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BAE purchase, first impression
Old 26th February 2014
  #91
Gear Maniac
 

How about on vocals? With the variable attack and one of the auto-release options, I would think that one could make it much less grabby than an 1176, but perhaps the compression character/carnhill after initial attack is less transparent...
Old 26th February 2014
  #92
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

really want to see what a vintage U87 will sound with this pre. Tried it with guitar and I love it! havent tried with bass yet
Old 27th February 2014
  #93
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burns46824's Avatar
We've been using them on vocals. Sound solid and we used them for a couple tracks. We're slightly preferring a Blue Stripe 1176, though.
Old 27th February 2014
  #94
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Thanks.
Preferring the 1176 for what reasons, because it's more traditionally forward?
Old 27th February 2014
  #95
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burns46824's Avatar
Without doing in-depth tests, the Blue Stripe on vox seemed just a tad clearer in the mix, probably because of the forward nature, yes. BAE is great, though...don't get me wrong. And a pair of 10DCs on the 2-buss with the slowest attack setting and the A1 release setting is a fantastic sound! (I wouldn't want to use a pair of Blue Stripe 1176s for that purpose...that's for sure!)
Old 27th February 2014
  #96
Gear Maniac
 

Thank you for your insights.
I have picked up a pair of 10dcs just for that purpose, so I'll try the A1 option.
Old 27th February 2014
  #97
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burns46824's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by js230 View Post
Thank you for your insights.
I have picked up a pair of 10dcs just for that purpose, so I'll try the A1 option.
For sure, man. What you'll notice with that setting on the 10DCs is that your mixes will be a little bit louder with the same peak levels and your vocal will be a little bit more present in the mix and the center image will become very strong. It's an excellent sound...very high quality to my ears.

At times, I am also a fan of not using buss compression...just depends on the type of music. Either way, I like my mixes to peak around -6 if I'm mixing digitally.
Old 28th February 2014
  #98
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Cool. I will keep your experiences in mind! I do tend to go easy on compression overall, especially for drums. More a color/coherence thing.
Old 28th February 2014
  #99
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Yes, I'm not a big compression guy, either.
Old 4th March 2014
  #100
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
And a pair of 10DCs on the 2-buss with the slowest attack setting and the A1 release setting is a fantastic sound!
I also have a pair of 10DCs, going to try this setting. Just curious, on the 2-buss are you using 2:1 or 1.5:1 ratio, limiter not engaged, taking off a few dBs?

I have been preferring an 1176 on vocals slightly also but love the 10dc on drums and 2 buss. Haven't found many uses for the limiter yet.
Old 4th March 2014
  #101
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No limiter. 1.5:1 ratio. Just barely trimming peaks.
Old 5th March 2014
  #102
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

What do you guys think about LTD-2 as a compressor for vocals?
Old 6th March 2014
  #103
I have a couple of these that sound great:
Product 2264E :: Heritage Audio
Old 11th March 2014
  #104
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chet.d's Avatar
 

Lost my head for a minute, pressed buy on a 10dc pair earlier.
Sometimes a dude just needs a new compressor.
Old 13th March 2014
  #105
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more updates. honeymoon period with the 1028 is still not over lollll. Those eqs, are just ridiculous. I also run my synths through it...
Old 21st April 2014
  #106
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superjimmer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rash View Post
Another thing is the B cards on the BAE, I'm guessing for copyright reasons they had to change the layout. I don't think it takes a genius to understand that if you change the traces on a PCB they will sound different.
Holy cow. I gotta say I had no idea that the layout can effect the sound. I do a lot of soldering but I'm not a designer (or even respectably below a genius apparently).

So why do the altered traces effect the sound?
Old 21st April 2014
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superjimmer View Post
Holy cow. I gotta say I had no idea that the layout can effect the sound. I do a lot of soldering but I'm not a designer (or even respectably below a genius apparently).

So why do the altered traces effect the sound?
Hi

Guess I learn something every day also.... if that effect was actually measureable and not a placebo effect.

I don't claim to be a genius either but components are far more likely to affect sound than minor track differences on a pcb.

Old 21st April 2014
  #108
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Guess I learn something every day also.... if that effect was actually measureable and not a placebo effect.

I don't claim to be a genius either but components are far more likely to affect sound than minor track differences on a pcb.


Well don't worry Geoff, you are a genius.

I kinda wish people would stop quoting me on Gearslutz from my other thread at group diy. I don't really wish to participate in a debate.

But that being said, yes there was a audible difference between my EZ 1073 and my AMS 1084/ and 1073 with all the same exact components as well as AMS transformers

Just my personal experience from exploration.
Old 21st April 2014
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rash View Post
Well don't worry Geoff, you are a genius.

I kinda wish people would stop quoting me on Gearslutz from my other thread at group diy. I don't really wish to participate in a debate.

But that being said, yes there was a audible difference between my EZ 1073 and my AMS 1084/ and 1073 with all the same exact components as well as AMS transformers

Just my personal experience from exploration.
Hi Aaron

Yes, I am often quoted and sometimes out of context...

What you may be hearing is what I often refer to as symptoms and faults. The two are very different... and often techs fixing an issue try to fix the first while assuming it's the latter.

With Neve products there are lots of things affect the sound like using aluminium electrolytics instead of tantalum bead, ceramic capacitors instead of polystyrene, compensation components matched for one component but used with another... the list is endless.

I don't doubt you can hear a difference but I could not say for sure what was causing it...

Old 22nd April 2014
  #110
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superjimmer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rash View Post
Well don't worry Geoff, you are a genius.

I kinda wish people would stop quoting me on Gearslutz from my other thread at group diy. I don't really wish to participate in a debate.

But that being said, yes there was a audible difference between my EZ 1073 and my AMS 1084/ and 1073 with all the same exact components as well as AMS transformers

Just my personal experience from exploration.
Wait this doesn't make sense. Your original statement on this forum was essentially that it doesn't take a genius to know that different traces/paths sound different.

This indicates that it is common knowledge in my book.

Are you saying this is not the case, that you have no basis for that statement other than this one instance/personal experience?
Old 22nd April 2014
  #111
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by superjimmer View Post
Wait this doesn't make sense. Your original statement on this forum was essentially that it doesn't take a genius to know that different traces/paths sound different.

This indicates that it is common knowledge in my book.

Are you saying this is not the case, that you have no basis for that statement other than this one instance/personal experience?
It is common electronics knowledge that when designing a PCB layout that the layout will affect the performance of the circuit.

Just ask Avedis, or give this article a read http://ams-neve.com/sites/amsneve/fi...1073review.pdf (theres allot of false info in it but I do agree that layout affects sound. In case you don't read it, I will post it here.

Published by EQ magazine in 2004
"The first thing I noticed as I placed them side by side was the similarity of the
printed circuit board (PCB) traces. A big aspect of preamp design, which some
clone-makers overlook, is component placement and PCB design. When copying
an old design, you can use the same components in the same circuit but lay out the
PCB differently and end up with a unit that sounds totally different. The routing and
size of the signal traces have that much influence on the sound. Conversations with
many well known preamp designers has confirmed this to me. So I was delighted to
see that the PC boards looked absolutely identical, apart from the color of the
board material"
Old 25th April 2014
  #112
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superjimmer's Avatar
I think you have me mixed up with someone else, I have never heard of you or quoted you outside of this thread. I was just amazed by the idea that the same components would somehow sound different if the traces between are longer or curved differently.

You said it doesn't take a genius to know ... and it turns out it was news to Geoff Tanner. So then you say you listened with your own ears and I asked if there was more evidence.
Old 25th April 2014
  #113
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Hi

Just chiming in to give my perspective....

One has to avoid generalisations especially from folk with partial knowledge on the topic.

You can't just say different track = different sounds without clarifying and justifying the statement.

Track width changes, especially on tracks carrying current can cause microscopic issues for small changes or larger ones for big changes.

Making ground planes clumsily, like making a complete loop around a section, can work like an antenna and pick up an emf field extremely effectively. Right angles in tracks were famous for trapping etching in the corner that eat into the track... etc.

But if we are talking about a vintage Neve single sided PCB, where identical components are in pretty near identical locations, with similar width PCB track but just fashioned in a slightly different path... curves instead of straight lines or whatever..

In my very humble opinion there might be many other reasons for units sounding different but small track changes isn't one of them.

Old 25th April 2014
  #114
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Respectfully, I found measurable differences and audible differences by bypassing PCB tracks on the EZ1073 and wiring straight off components instead.

Every circuit board is different. I had a long hour conversation with Avedis on the phone about this exact topic. Who would also agree...Circuit board layout changes the sound. At least in my case from what I've learned.

Like I said, I don't wish to participate in a debate... I can post measurable differences from the EZ1073 with nothing changed except for wiring off components bypassing certain areas of the PCB. Big difference.

I'm not speaking of the BAE cards, those are so close to original I highly doubt one could hear a difference. I'm simply stating, when you take a 1073 circuit and put it on a PCB entirely, you bet it will change the sound.

It makes no difference to me weather people want to believe this or not. I have already found out for myself through about a year of testing and measuring.

I attached frequency response graphs of my EZ1073, one stock, then the same unit wired up bypassing certain parts of the PCB and another sweep of my AMS 1084 for reference.

All into a 681R termination.

There is clearly a difference.
Attached Thumbnails
BAE purchase, first impression-ez1073-mic-sweep.jpg   BAE purchase, first impression-ez1073-sweep-aaron-rash-mod.jpg   BAE purchase, first impression-ams-neve-1084-mic-sweep.jpg  
Old 25th April 2014
  #115
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rash View Post
Respectfully, I found measurable differences and audible differences by bypassing PCB tracks on the EZ1073 and wiring straight off components instead.

Every circuit board is different. I had a long hour conversation with Avedis about this exact topic. Circuit board layout changes the sound. At least in my case from what I've learned.

Like I said, I don't wish to participate in a debate... I can post measurable differences from the EZ1073 with nothing changed except for wiring off components bypassing certain areas of the PCB. Big difference.

I'm not speaking of the BAE cards, those are so close to original I highly doubt one could hear a difference. I'm simply stating, when you take a 1073 circuit and put it on a PCB entirely, you bet it will change the sound.

It makes no difference to me weather people want to believe this or not. I have already found out for myself.

I attached frequency response graphs of my EZ1073, one stock, then the same unit wired up bypassing certain parts of the PCB and another sweep of my AMS 1084 for reference.

All into a 681R termination.

There is clearly a difference.
Hi Aaron

That is precisely my point that I believe you missed to go through this bother in replying...

The thread is about BAE equipment and my point was about copying the individual pcbs and how minor differences make no differences in sound.

Now if you change the topic to the wildly different throwing all the components in a heap on an untidy clone PCB... then yes, of course you would hear a difference.

I have seen some horrible attempts at knocking off a 1073 and nothing would surprise me

But my point was geared towards folk, like BAE, that look almost exactly like Neve units but the tracks may differ slightly

We are comparing apples and oranges... or worse in the case of some home built abominations

http://www.sylvainmoreau.com/sylvain...MG_0217-le.jpg

PS If this is the beast... where are the tantalums, where are the polystyrene, etc., etc

heh
Old 25th April 2014
  #116
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi Aaron

That is precisely my point that I believe you missed to go through this bother in replying...

The thread is about BAE equipment and my point was about copying the individual pcbs and how minor differences make no differences in sound.

Now if you change the topic to the wildly different throwing all the components in a heap on an untidy clone PCB... then yes, of course you would hear a difference.

I have seen some horrible attempts at knocking off a 1073 and nothing would surprise me

But my point was geared towards folk, like BAE, that look almost exactly like Neve units but the tracks may differ slightly

We are comparing apples and oranges... or worse in the case of some home built abominations

heh
Got it!

Sorry to Jimmer, I thought you were quoting me from another thread (witch happens to be about the EZ1073 PCB )

Yes the I would have to agree the changes in the BAE layout is not enough to change the sound. But I thought we were talking about circuit boards in general and that was my point.

Sorry for the confusion.

I am a musician not a electronics engineer at the end of the day, but the entire reason I got into this stuff was because all the PCB clones I heard sounded so different it took me a long time to figure out why.

That's where the notion of PCB layouts came into play and how important it is to do it correctly.
Old 25th April 2014
  #117
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Yep, I totally agree. That is why the EZ units I built were to original spec as close as I could do. Polys, tants, BC184C BC caps etc... And I still hated the way it sounded until I bypassed a bunch of PCB.
Attached Thumbnails
BAE purchase, first impression-photo.jpg  
Old 19th July 2015
  #118
Gear Head
I have heard and recorded through a pair of 10dcs and bad 312s and I own a dual mpf and a 1028. All BAE stuff is absolutely amazing! This is as good as it gets. The 10dcs can be grabby if you want them to, especially on 2 bus and I find that exciting on the pop music I produce. They are also amazing for tracking pretty much anything, especially vocals, bass and guitar. All BAE stuff has a very signature thick,creamy and silky sound to me. The 1028 is just another beast entirely. Comparing the 1028 to the mpg just engaging the eq while flat on the 1028 takes it to another level passed the mpf. Boosting 16 or 20k will get you the most beautiful, harmonious and no glassy highs I've ever gotten on a vocal. I absolutely love their stuff and will certainly be buying a pair of 10dcs in the future.
Old 19th July 2015
  #119
Lives for gear
I have an original Brent Averill "Made from Neve" pair of 1272s. I don't understand when people say that preamps are an overrated part of the chain. The recordings that come out of this thing are record ready no matter what mic, it just catches everything and colors the room reflections so nicely.

As for people not liking the 312s, the trick to these is to calibrate them. Usually you need NO gain at all. They are very hot preamps.
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