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U67 why not? Condenser Microphones
Old 21st February 2014
  #1
U67 why not?

I Know I know

And i have searched but I have not seen a thread that explains why a clone has not been made

we have very in the ballpark 47's 49's C12's from Flea and NU47 Grosser Wagner Bezzneez Etc and

I hear that something in the midrange a filter etc etc with a u67 is hard to replicate or that noone would make a mic today this un-bright... but if people want it .. and we do!

I guess Im saying Flea please make one!!! these guys have made me a believer that the classics can be made today sufficiently with the same kind of magic as the oldies

anything in 2013 that's getting you there?
Old 21st February 2014
  #2
Gear Head
 

Take a look at this:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/8785239-post119.html

and and Dave Thomas' comments about why he made the CM67 as he did in this:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/8930026-post131.html
Old 21st February 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
Wunder has one.

I have a Wunder CM7 that is very close to a few 47's I've used.
Old 21st February 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
Wunder makes cm67, peluso make a 67. Bees jeez has mahalia. I think part of the sound though is the head basket which is a registered design of neumann's which makes it illegal for any other manufacturer to copy it and sell it. So what I did was buy as many parts as I could directly from neumann (including head basket, capsule, body, etc…) and have jjaudio assemble it for me with components as close to original as possible. I think this is the closest you can get to a new u67.
Old 21st February 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Some will say it's the capsule.
This (K67) is indeed a very important part, but this type is used in many microphones and the results are all over the place.

Others will say it's the headbasket.
Well, the TLM103 has the exact same headbasket .......

Then there are some who say it's the tranny that can't be reproduced.
Hmmm...

I say it's the circuit, first and foremost (working in symbiosis with the tranny and the capsule).
And believe it or not, all the so-called clones, until very recently at least, have not used the correct circuit.
Granted, it's not a simple one and it has some tricks up its sleeve, but it can certainly be copied.
Here's a PCB with the correct circuit/schematic that everyone can buy for very little money:
Vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com


Henk
Old 21st February 2014
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Wunder makes cm67, peluso make a 67. Bees jeez has mahalia. I think part of the sound though is the head basket which is a registered design of neumann's which makes it illegal for any other manufacturer to copy it and sell it. So what I did was buy as many parts as I could directly from neumann (including head basket, capsule, body, etc…) and have jjaudio assemble it for me with components as close to original as possible. I think this is the closest you can get to a new u67.
That's an interesting approach. What was the price tag when you were done?
Old 21st February 2014
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
And i have searched but I have not seen a thread that explains why a clone has not been made
Very easy answer.

Contrary to U 47s which are about 70 years old now
Neumann still has rights both on the circuit as well as
on the shape of U 67s (which in fact determined the design form of most modern neumann ldcs...) and will sue anyone who tries to copy.

It´s a PITA that this fabulous mic, which probably is the most versatile tube mic
is so rare and expensive. Let´s have a look a Steven Slate´s results modeling it !
Old 21st February 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Ive worked with u67 a lot in the studio where i started out which had 3 serviced by AG regularily so im familiar with their sound. Personally i got u47lb/u47fet/u77/u87s. When i get vocals to mix with are tracked with harsh and sillibant lowend LDCs my secret weapon is henry olongas u67 nebula library. Sits on slot 1 in pro tools in my template waiting to be activated. Makes every vocal mixable. Ymmv
Old 21st February 2014
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Very easy answer.

Contrary to U 47s which are about 70 years old now
Neumann still has rights both on the circuit as well as
on the shape of U 67s (which in fact determined the design form of most modern neumann ldcs...) and will sue anyone who tries to copy.

It´s a PITA that this fabulous mic, which probably is the most versatile tube mic
is so rare and expensive. Let´s have a look a Steven Slate´s results modeling it !
this is the exact reason. its impossible to copy the mic without the correct head grill. which is legally protected. same goes for u87 etc... not possible.
Old 21st February 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
 

I'll repeat that IMO the importance of the grill is overrrated.
The U67 is so much more than that.
And it's this so much more part where the clones of the past have fallen short.
Old 21st February 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I'll repeat that IMO the importance of the grill is overrrated.
The U67 is so much more than that.
And it's the so much more part where the clones of the past fall short.
nah its not. not saying that the circuit doesnt contribute as well. its a huge factor in a u67. but the head grill is essential to the sound of any mic. its physics.
Old 21st February 2014
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
nah its not. not saying that the circuit doesnt contribute as well. its a huge factor in a u67. but the head grill is essential to the sound of any mic. its physics.
Yes, I know it's physics and I'm not saying it doesn't play a part. I'm just saying that the magic of the U67 is in the circuit. Just listen to a TLM103, which has the same grill. Where's the huge U67 factor?
I own them both BTW.
Old 21st February 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Yes, I know it's physics and I'm not saying it doesn't play a part. I'm just saying that the magic of the U67 is in the circuit. Just listen to a TLM103, which has the same grill.
lets agree that all of it is important if one wants the u67 sound there is no clone. and i think thats great! because no clone ever sounded right to me and personally i think they are all a rip off....
Old 21st February 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Man, you're quicker than I can streamline my posts.


Quote:
lets agree that all of it is important
Agreed.
But some things may be more important than others.


Quote:
no clone ever sounded right to me
Question is, did any one of them have the proper circuit?
I mean, when it doesn't sound quite right, it's easy to notice a somewhat different grill. (Some come fairly close actually.)
But it's far less easy to judge if the correct de-emphasis of the capsule is implemented, if there's negative feedback from the transformer's tertiary winding etc. etc.
Old 21st February 2014
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by CANTE View Post
That's an interesting approach. What was the price tag when you were done?
Over $4k. I'll post clips as soon as I get the mic which should be in about 2-3 weeks.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #16
That's awesome if your getting something you like with software - but I'd prefer to keep this discussion about microphones
Old 22nd February 2014
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
That's awesome if your getting something you like with software - but I'd prefer to keep this discussion about microphones
Sorry, I don't understand.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but could it be you think those green boards are computer cards?
Old 22nd February 2014
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
anything in 2013 that's getting you there?
I think you indeed have missed some of the larger topic threads on this. You may also want to spend some time listening to Warren's extensive shootout from a few months ago of a real 67 compared to the tlm67, peluso tube 67, and whatever others are on that test.

The clones have been around..... I even have my own conversation with Neumann about a 67 tube remake posted around here someplace.

What I like is a combination that most no one talks about.... a tlm67 or Peluso 67 cranked through a Germanium pre. Not your everyday kind of sound.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
lets agree that all of it is important if one wants the u67 sound there is no clone. and i think thats great! because no clone ever sounded right to me and personally i think they are all a rip off....
Your entitled to your opinions
But this thread is about clones

I'm personally grateful for the companies honoring these great designs and making then available to make great records.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I think you indeed have missed some of the larger topic threads on this. You may also want to spend some time listening to Warren's extensive shootout from a few months ago of a real 67 compared to the tlm67, peluso tube 67, and whatever others are on that test.

The clones have been around..... I even have my own conversation with Neumann about a 67 tube remake posted around here someplace.

What I like is a combination that most no one talks about.... a tlm67 or Peluso 67 cranked through a Germanium pre. Not your everyday kind of sound.
Thanks -
I will check that out but-
I'm not getting the consensus that the mics you have mentioned are turning people on like u67 sorry.
If your liking your tools that's great but I'm curious as to an exact clone

Also the 12 251 and 47 clones are getting some wide praise and they are either exact or close to exact depending on parts used or nailing that sound

If the copy right issue were a factor would not wunder and peluso be in legal trouble with sennhieser ?

I think the circuitry has now been cloned in the kits mentioned - so I don't think legal is the issue?
Old 22nd February 2014
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Sorry, I don't understand.
I was referring to the post which was about software nebula etc - which is not this topic
Old 22nd February 2014
  #23
Lives for gear
 

OK, gotcha.

Carry on.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but could it be you think those green boards are computer cards?
They PCB for soldering connections to components - they are part of the guts of the mic.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #25
http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...Guitars/CG-U67

aI think this is the closest I have found now has anyone tried it?
Old 23rd February 2014
  #26
Gear Nut
 

I think
salomonander,

Has it right-- Everyone is Lucky there isn't a Clone to make a Mistake with..


The Great news is real U67's and real capsules are readily available - albeit expensive now.. I am glad I bought mine when they were quasi reasonable -- as always I paid top dollar for a great pair... 7k Which was a lot in 1994.. but now the mint sequential pair would fetch ?? 16-20k ...

as much as it six just buy one and a good spare capsule you'll be set for life with a great mic once on the stand for a session you can literally do 50%+ of you overdubs haha

hand percussion, BV, acoustic anythings, strings, amps, it's one of the few mice that is REALLY worth it as it is decent on anything...

So, If you think 5k is fair for it I say why not find one for 6500-7500 and be done.. you can surely retrieve this extra 2k when you dump it and it is the only way to enjoy "the use" of a U67
Old 23rd February 2014
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Because the fact is that when they WERE 5k a short couple years ago people thought they were too much and didn't jump, Care to guess what happens when you pass on the $6,500- 7k ones now? in 2 years either they will be the same price or a little more -
**And in the case of a 251 -- When and IF people do start making 67 copies it will only solidify the price of authentic ones.. Sorry for pulling out my crystal ball but I think we have seen this happen a few times -

Isn't it amazing that these tools made so long ago are still state of the art transducers?

(hahaha I sound like a vintage broker)
Old 23rd February 2014
  #28
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

There also is the U67 made by Grosser / Voxorama. It's somewhere between a clone and an original, as they are employing original Neumann parts wherever possible - capsule, transformer, body, grill etc.

It's basically a Neumann except that it hasn't been assembled at the Neumann factory. It sells for a little less than vintage mics and it is basically a factory fresh U67 in the vein of Neumann's own 90s reissue. I tried one the other day and it sounded really, really good.
Old 23rd February 2014
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
There also is the U67 made by Grosser / Voxorama. It's somewhere between a clone and an original, as they are employing original Neumann parts wherever possible - capsule, transformer, body, grill etc.

It's basically a Neumann except that it hasn't been assembled at the Neumann factory. It sells for a little less than vintage mics and it is basically a factory fresh U67 in the vein of Neumann's own 90s reissue. I tried one the other day and it sounded really, really good.
this might be a valid option. what capsule, transformer and tube does he use? he is a great tech. didnt like his u47 but maybe this is a lot closer since the tube is actually available.
Old 23rd February 2014
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
Your entitled to your opinions
But this thread is about clones

I'm personally grateful for the companies honoring these great designs and making then available to make great records.
i think you are more or less in trouble then. maybe this a. grosser thing. but even he won't be able to get the head grill right since its protected.
the only valid way to get a u67 is to buy one. maybe buy a ruined u87 and fit one of these new diy neumann pcbs in there? but even then the circuit is protected and the diy guys would have to change things in order to not get sued....

as soon as you choose a third party transformer or capsule the whole thing will be BS again. i hope you know how much an original capsule and transformer are. i can help you with empty u87 bodies if you want to go that route though... good luck

asking for a u67 clone is like saying id like a ferrari but id like to pay no more than for an opel. well good luck. you get what you pay for im afraid.
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