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Anyone try different opamps in a 1608? 500 Series EQ\'s
Old 12th January 2014
  #1
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noah90210's Avatar
Anyone try different opamps in a 1608?

Curious about experiences with opamps OTHER than API 2520s.
Anyone?
Old 12th January 2014
  #2
No. Been pondering the same question here for a while. I think RB has Firlottes in his master section. I'd love to try some 1122s in a couple of channels.
Old 12th January 2014
  #3
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GSOUND's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah90210 View Post
Curious about experiences with opamps OTHER than API 2520s.
Anyone?
I´ve tried several in both the mixbus summing and channels. Scott Lieber Blue Dots, Purple KDJ4, GAR2520 and Inward Connections (Firlottes) VF600. The VF600 are by far the best sound I´ve heard in the mixbus summing. More headroom, depth, lo end warmth and softness compared to modern api 2520´s. Love them! Really gives the sound more life

The other ones are all great. Really liked the GAR2520 in a couple of channels. The Scott Lieber Blue dots in channels are also nice. A tad softer than modern Api 2520´s. The Purples are nice to. A bit opener in the top end, and with a bit less punchy low end. More coloured midrange compared to VF600´s.

Swapping op amps in the mixbus summing stages ( ACA and booster ) makes for a more significant difference compared to changing in channels. That´s much more subtle I find.
Old 12th January 2014
  #4
(I love that we have a little 1608 users club going here! )
Old 13th January 2014
  #5
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I should have posted that I actually had Firlotte vf600s installed in the mix bus and booster yesterday. I haven't mixed on it yet but spent the day with it tracking vocals and rough mixing the song we were working on. I did notice I had to adjust existing EQ settings for the rough. What was a decent rough mix the day before was too big on the bottom and a bit too bright on top. My unscientific conclusion was that the vf600s extended the top a bottom a bit thus necessitating the EQ adjustment. Stoked.

While we're here, is anyone using the pmix automation?

How about the aux return fader mod?
Old 13th January 2014
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
(I love that we have a little 1608 users club going here! )
Yeah!! We needed one right?
Old 13th January 2014
  #7
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Where can we buy the Firlotte vf600s ? They're not offered on the Inward Connections site
Old 13th January 2014
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
Where can we buy the Firlotte vf600s ? They're not offered on the Inward Connections site
I used the contact form on the site. Steve wrote me back same day. He's a REALLY nice guy. White wizard. FWIW the install was quite tricky. It required some real fenageling because the 1608 master module is SO tightly packed. I don't know if everyone had trouble but this was not easy, even with the socketing, though no soldering was needed.
It did seem like the monitor out amps are soldered and not socketed though.
Old 13th January 2014
  #9
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RoundBadge's Avatar
I tried some gar 2520's on the individual channels..a little better but not sure it would be worth the cost for all.haven't tried red dots or V600's there but would be interested to try it.
The V600's on the master buss and mon's were imo, worth it.
Old 13th January 2014
  #10
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I don't have a 1608, but I do have an 8200 & 8200A. I could swap the 2520 in the 8200A to see what it does. Thanks for the info.
Old 24th February 2014
  #11
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VF600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks View Post
I don't have a 1608, but I do have an 8200 & 8200A. I could swap the 2520 in the 8200A to see what it does. Thanks for the info.
Thats what I am doing now with the api 7800 master section. I ordered 2 - VF600, Cant wait for the results!
Old 25th February 2014
  #12
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No mention of Scott Lieber Red Dots yet? I guess in relation to the Blues they're suppose to be of a more "vintage" sound. I have them in CAPI pres, but haven't heard of anyone trying em in a 1608.
Old 26th February 2014
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSOUND View Post
Swapping op amps in the mixbus summing stages ( ACA and booster ) makes for a more significant difference compared to changing in channels. That´s much more subtle I find.
Hey GSound, do you remember how many 2520's need to be replaced in those modules? I checked the schematics and it looks like 8 for the 168B Master Module and 10 for the 268B Program ACA Booster Module. Does that sound right? I've been thinking about swapping for a good while, and I'm still so happy with my 5500 EQ's VF600 swap and the other Inward Connections gear I have. It feels like time. - Paul
Old 26th February 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Hey GSound, do you remember how many 2520's need to be replaced in those modules? I checked the schematics and it looks like 8 for the 168B Master Module and 10 for the 268B Program ACA Booster Module. Does that sound right? I've been thinking about swapping for a good while, and I'm still so happy with my 5500 EQ's VF600 swap and the other Inward Connections gear I have. It feels like time. - Paul
yes.
I did 6 in my 268B module,4 for booster/aca and 2 for main control room out.
I didn't do the other CR outs because I use an Avocet for other sources/speaker switching.
I also didn't do any in the subs 168B module.probably a good idea though.
Old 26th February 2014
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
yes.
I did 6 in my 268B module,4 for booster/aca and 2 for main control room out.
I didn't do the other CR outs because I use an Avocet for other sources/speaker switching.
I also didn't do any in the subs 168B module.probably a good idea though.
Thanks for the reply RB. I appreciate it. Are you happy having chosen that number to replace or do you consider doing the rest? It will be a pretty penny for 18 VF600's. - Paul
Old 26th February 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Thanks for the reply RB. I appreciate it. Are you happy having chosen that number to replace or do you consider doing the rest? It will be a pretty penny for 18 VF600's. - Paul
I'm cool with what I've got.you could mod until the cows come home until its not even an API anymore lol.
it opens up the mix buss/headroom a bit .
Old 26th February 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I'm cool with what I've got.you could mod until the cows come home until its not even an API anymore lol.
it opens up the mix buss/headroom a bit .
Thanks. Cheers. - Paul
Old 26th February 2014
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Thanks. Cheers. - Paul
glad to help!
Old 1st March 2014
  #19
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I've got 10 VF600's on the way some time next week. Even Steve said that it's crazy cramped in there, and I am going to have to be careful while bending a couple of components to make them fit. Yikes. Still, I'm excited. - Paul
Old 1st March 2014
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
I've got 10 VF600's on the way some time next week. Even Steve said that it's crazy cramped in there, and I am going to have to be careful while bending a couple of components to make them fit. Yikes. Still, I'm excited. - Paul
Be careful .very careful.
you can pull the module apart and the transformers fall out and its a mess to get it back together.
I messed up one of the CR switches trying to get the module back into the console.
api was adamant about taping the trannies into place when pulling the cards apart
at on point I had API tech on the phone with a soldering iron in my hand.
Old 1st March 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Be careful .very careful.
you can pull the module apart and the transformers fall out and its a mess to get it back together.
I messed up one of the CR switches trying to get the module back into the console.
api was adamant about taping the trannies into place when pulling the cards apart
at on point I had API tech on the phone with a soldering iron in my hand.
Wow. Thanks for the heads up. Do you think I should call API in advance for advice? What did you have to solder, the CR switch issue? - Paul
Old 1st March 2014
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSOUND View Post
I´ve tried several in both the mixbus summing and channels. Scott Lieber Blue Dots, Purple KDJ4, GAR2520 and Inward Connections (Firlottes) VF600. The VF600 are by far the best sound I´ve heard in the mixbus summing. More headroom, depth, lo end warmth and softness compared to modern api 2520´s. Love them! Really gives the sound more life

The other ones are all great. Really liked the GAR2520 in a couple of channels. The Scott Lieber Blue dots in channels are also nice. A tad softer than modern Api 2520´s. The Purples are nice to. A bit opener in the top end, and with a bit less punchy low end. More coloured midrange compared to VF600´s.

Swapping op amps in the mixbus summing stages ( ACA and booster ) makes for a more significant difference compared to changing in channels. That´s much more subtle I find.
Old 1st March 2014
  #23
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Wow. Thanks for the heads up. Do you think I should call API in advance for advice? What did you have to solder, the CR switch issue? - Paul
I would talk to them first.
I started the process on my own then was smart enough to call them when things started getting weird.
you have to de/resolder some of the opamps.
some are hard to get to.when you split the module everything fits together like a tight little puzzle.if you don't tape the transformers in they fall out and are a nightmare to get the whole module fit in right again.
Old 1st March 2014
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I would talk to them first.
I started the process on my own then was smart enough to call them when things started getting weird.
you have to de/resolder some of the opamps.
some are hard to get to.when you split the module everything fits together like a tight little puzzle.if you don't tape the transformers in they fall out and are a nightmare to get the whole module fit in right again.
Woah. Good advice. Thanks man!
Old 1st March 2014
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I would talk to them first.
I started the process on my own then was smart enough to call them when things started getting weird.
you have to de/resolder some of the opamps.
some are hard to get to.when you split the module everything fits together like a tight little puzzle.if you don't tape the transformers in they fall out and are a nightmare to get the whole module fit in right again.
Thanks again RoundBadge. I appreciate your advice. - Paul
Old 1st March 2014
  #26
Gear Nut
 
GSOUND's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Hey GSound, do you remember how many 2520's need to be replaced in those modules? I checked the schematics and it looks like 8 for the 168B Master Module and 10 for the 268B Program ACA Booster Module. Does that sound right? I've been thinking about swapping for a good while, and I'm still so happy with my 5500 EQ's VF600 swap and the other Inward Connections gear I have. It feels like time. - Paul
Hi Paul

You need 6 op amps. 2 in the aca, 2 in the booster and 2 in the main speaker outputs. I haven´t changed the ones in the speaker outputs as one of them is soldered directly to the pcb and that would be a a bitch to swap.

I´ve been using the vf600´s in the summing for a while now. They sound quite a bit warmer and more relaxed than api´s. Sometimes that´s a great thing, but there are occasions where I prefer the forwardness of the api´s. I´ve even considered doing a mod to my console where I could have a switch to change between the two I spoke with a tech that said it could be fairly simple to do so. Maybe I will
Old 1st March 2014
  #27
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I've tried a whole bunch in the mix bus (aca and booster, didn't bother with the speaker outs since they're not in the print path), as well as in the pres. Purple KDJ4s, VF600s, GAR, a whole pile of others I'm just blanking on at the moment. In the end I just stuck with the APIs. Each type were subtly different, but none of them were significantly better, so why mess with a good thing? The desk sounds great as it is. I moved on to focusing my energy making sure everything else in the chain sounds as good as the desk.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #28
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Marc, it's great to have you chime in. I have been drooling over your studio for a while
Is there a track from your website player you feel represents well the overall sound of the 1608?
Old 4th March 2014
  #29
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666666's Avatar
Of all the available op-amps out there, which might be considered the "cleanest", "fastest", "tightest" and overall most neutral?
Old 14th March 2014
  #30
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I did the mod over the weekend, and I've been messing with it for the last couple days on some live recordings. So far, I am really happy with it. I feel like it cleared up some mud, tightened up the bass and extended the highs like others have mentioned. I'd say that the sound became a bit more modern and balanced to my ears which IMO allows the console to shine on more diverse material which is great. It's really interesting to me, because I've become very used to tweaking EQ a certain way to get the board to sound the way I needed. Before, I tended to make larger strokes to get things sitting the way I wanted them. Now, I'm noticing that I hear changes throughout the frequency spectrum a lot easier, and I'm not having to be as aggressive with EQ to get things right. It still has the API character, but it sounds less congested now. I'm very happy about that. 2 thumbs up. - Paul

Ps - thanks for the helpful advice gentlemen. I appreciate it
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