The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
PSI A25-M vs ATC SCM25A Pro Studio Monitors
Old 3rd February 2014
  #1
Here for the gear
 

PSI A25-M vs ATC SCM25A Pro

What are the differences between these two monitors?

I find the ATC a bit harsh to my ears in the upper mids. Can´t really listen them loud at all. Even at low volumes I tend to get ear fatigue. Do they have lift in the 2-4kHz area? I also don´t hear so much "air" from 8-10kHz upwards, but I guess that´s not so necessary when mixing? They are very detailed though, sometimes maybe even too detailed, so I find myself "over mixing" and lost in the details.

Would the PSI A25-M 3-ways be more flat meaning no upper mid boost? Maybe a bit more easier and enjoyable to listen to and less ear fatigue?
Old 3rd February 2014
  #2
Old 3rd February 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Hjelmevold's Avatar
natpub, while the thread that your link leads to, indeed contains one person's views on both the ATC SCM25A Pro and the PSI A25-M, those impressions are hidden in between 1500 posts!

Having mixed on both SCM25As and PSI monitors, I'd say that one advantage of the ATCs is having a very high contrast between poor and good mixes. They can sound rude or musical depending on the source material, and they clearly tell you what to do. And one advantage of PSI monitors lies in their straightforward and unobscured definition of time and space in your mix, letting you peek into whatever area you wish to examine.

Both ATCs and PSIs sound to me like they have a relatively flat frequency response - if there is any boost in the upper mids or low treble, it must be very slight, and I can't say that I've experienced much ear fatigue. I usually mix at around 85dBA, if that's a relevant detail.

I wouldn't say that PSIs are any more "enjoyable" to listen to than ATCs, in fact I'd say that ATCs have greater potential for sounding enjoyable.
Old 3rd February 2014
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
Having mixed on both SCM25As and PSI monitors, I'd say that one advantage of the ATCs is having a very high contrast between poor and good mixes. They can sound rude or musical depending on the source material, and they clearly tell you what to do.
This I can relate to. They are indeed very accurate (ruthless), but I´m not still 100% sure the ATCs are the right monitors for me. There´s something weird in the sound I can´t put my finger on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
And one advantage of PSI monitors lies in their straightforward and unobscured definition of time and space in your mix, letting you peek into whatever area you wish to examine.
I don´t know really what this means?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
Both ATCs and PSIs sound to me like they have a relatively flat frequency response - if there is any boost in the upper mids or low treble, it must be very slight, and I can't say that I've experienced much ear fatigue.
Or maybe the other speakers (and headphones) I find more enjoyable to listen to have the upper mids scooped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
I usually mix at around 85dBA, if that's a relevant detail.
Wow, that´s pretty loud mixing level? I usually try to keep around 40-60dBA. If I wanna check loud, I go about 70dBA max and that´s loud for me. My SPL meter is though approx 50cm distance and 30cm below from the soft dome mid driver. If I put it near the cone I get approx 10-15dBA more. My ears are 130cm from the speakers, maybe that´s too near?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
I wouldn't say that PSIs are any more "enjoyable" to listen to than ATCs, in fact I'd say that ATCs have greater potential for sounding enjoyable.
Okay thanks, maybe I just need to hear the PSI myself. Which one do you prefer yourself and why?
Old 3rd February 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Hjelmevold's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
I don´t know really what this [description of PSI sound] means?
Have you ever heard DSP corrected speaker systems? It's a bit like that, in the sense that the whole sound stage has been "cleaned up" - only that it's all done using analog filters and not DSP, so you don't hear any nasty effects such as latency, pre-echo, or the need to sit in the perfect sweet spot. The impulse response of PSI speakers is something truly unique (almost on par with electrostatic speakers), and the phase response is flat all the way from the low mids and up.

Quote:
Okay thanks, maybe I just need to hear the PSI myself. Which one do you prefer yourself and why?
The ATC SCM25As that I have mixed on, were in a studio that I had access to for a while. For the last two years I have been using a pair of PSI A215-Ms. In the bottom octaves they are perhaps a little sluggish compared to some of the pricier alternatives (Barefoot / Geithain ...), but from 200Hz and above they are unlike anything else I've heard.
Old 3rd February 2014
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
I find the ATC a bit harsh to my ears in the upper mids. Can´t really listen them loud at all. Even at low volumes I tend to get ear fatigue. Do they have lift in the 2-4kHz area? I also don´t hear so much "air" from 8-10kHz upwards, but I guess that´s not so necessary when mixing? They are very detailed though, sometimes maybe even too detailed, so I find myself "over mixing" and lost in the details.
They are very very detailed speakers, especially throughout the mid range. I think they are extremely "fast" throughout the entire spectrum. For whatever it may be worth, I haven't heard any harshness on them, that I couldn't fix by engineering the mix. They are very reveling speakers.

For me, that is kinda the whole point of such unforgivingly brutal monitors. To Tell me where I suck! Except that I find them very pleasing to monitor for long hours. Sort of a "We're not kidding" calling card, from ATC. Though I don't crank them up much, actually you can use these very low and hear every little bit, as you say. And I find their frequency response very balanced, for my ear, in the rooms I've used them in.

But anyway, monitors are SUPER personal, best to just try a few in the room your going to use them in. Do some projects. See what translates, See what keeps you flowing the work. In my experience this is a BIG part of the math. All the speakers couple differently in each room and to that length - Each Person too. Tie that all into aesthetic taste and we have defined the unknowable!

At any rate, Good luck with you search!
Finding the perfect set, can be a daunting task!
Old 3rd February 2014
  #7
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

I wish I had the ATC to compare to, but I can tell you that the PSI Audio A25-M delivers a "wall of sound" for one thing. It's the widest bandwidth single speaker we've ever heard in our place. Bass is clear and effortless on all the PSI models.

The PSI stuff is a system of analog electronics that is specifically designed to interact with the drivers in a unique way that means you hear the music and not as much of a "listening to a speaker" sound. To us that means an instantly recognizable sound that you've heard averaged on other systems your whole life, when listening to reference material you know.

Discerning individual elements like compression and EQ takes no thought or concentration, you just hear it. Their dynamic range is incredible whether you are listening low, medium or flat out cranked (we could not turn them all the way up in our place as it would have blown our ears out, yet the true dynamics of the music were still intact).

Hard to describe speakers for sure. For me the A25M means no guessing in any part of the frequency range due to their wide bandwidth, not "hearing" the crossover, that insane transient reproduction and uber detail all without relying on harsh high frequencies.

War
Old 4th February 2014
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
Have you ever heard DSP corrected speaker systems? It's a bit like that, in the sense that the whole sound stage has been "cleaned up" - only that it's all done using analog filters and not DSP, so you don't hear any nasty effects such as latency, pre-echo, or the need to sit in the perfect sweet spot. The impulse response of PSI speakers is something truly unique (almost on par with electrostatic speakers), and the phase response is flat all the way from the low mids and up.
That´s very interesting. I´ve heard some Genelec DSP systems, but didn´t really like how they sounded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
The ATC SCM25As that I have mixed on, were in a studio that I had access to for a while. For the last two years I have been using a pair of PSI A215-Ms. In the bottom octaves they are perhaps a little sluggish compared to some of the pricier alternatives (Barefoot / Geithain ...), but from 200Hz and above they are unlike anything else I've heard.
Now I just got to hear them!
Old 4th February 2014
  #9
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
That´s very interesting. I´ve heard some Genelec DSP systems, but don´t really like how they sounded.
I don't know about you, but even the thought of audio going through digital conversion and then software based processing before it hits yours ears seems....outdated as soon as you buy them (nevermind the effect it could have on the sound with these extra processes).

All analog speakers for me, thank you!

War
Old 5th February 2014
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I don't know about you, but even the thought of audio going through digital conversion and then software based processing before it hits yours ears seems....outdated as soon as you buy them (nevermind the effect it could have on the sound with these extra processes).

All analog speakers for me, thank you!

War
I´m kinda the same way.
Old 24th May 2014
  #11
Here for the gear
 

I just gave the PSI A25 a road test this week. They are amongst the most precise and revealing speakers I have used to mix on. Great job PSI......
Old 25th May 2014
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
What are the differences between these two monitors?

I find the ATC a bit harsh to my ears in the upper mids. Can´t really listen them loud at all. Even at low volumes I tend to get ear fatigue. Do they have lift in the 2-4kHz area? I also don´t hear so much "air" from 8-10kHz upwards, but I guess that´s not so necessary when mixing? They are very detailed though, sometimes maybe even too detailed, so I find myself "over mixing" and lost in the details.

Would the PSI A25-M 3-ways be more flat meaning no upper mid boost? Maybe a bit more easier and enjoyable to listen to and less ear fatigue?
The ATC's do not have a rise in 2-4K (or anywhere) and they are flat to beyond 10K. Any harshness is coming from your source, your audio chain or your room. You may not be able to change it easily- but the point of ATC is to reveal those issues to you. This is no way a critique of you, as every room and system has issues. For example, reflection of the 25s off a large console face can cause harshness- they should be up and over the bridge on stands.

Brad
Old 4th May 2015
  #13
SEA
Lives for gear
 
SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I wish I had the ATC to compare to, but I can tell you that the PSI Audio A25-M delivers a "wall of sound" for one thing. It's the widest bandwidth single speaker we've ever heard in our place. Bass is clear and effortless on all the PSI models.

The PSI stuff is a system of analog electronics that is specifically designed to interact with the drivers in a unique way that means you hear the music and not as much of a "listening to a speaker" sound. To us that means an instantly recognizable sound that you've heard averaged on other systems your whole life, when listening to reference material you know.

Discerning individual elements like compression and EQ takes no thought or concentration, you just hear it. Their dynamic range is incredible whether you are listening low, medium or flat out cranked (we could not turn them all the way up in our place as it would have blown our ears out, yet the true dynamics of the music were still intact).

Hard to describe speakers for sure. For me the A25M means no guessing in any part of the frequency range due to their wide bandwidth, not "hearing" the crossover, that insane transient reproduction and uber detail all without relying on harsh high frequencies.

War
So would a pair of PSI A25-M be better than going with the PSI A21-M with a sub?

Thanks!
Old 4th May 2015
  #14
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post
So would a pair of PSI A25-M be better than going with the PSI A21-M with a sub?

Thanks!
Depending on the room, positioning, etc.

War
Old 5th May 2015
  #15
Lives for gear
For info, my room is 15 m2 and it's been better for me to have 2 PSI A21+ SUB than PSI A25. I don't like to be "dominate" by the sound and this wall of sound of the PSI A25 in a small room ( less than 20m2) can destroy our discernment or critical listening which leads to bad decisions. PSI A21+ Sub is more easy to work with in small room.
From now I'm with with Amphion two18, totally perfect for critical listening and room friendly.
Old 5th May 2015
  #16
Lives for gear
All rooms are little without acoustic treatement well done.
Old 5th May 2015
  #17
SEA
Lives for gear
 
SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by priko View Post
For info, my room is 15 m2 and it's been better for me to have 2 PSI A21+ SUB than PSI A25. I don't like to be "dominate" by the sound and this wall of sound of the PSI A25 in a small room ( less than 20m2) can destroy our discernment or critical listening which leads to bad decisions. PSI A21+ Sub is more easy to work with in small room.
From now I'm with with Amphion two18, totally perfect for critical listening and room friendly.
How long is your room? I'm currently in a 12x12 ft. room myself, but looking to expand it to 30x12 ft. room in the near future.
Old 5th May 2015
  #18
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

I would go so far as to say the PSI Audio A21M is fine without a sub in relatively small rooms.

A 30' long room I would definitely go for the A25M if you can get there!

War
Old 6th May 2015
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
I would go so far as to say the PSI Audio A21M is fine without a sub in relatively small rooms.

A 30' long room I would definitely go for the A25M if you can get there!

War
I agree. I have the A21M in a fairly small room and they are outstanding. For a 30x12 room, the A25M would be close to bliss.
Old 6th May 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Miles Flint's Avatar
 

I have had the pleasure to test all the PSI's and I've worked with the A21's+mono sub for about one year and then got A25-225 System with 2 subs. Both models work well without a sub in smaller rooms, but both models were less difficult to set up (bass/corners/walls) as I expected. Both are outstanding, in either combination with or without the sub(s). Which one the better solution is, is depending on room-size, distance to the listener and of course purpose.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump