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Anyone try different opamps in a 1608?
Old 14th March 2014
  #31
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RoundBadge's Avatar
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Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
I did the mod over the weekend, and I've been messing with it for the last couple days on some live recordings. So far, I am really happy with it. I feel like it cleared up some mud, tightened up the bass and extended the highs like others have mentioned. I'd say that the sound became a bit more modern and balanced to my ears which IMO allows the console to shine on more diverse material which is great. It's really interesting to me, because I've become very used to tweaking EQ a certain way to get the board to sound the way I needed. Before, I tended to make larger strokes to get things sitting the way I wanted them. Now, I'm noticing that I hear changes throughout the frequency spectrum a lot easier, and I'm not having to be as aggressive with EQ to get things right. It still has the API character, but it sounds less congested now. I'm very happy about that. 2 thumbs up. - Paul

Ps - thanks for the helpful advice gentlemen. I appreciate it
Yay! glad it worked out.
everyone I've turned onto this has dug it.
I'm really happy I did it too.
Old 14th March 2014
  #32
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Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Yay! glad it worked out.
everyone I've turned onto this has dug it.
I'm really happy I did it too.
Good stuff for sure thanks RoundBadge
Old 14th March 2014
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Now, I'm noticing that I hear changes throughout the frequency spectrum a lot easier, and I'm not having to be as aggressive with EQ to get things right. It still has the API character, but it sounds less congested now. I'm very happy about that. 2 thumbs up. - Paul
Another user has posted that the sound is more relaxed and not
as punchy / forward as the API's by using the Inward op amps.

Have you found this too with the change ?
Old 14th March 2014
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riteup3 View Post
Marc, it's great to have you chime in. I have been drooling over your studio for a while
Is there a track from your website player you feel represents well the overall sound of the 1608?
Thanks!

They're all mixed on the desk, and to be honest at this point we use the desk preamps 95% of the time as well. The Neves only get patched in on special occasions, and maybe the OP6. All our other pres have kinda fallen by the way side...

A desk is just a tool, and good tools give you more options, not less, so it's hard to point to a track and say "that's the 1608 sound!" It's pretty damn good at making all sorts of sounds.
Old 14th March 2014
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul EQ View Post
Another user has posted that the sound is more relaxed and not
as punchy / forward as the API's by using the Inward op amps.

Have you found this too with the change ?
I would not say that there is any lack of punch. The bass frequencies just seem more tight and defined which I'd say helps my mixing aesthetic. I would say that it is less forward in the mids though. It seems a bit more balanced overall to me really. It's pretty much what I expected based on my experience swapping my 5500's 2520's for the VF600's a year or so ago. I posted a thread a while back with some audio clips that might give you a helpful example. I think it's called "API 5500 2520 vs Inward Connections VF600." The night before I swapped the op amps, I did a rough mix of one of my band practices , and after the swap, the mix wasn't balanced the same way. So, I expect that you will need to approach your mix a bit differently with the new amps in there. My band was pleasantly surprised by the difference between mixes, and they said there was definite improvement. Granted, since things didn't match up, I remixed it, but it is what it is. - Paul
Old 14th March 2014
  #36
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Also, if you don't like the VF600's you can always put the 2520's back in. I didn't mess with any of the soldered ones. I just replaced the program R&L op amps. Pretty easy, although, it's quite cramped in there. - Paul
Old 14th March 2014
  #37
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Guys may I suggest pier Pablo abates Opamps? Some are calling them the best Opamps on the planet. He has a app992 which is not a copy of a 2520 (although he does one) - MEs are taking out their Opamps and changing them with piers. I've got 2 of his germanium preamps - crazy good.
Old 17th March 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcocet View Post
Thanks!

They're all mixed on the desk, and to be honest at this point we use the desk preamps 95% of the time as well. The Neves only get patched in on special occasions, and maybe the OP6. All our other pres have kinda fallen by the way side...

A desk is just a tool, and good tools give you more options, not less, so it's hard to point to a track and say "that's the 1608 sound!" It's pretty damn good at making all sorts of sounds.
I really love the sonics of those tracks so I appreciate your answer
Old 6th June 2014
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffmachine View Post
Also, if you don't like the VF600's you can always put the 2520's back in. I didn't mess with any of the soldered ones. I just replaced the program R&L op amps. Pretty easy, although, it's quite cramped in there. - Paul
I figured I'd update this thread. After using the VF600's for a couple months, I decided to go back to the 2520's and see what I thought. My drummer had also mentioned that he liked the drum sound from the API mixes better. So, I switched the 2520's back in.

One thing I found interesting is that in my experience with the VF600's, they had made some elements of the mix easier to achieve and others slightly harder. For example, I felt that the bass was automatically tighter, and the high's were more open and detailed. On the opposite side, the VF600's had a more clean sound so there was a bit less automatic glue to work with and a little more care was required to balance things.

So, when I went back to the 2520's I could hear the differences immediately (more color, bigger signature, less open highs, automatic punch), and I found that I could pretty much mix those characteristics that I liked in the VF600's back into the mix. It was the kind of experience where changing the opamps forced me to learn a different perspective on balancing mix elements, and that ultimately taught me how to get more out of the 2520's. Also, the glue and punch of the API's is just great. So, in effect, I'm back to the original 2520 opamps. I'm definitely keeping most of the VF600's though. For Rock/Metal the API's just work, and for other genre's that might benefit from a cleaner disposition, I can put the VF600's back in. - paul
Old 21st August 2014
  #40
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This was an interesting thread.

Did anyone try the Firlotte's on the API DSM / 8200A / 7800 mixers etc.. ??

There is less in the signal path on these units, would be interesting
to hear if anyone noticed any difference.

Did anyone else swap back to the OG 2520's on their boards ?
Old 21st August 2014
  #41
I now have 1122s in the centre section/control room outs and have just pulled the trigger on a buch of red dots to try on channels. Will report in later.

In the meantime, I finally managed to fill a bucket with e27s:

[/QUOTE]
Old 22nd August 2014
  #42
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Some of the group DIY guys might know these - theyre just incredible opamps. He has a couple more - a 990 and a 2520. I know many ME's who've ripped their HS1000/HS2000s - I would highly recommend getting on contact with him and see what he can do for you. Honestly for the $40 or whatever they cost to try one and potentially replace all your opamps give it a shot APP Studio Ing's products - His name is Pier Pablo Abbate
Old 19th October 2014
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
This was an interesting thread.

Did anyone try the Firlotte's on the API DSM / 8200A / 7800 mixers etc.. ??

There is less in the signal path on these units, would be interesting
to hear if anyone noticed any difference.

Did anyone else swap back to the OG 2520's on their boards ?
I have the api DSM system, currently I have 3 8200's and a 7800, before the 7800 I had the 8200a, I did swap out the opamps with huntingtons, and there was a noticeable difference, I can't say it was better it worse, just different.

Now that I have the 7800 I would like to try some different opamps I have the old huntingtons 2520's and a pair of Avedis 1122 I'd like to to try. Before I go through the rigamoroe I will have to wait to get some VF 600 opamps in here.
Old 19th October 2014
  #44
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So no one knows Piers Opamps?
Old 15th January 2015
  #45
Look what arrived from Scott Lieber. I'm gonna fill a bucket with red dots and see how it feels...



Old 15th January 2015
  #46
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Cool
Keep us posted!
I'm curious for the full effect on multiple channels.
I've swapped around red dots on my 1608 mix buss.they softened/rounded things up bit.after A/B'ng a lot and listening to mixes printed through both I stayed w/ the V600's for punch and clarity.

Last edited by RoundBadge; 16th January 2015 at 12:33 AM..
Old 15th January 2015
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma View Post
So no one knows Piers Opamps?
NO one?
Old 17th January 2015
  #48
Dot
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Of all the available op-amps out there, which might be considered the "cleanest", "fastest", "tightest" and overall most neutral?
We've used and tested through a lot of op-amps. I'd suggest the Millennia MM-990.

http://www.eisenaudio.com/diy500/dat...amps/MM990.pdf
Old 17th January 2015
  #49
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I imagine it's a fairly expensive proposition for you guys to be swapping out more than a small handful of op amps at $50-$75 per DOA.

Question: if op amps were half that price would you guys do more swapping on all channels? Or are you only interested in changing out things in the mix buss / master section?

Brad
Old 17th January 2015
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
I imagine it's a fairly expensive proposition for you guys to be swapping out more than a small handful of op amps at $50-$75 per DOA.

Question: if op amps were half that price would you guys do more swapping on all channels? Or are you only interested in changing out things in the mix buss / master section?

Brad
I'd try anything if it might change how things sounded for the better.

Just finished installing the red dots in one bucket. A/b-ing drums from one bucket to the other and the red dots feel slightly fuller and round off the transients a little. The standard bucket has sharper transients and a little more air (though NB the red dot bucket has API eqs and the standard bucket has Avedis e27s so I guess that could be a factor)
Old 17th January 2015
  #51
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Trev for kicks did you try bypassing all the eq's ?
Old 18th January 2015
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Trev for kicks did you try bypassing all the eq's ?
Yep. They were all switched out at the eq But I haven't looked at w schematic to see whether they are true bypass.
Old 18th January 2015
  #53
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Cool
Thanks for sharing!!
Old 1st October 2017
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Cool
Thanks for sharing!!
On my 1608 I am getting static on channel one ,but it passes audio fine and the mic mic pre is fine,could this be a Opamp.?
Old 1st October 2017
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyz View Post
On my 1608 I am getting static on channel one ,but it passes audio fine and the mic mic pre is fine,could this be a Opamp.?
An opamp going back can be anything from an intermittent squeak or hiss to a sound like frying bacon. either way it will get steadily worse.
Old 1st October 2017
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
An opamp going back can be anything from an intermittent squeak or hiss to a sound like frying bacon. either way it will get steadily worse.
Yes it does sound like bacon frying,the console is only one year old ,I will contact api on Monday,is it hard to replace the opamp?
Old 1st October 2017
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyz View Post
Yes it does sound like bacon frying,the console is only one year old ,I will contact api on Monday,is it hard to replace the opamp?
No. It's very simple. I can do a little video of me swapping one if you like. Get used to it. It is not an infrequent occurrence. Happily though, it is about the only thing that ever seems to go wrong.
Old 1st October 2017
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
No. It's very simple. I can do a little video of me swapping one if you like. Get used to it. It is not an infrequent occurrence. Happily though, it is about the only thing that ever seems to go wrong.
That would be very helpful,just removed the module,which wasn't to bad,thanks a bunch john
Old 1st October 2017
  #59
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RoundBadge's Avatar
All my 1608 opamps are red dots now.
The new API’s had a very high failure rate.
Not a single red dot has failed.
Mix buss/monitoring still Firlotte 600’s.
Also changed every single transformer to the red litz wires.lots of other mods .
my mix buss has 6db more headroom,super helpful .I always felt the stock 1608 flattened/mushed out when you hit it too hard.
Old 1st October 2017
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
All my 1608 opamps are red dots now.
The new API’s had a very high failure rate.
Not a single red dot has failed.
Mix buss/monitoring still Firlotte 600’s.
Also changed every single transformer to the red litz wires.lots of other mods .
my mix buss has 6db more headroom,super helpful .I always felt the stock 1608 flattened/mushed out when you hit it too hard.
Mind I ask what power supply does everybody uses with the 1608? How far is the power cable and does it utilize any remote DC sensing?
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