I need VST for recall
Perfect!

Bricasti M7 Control — Exponential Audio - Reverb & Effects Plug-ins
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