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Which Preamps for this Style of Music?
Old 6th December 2013
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Which Preamps for this Style of Music?

Hi everyone, I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions on which preamps would be better for the style of music that I've been recording lately.

Just to be clear, I'm not actually in the market for new preamps, as I'm extremely happy with my Porticos and Crane Song gear. I just want to hear what everybody else has to say!

The style of music is singer-songwriter/indie/alternative, with a hint of jazz and a hint of rock. Think Elliot Smith meets Death Cab meets soft jazz.

The preamp contenders are:
- Neve 10xx style (BAE, Vintech, Aurora, AMS, Vintage, etc.)
- Modern API (512c, Vision Console, etc.)
- Vintage API (312, etc.)
- Portico Series (5012, 5017, Portico II Channel, etc.)
- Neutral (Millennia, Forssell, Grace, NPNG, etc.)
- Clean Tube (737, Fearn, etc.)
- Vibe Tube (V76, Tube Tech, etc.)


Please start your response like THIS:
Quote:
Male Vocal = Neve 10xx style
Acoustic Guitar = Modern API
etc...

[encouraged explanation here]
Please only use the categories that I listed above. And please don't talk about specific preamps unless you first state which category it's a part of.

I'm not interested in a discussion about your irrational love for the gear that you own. I just want to hear your opinions on which TYPE of gear you think would BEST FIT this style of music.

Thanks, and let the posts begin!
Old 6th December 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
daking
Old 6th December 2013
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouge View Post
daking
please read the first post before posting mindlessly. Thanks.
Old 6th December 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Hi everyone, I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions on which preamps would be better for the style of music that I've been recording lately.

Just to be clear, I'm not actually, in the market for new preamps, as I'm extremely happy with my Porticos and Crane Song gear. I just want to hear what everybody else has to say!

The style of music is singer-songwriter/indie/alternative, with a hint of jazz and a hint of rock. Think Elliot Smith meets Death Cab meets soft jazz.

The preamp contenders are:
- Neve 10xx style (BAE, Vintech, Aurora, AMS, Vintage, etc.)
- Modern API (512c, Vision Console, etc.)
- Vintage API (312, etc.)
- Portico Series (5012, 5017, Portico II Channel, etc.)
- Neutral (Millennia, Forssell, Grace, NPNG, etc.)
- Clean Tube (737, Fearn, etc.)
- Vibe Tube (V76, Tube Tech, etc.)


Please start your response like THIS:


Please only use the categories that I listed above. And please don't talk about specific preamps unless you first state which category it's a part of.

I'm not interested in a discussion about your irrational love for the gear that you own. I just want to hear your opinions on which TYPE of gear you think would BEST FIT this style of music.

Thanks, and let the posts begin!
I'm just going to cover the Neve and API camps...since this got lengthy. I might make another post later, but I would probably start here either way. Hope this helps.


"Neve" Camp:

Great River MP-2NV & EQ-2NV are the best value for a pair of Neve inspired channels in terms of function over fashion. The impedance switch to change OMHS from 1,200 to 300 really does make a difference with ribbons and some dynamics. Whereas the Load button really does add a bit of nice top end to the whole signal when you want to brighten things up without adding more EQ. The EQ-2NV itself has 34 frequencies bands (18 more more than any direct 1073 Neve Clone for example) as well as selectable bell and shelf curves on the HIGH and LOW bands, AND three different selectable Q curves for the HIGH MID and LOW MID bands. This combo is cleaner than Vintage Neves when it comes to THD (Total Harmonic Distortions) because they use custom sowter transformers instead of Carnhills, or vintage Neve Transformers (Marinairs / St. Ives.) But ultimately if you buy the 2NV versions you're saving money by sharing power supplies. Giving you a much more flexible combo at slightly less than $2,600 a unit, which is cheaper than a BAE 1073 clone with it's basic (and limited) EQ. (Especially when you factor in having to spending $2,400 on an 8 slot rack if you feel the need to go traditional...or an extra $335 more for a single rack mounted unit, which will also need a power supply which will cost you an extra $200 on top of that. Meaning $3,135 for one channel total.)

Heritage Audio 8173 would be the next pick for modern "Neve-Camp" units. The preamp is an exacting clone of the vintage 1066/1073 preamp, but the 24 band selectable EQ is a clone of the 1081 EQ. Much more flexible and useful than the EQ on the 1073 this is as close as you'll get to the Great River's flexibility when it comes to an EQ...though it's $2620 a unit prior to buying an 8 slot rack to house the modules for another $2,400. At that point the Great River starts to look a lot more cost effective in terms of features. If I was paying full price for clones I would go with these since they would be a lot easier to dial in than the standard 1073 16 band EQ.

BAE 1066D is the next pick, it's the better value on paper than the Heritage 6673 (The other 1066 style clone on the market), or the BAE 1073 with having a few more frequency selections and being $200-$220 cheaper. Still...I would love to shoot them out to confirm my suspicions here. Both 1066 clones have more bands to choose from on the High Shelf, and are more appealing to me personally than stock 1073 clones because of this. you get the best of both worlds (the 10K of the 1066, and the 12K of the 1073 on the high band), as well as the cooler mid-range Bell Curve of the 1066. These have 18 bands total, but two minor weaknesses...no 4K or 5K mid band to choose from...something the 8173 and the Great River EQ-2NV correct for.

If I had to choose 500 series units I wouldn't choose a Neve clone. I would instead pick a CAPI Heider FD312 (API clone.) For reasons I'll explain later down the line.

FINALLY...we have the Seventh Circle Audio N72. $479 a unit without factoring in the $499 rack space with power supply, or the little $179 "one shot" hand-held case if you want a single unit, we have a winner in cost efficiency. But if you start buying in bulk (4-8 units) you'll get even further slight discounts from there. (Provided you add in the labeled face plates on your order.) These are GREAT preamps for the money, very close to a 1066/1073 style preamp without the EQ, etc. If you're looking to get into that family of sounds without much by way of extras, or frills...this is the unit to beat in terms of price. Good EQ pairings would be the Chandler Little Devil EQ in the 500 series to get you back to Neve-town.

I still haven't gotten to use the Aurora stuff, but they're on my list to check out. I would pick all of these over Vintechs and AMS Neve units personally. I would also stay away from GAP stuff if you want things to feel like they belong in the Neve Family in terms of overall size and width of stereo image. (They didn't impress me personally.) I also would go with these picks over the Portico preamp designs, but I know a lot of people I respect love the new RND stuff too.


API Clones:

I would pick a pair of CAPI Heider FD312 (DeMedio mod clone) and CAPI LC53a EQ's (Inductor based 550a style EQ) if I wanted couple pres and EQ's in the 500 series. I would then pick a pair of CAPI VP28's and Purple Audio TAV Graphic EQ's (Inductor based 560's) if I wanted four channels (The VP28's are a little smaller and more focused sounding than the smooth mid range heft of the Heider, but they'll have built in high pass filters similar to the LC53a EQ's...this way all four channels would have HPF's.)

Four of each would be optimal, in two 500 series racks and reportedly replacing all the opamps with RED DOT's on the CAPI stuff yields the best results. (The Heider comes with the RED DOT stock.) This would leave four spaces for some good compressors too.

The Warm Audio Tone Beast is what I would buy if I just needed a single preamp and couldn't afford anything else. All of the designs I've picked here have output attenuation or a second gain stage.

If I was buying four N72's from Seventh Circle audio...and I wanted some API style pres too...I would get four A12s clones which are the least expensive and most authentic API style clones they offer. Also they at least have a -6dB variable Trim to help attenuate.

Every single one of my choices have more by way of controls and options AND are cheaper than stock API outboard, and I prefer how they sound to the current API lineup for outboard *Shrug*. (Though an API console is tough to beat.)

Last edited by herecomesyourman; 6th December 2013 at 04:26 PM.. Reason: EDIT: Talking about the 1066 a bit more here.
Old 6th December 2013
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I'm just going to cover the Neve and API camps...since this got lengthy. I might make another post later, but I would probably start here either way. Hope this helps.


"Neve" Camp:

Great River MP-2NV & EQ-2NV are the best value for a pair of Neve inspired channels in terms of function over fashion. The impedance switch to change OMHS from 1,200 to 300 really does make a difference with ribbons and some dynamics. Whereas the Load button really does add a bit of nice top end to the whole signal when you want to brighten things up without adding more EQ. The EQ-2NV itself has 34 frequencies bands (18 more more than any direct 1073 Neve Clone for example) as well as selectable bell and shelf curves on the HIGH and LOW bands, AND three different selectable Q curves for the HIGH MID and LOW MID bands. This combo is cleaner than Vintage Neves when it comes to THD (Total Harmonic Distortions) because they use custom sowter transformers instead of Carnhills, or vintage Neve Transformers (Marinairs / St. Ives.) But ultimately if you buy the 2NV versions you're saving money by sharing power supplies. Giving you a much more flexible combo at slightly less than $2,600 a unit, which is cheaper than a BAE 1073 clone with it's basic (and limited) EQ. (Especially when you factor in having to spending $2,400 on an 8 slot rack if you feel the need to go traditional...or an extra $335 more for a single rack mounted unit, which will also need a power supply which will cost you an extra $200 on top of that. Meaning $3,135 for one channel total.)

Heritage Audio 8173 would be the next pick for modern "Neve-Camp" units. The preamp is an exacting clone of the vintage 1066/1073 preamp, but the 24 band selectable EQ is a clone of the 1081 EQ. Much more flexible and useful than the EQ on the 1073 this is as close as you'll get to the Great River's flexibility when it comes to an EQ...though it's $2620 a unit prior to buying an 8 slot rack to house the modules int for another $2,400. At that point the Great River starts to look a lot more cost effective in terms of features. If I was paying full price for clones I would go with these.

BAE 1066D is the next pick, it's a much better value on paper than the Heritage 6673, with having a few more frequency selections and being $220 cheaper. Still...I would love to shoot them out to confirm my suspicions here. 1066 clones with more bands to choose from on the High Shelf are more appealing to me personally than stock 1073 clones. you get the best of both worlds (10K and 12K on the high band) and the cooler mid-range Bell Curve of the 1066.

If I had to choose 500 series units I wouldn't choose a Neve clone. I would instead pick a CAPI Heider FD312 (API clone.) For reasons I'll explain later down the line.

FINALLY...we have the Seventh Circle Audio N72. $479 a unit without factoring in the $499 rack space with power supply, or the little $179 "one shot" hand-held case if you want a single unit. But if you start buying in bulk (4-8 units) you do get a slit discount (provided you add in the labeled face plates. It evens out.) These are GREAT preamps for the money, very close to a 1066/1073 style preamp without the EQ, etc. If you're looking to get into that family of sounds without much by way of extras, or frills...this is the unit to beat in terms of price. Good EQ pairings would be the Chandler Little Devil EQ in the 500 series to get you back to Neve-town.

I still haven't gotten to use the Aurora stuff, but they're on my list to check out. I would pick all of these over Vintechs and AMS Neve units personally. I would also stay away from GAP stuff if you want things to feel like they belong in the Neve Family in terms of overall size and width of stereo image. (They didn't impress me personally.) I also would go with these picks over the Portico stuff, except maybe the MBP compressor / Limiter.


API Family:

I would pick a pair of CAPI Heider FD312 and CAPI LC53a EQ's (Inductor based 550a style EQ) if I wanted couple pres and EQ's in the 500 series. I would then pick a pair of CAPI VP28's and Purple Audio TAV Graphic EQ's (Inductor based 560's) if I wanted four channels (The VP28's are a little smaller and more focused sounding, but they'll have built in high pass filters similar to the LC53a EQ's...which will blend nice with the TAV Graphic EQ's which have no HPF capabilities. This way all four channels would have HPF's.)

Four of each would be optimal, in two 500 series racks and reportedly replacing all the opamps with RED DOT's on the CAPI stuff yields the best results. (The Heider comes with the RED DOT stock.) This would leave four spaces for some good compressors too.

The Warm Audio Tone Beast is what I would buy if I just needed a single preamp and couldn't afford anything else. All of the designs I've picked here have output attenuation or a second gain stage.

If I was buying four N72's from Seventh Circle audio...and I wanted some API style pres too...I would get four A12s clones which are the least expensive and most authentic API style clones they offer. Also they at least have a -6dB variable Trim to help attenuate.

Every single one of my choices have more by way of controls and options AND are cheaper than stock API outboard, and I prefer how they sound. *Shrug*.
Thanks for the detailed post. I expected a lot of neve-lovers, but I find it interesting that you think the API sound is ideal for this style of music. I personally have 2 VP312s with Red-Dots (very fun build, btw), and being able to drive them with pad is very fun indeed. I didn't end up actually using it that way in serious recordings very much though, unfortunately. I think it lends itself more toward a harder-hitting style of music
Old 6th December 2013
  #6
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Thanks for the detailed post. I expected a lot of neve-lovers, but I find it interesting that you think the API sound is ideal for this style of music. I personally have 2 VP312s with Red-Dots (very fun build, btw), and being able to drive them with pad is very fun indeed. I didn't end up actually using it that way in serious recordings very much though, unfortunately. I think it lends itself more toward a harder-hitting style of music
You're welcome Joshua...I actually just slightly edited my post a bit to expand upon my API and 1066D explanations too. I think the API stuff is fine for just about any style, and mixing techniques are more important than anything else.

The Heider seems to me to have that huge mid-forward thing a Neve has...with the API Cinemag transformer kind of sound instead of the pillowy Neve saturation I'm used too. The transient is still faster as a result (I've only heard Roundbadges sample...but I got that right away), and the lower mid-range isn't quite as big as a Neve, but it's got some life to it. I foresee it playing well with others.

The only other CAPI I've heard is the VP28 (This time in person), but it really knocked my socks off. That felt more modern API to me, but better, and closer to the A12s by Seventh Circle and the Tone Beast in terms of sound than a 512c. (Which I think is actually a good thing since I find the 512c lacking compared to an API console channel strip.)

The "Neve" choices are more for function over fashion, and price Vs performance while I'm at it. I've owned vintage Neve 1272's and worked on 80's series consoles before with 1066's and 1073's. If I'm paying full price for nicer clones I see no reason not go with the 8173's by Heritage (I know BAE used to have something similar in the 1032 but doesn't make it anymore, AND it was way more expensive.) Why wouldn't I want the 1081 EQ over the 1073 EQ if I can get it? (And we'll say in this case it's an improved one with some of the best features of the 1073 and 1084 EQ mixed in.) The EQ's are a huge part of that sound, and the more flexible versions have always been more appealing to me. Still I'll save a fortune here if I go with N72's instead and pick up some Chandler Little Devil EQ's to round it all out. (Not quite as nice, but pretty darn great for the money.)

End of the day though, not much can beat the Great River EQ's in terms of flexibility and tone, AND if you buy the 2NV's they work out to be a more cost effective than almost every other option. I love the old Neves...but at some point you have to look at feature sets too.
Old 6th December 2013
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Heritage Audio's Avatar
 

Just to make it clear, the Heritage Audio 6673 is NOT a 3 band eq like the 1066, but sort of an expanded 1073 with the added mid band of the 1066. Therefore it is a 4 BAND EQ.
Thanks
Old 6th December 2013
  #8
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heritage Audio View Post
Just to make it clear, the Heritage Audio 6673 is NOT a 3 band eq like the 1066, but sort of an expanded 1073 with the added mid band of the 1066. Therefore it is a 4 BAND EQ.
Thanks
Gotcha! Sorry Peter, I didn't get to take as close of a look as I would have liked at the 6673 yet, I still think the 8173 is a stroke of genius and really cost effective when you break it down. There's some times where a "Neve" sound is really the ticket and the Great River preamp to me is it's own thing (though I like both for different reasons.) I have a feeling the 8173 is the one to beat in terms of price Vs features for that sound, and a really cool modern update at that, but the Q curve of what you're describing for the mid bands on the 6673 would be really interesting to try.

I will revise my post on the 6673 after taking a closer look at it, but I get why you would want to blend designs that way. That sounds like a really good middle ground.
Old 6th December 2013
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

I'm interested to hear what people have to say about the other "preamp categories" in regards to the musical style in question
Old 6th December 2013
  #10
Love my Fearn and NPNG hardware, every day I use it is a great day.
This stuff sounds so good it always transcends genre specifics
Old 6th December 2013
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Love my Fearn and NPNG hardware, every day I use it is a great day.
This stuff sounds so good it always transcends genre specifics
As always. I am so jealous. Grr. For tube designs and "John Hardy-esque" clean those would be my top picks.
Old 6th December 2013
  #12
Village Idiot
 
Labs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Love my Fearn and NPNG hardware, every day I use it is a great day.
This stuff sounds so good it always transcends genre specifics
You must have missed the guidelines specified for posting in this thread.

In the words of the original poster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
please read the first post before posting mindlessly. Thanks.


Gustav

P.S. You may only quote me if you post a pic of yourself wearing a banana hat...
Old 6th December 2013
  #13
Baz
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Baz's Avatar
 

Neve (inspired)
Forssell

Daking all rounder
Old 6th December 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 

No idea what singer-songwriter/indie/alternative + Jazz and Rock means.

Furthermore I think every preamp listed on this page will make a wonderful recording, no matter what genre or label is being tossed. Like can you REALLY go wrong with a Portico 2, Tubetech, Fearn, or API? I doubt it. It's like Haagen-Dahz. Sure the flavors are different but they are all expensive and delicious. You could pick one blindly and it will still be really good.

True flavor matching of preamps is certainly source specific with too many variables. I would likely go Quad Eight for indie rock stuff, but if the particular song is a wall of ambient, delayed clean guitar tones I might use something completely different then the next song full of fuzzy crushing distorted tones.
Old 6th December 2013
  #15
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverted314 View Post
No idea what singer-songwriter/indie/alternative + Jazz and Rock means.

Furthermore I think every preamp listed on this page will make a wonderful recording, no matter what genre or label is being tossed. Like can you REALLY go wrong with a Portico 2, Tubetech, Fearn, or API? I doubt it. It's like Haagen-Dahz. Sure the flavors are different but they are all expensive and delicious. You could pick one blindly and it will still be really good.
I agree with this. I was just breaking down the army list of Neve and API clones to get into functions since it's often a subject people talk about without really getting into what the differences are. Especially now that newer generation designs are blending bits of several classics.
Old 6th December 2013
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labs View Post
You must have missed the guidelines specified for posting in this thread.

In the words of the original poster.





Gustav
It sometimes amazes what I see on these forums, as if I couldn't have made the guidelines of this thread more clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverted314 View Post
No idea what singer-songwriter/indie/alternative + Jazz and Rock means.

Furthermore I think every preamp listed on this page will make a wonderful recording, no matter what genre or label is being tossed. Like can you REALLY go wrong with a Portico 2, Tubetech, Fearn, or API? I doubt it. It's like Haagen-Dahz. Sure the flavors are different but they are all expensive and delicious. You could pick one blindly and it will still be really good.

True flavor matching of preamps is certainly source specific with too many variables. I would likely go Quad Eight for indie rock stuff, but if the particular song is a wall of ambient, delayed clean guitar tones I might use something completely different then the next song full of fuzzy crushing distorted tones.
When I said "singer-songwriter/indie/alternative + Jazz and Rock", I was basically trying to explain that I'm NOT recording hard-hitting styles. Not rap, hip-hop, EDM, R&B, metal, mega-compressed "modern rock", etc.
Just all the other stuff. Softer material, more intimate material. Sorry if my description was a bit confusing.
Old 6th December 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Hi everyone, I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions on which preamps would be better for the style of music that I've been recording lately.

Just to be clear, I'm not actually in the market for new preamps, as I'm extremely happy with my Porticos and Crane Song gear. I just want to hear what everybody else has to say!

The style of music is singer-songwriter/indie/alternative, with a hint of jazz and a hint of rock. Think Elliot Smith meets Death Cab meets soft jazz.

The preamp contenders are:
- Neve 10xx style (BAE, Vintech, Aurora, AMS, Vintage, etc.)
- Modern API (512c, Vision Console, etc.)
- Vintage API (312, etc.)
- Portico Series (5012, 5017, Portico II Channel, etc.)
- Neutral (Millennia, Forssell, Grace, NPNG, etc.)
- Clean Tube (737, Fearn, etc.)
- Vibe Tube (V76, Tube Tech, etc.)


Please start your response like THIS:


Please only use the categories that I listed above. And please don't talk about specific preamps unless you first state which category it's a part of.

I'm not interested in a discussion about your irrational love for the gear that you own. I just want to hear your opinions on which TYPE of gear you think would BEST FIT this style of music.

Thanks, and let the posts begin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
I'm interested to hear what people have to say about the other "preamp categories" in regards to the musical style in question


i did read your post joshua and i gave you the answer i think best suits your post. for the type of music you are talking here the daking is the best in my mind. so no it was not a mindless response.
Old 6th December 2013
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouge View Post
i did read your post joshua and i gave you the answer i think best suits your post. for the type of music you are talking here the daking is the best in my mind. so no it was not a mindless response.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Please only use the categories that I listed above.
Old 6th December 2013
  #19
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
It sometimes amazes what I see on these forums, as if I couldn't have made the guidelines of this thread more clear.

Perhaps you can use your authority as Thread Starter to delete those comments that have strayed from your guidelines.
Old 7th December 2013
  #20
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Perhaps you can use your authority as Thread Starter to delete those comments that have strayed from your guidelines.
Can you really do that? How?
Old 7th December 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Think Elliot Smith meets Death Cab meets soft jazz.
hahaha
Old 7th December 2013
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Ehh screw it, nobody wants to play along in my thread.

Alright folks, feel free to post about your favorite gear and pay no attention to my instructions in the first post. I'll be drinking hot tea and never looking at this thread again.
Old 7th December 2013
  #23
Baz
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Baz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
Ehh screw it, nobody wants to play along in my thread.

Alright folks, feel free to post about your favorite gear and pay no attention to my instructions in the first post. I'll be drinking hot tea and never looking at this thread again.
Pick up your ball and go home

The one word "Daking" response was as viable as any and why I cited it as an all rounder. Did you stop to think he prolly meant it would cover both the apps you asked about? Its a fantastic mic amp that can cover anything.period
Old 7th December 2013
  #24
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
Pick up your ball and go home

The one word "Daking" response was as viable as any and why I cited it as an all rounder. Did you stop to think he prolly meant it would cover both the apps you asked about? Its a fantastic mic amp that can cover anything.period
The Daking stuff is great. It's not my first pick but I've never heard bad recordings done on them.
Old 7th December 2013
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
Pick up your ball and go home

The one word "Daking" response was as viable as any and why I cited it as an all rounder. Did you stop to think he prolly meant it would cover both the apps you asked about? Its a fantastic mic amp that can cover anything.period
There's a reason I specified a format for posting in this thread:
Quote:
Male Vocal = Neve 10xx style
Acoustic Guitar = Modern API
etc...

[encouraged explanation here]
Because 90% of Gearslutz threads provide little to no useful information. People don't explain WHEN and WHY they like certain gear, or HOW they like using it. They just say "Daking" which provides no useful information whatsoever. If people used the template above, we would accomplish three things:
  1. Help keep the thread on topic and organized
  2. Explain WHEN you would use the type of gear you mentioned (ex. Acoustic Guitar), because otherwise the information is completely useless.
  3. Explain WHY it's good for this style of music, because this adds validity to the opinion

Without these things, there is no useful information, and no useful exchange of ideas.
And this is the fate of so many gearslutz threads. I tried to avoid that, but I have failed.

You have people posting "Hey, whats a good microphone for vocals?"
And someone answers with a microphone that HE is using for vocals, but little does the OP know, that guy is doing a completely opposite genre from him, and a completely different vocal style! And if you don't even say which instrument you like the gear for, you might as well be teaching that the world is flat.

Without a WHEN, WHY, and HOW, all gear suggestions are misleading, useless, and generally unhealthy.
Old 7th December 2013
  #26
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Wise View Post
There's a reason I specified a format for posting in this thread:


Because 90% of Gearslutz threads provide little to no useful information. People don't explain WHEN and WHY they like certain gear, or HOW they like using it. They just say "Daking" which provides no useful information whatsoever. If people used the template above, we would accomplish three things:
  1. Help keep the thread on topic and organized
  2. Explain WHEN you would use the type of gear you mentioned (ex. Acoustic Guitar), because otherwise the information is completely useless.
  3. Explain WHY it's good for this style of music, because this adds validity to the opinion

Without these things, there is no useful information, and no useful exchange of ideas.
And this is the fate of so many gearslutz threads. I tried to avoid that, but I have failed.

You have people posting "Hey, whats a good microphone for vocals?"
And someone answers with a microphone that HE is using for vocals, but little does the OP know, that guy is doing a completely opposite genre from him, and a completely different vocal style! And if you don't even say which instrument you like the gear for, you might as well be teaching that the world is flat.

Without a WHEN, WHY, and HOW, all gear suggestions are misleading, useless, and generally unhealthy.
The Daking stuff owes it's sound to the Trident A-Range and B-Range consoles (pre 80B) So it's got a really pronounced upper mid-range, and more high end than even Quad Eight consoles (or the modern Pacifica units.)

I'm not in lust for the external four channel preamp because it lacks output attenuation or a second gain stage (which you'll find I always complain about if I can't have it.) But the full channel strip I believe DOES have output control (double check me there.) Either way, they're not bad preamps, just not my first choice. I tend to prefer slightly darker tones (Neve / Great River / API) since cymbols and hi-hat get tamed without much EQ that way. Also I prefer preamps with more lower mid-range and less of a pushed top end. The Daking is not as "big" sounding as a Neve style preamp or the Great River, and it's also not as punchy as an API...but it does that Trident-style upper midrange thing which can be amazing on some guitars and pretty decent on drums.

The EQ however I'm seriously pumped for if it's related to the old Trident A-Range and B-Range EQ's in spirit, those are some of the finest console EQ's in history. I like it in the channel strip, but I haven't had the pleasure of the 500 series version yet.
Old 7th December 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
it's sad to discount daking for the genres mentioned. that is what it excels at. fair enough it may not be the perfect choice for a particular persons ears but to discount it completely ignores the history behind trident and daking.

http://www.transaudiogroup.com/uploa...offBio2003.pdf
Old 7th December 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouge View Post
it's sad to discount daking for the genres mentioned. that is what it excels at. fair enough it may not be the perfect choice for a particular persons ears but to discount it completely ignores the history behind trident and daking.

http://www.transaudiogroup.com/uploa...offBio2003.pdf
Totally, some fantastic records were cut with those kinds of designs.
Old 7th December 2013
  #29
I have a pair of Daking Mic Pre/Eqs. First, they do have separate gain and output controls. Second, they are very great sounding and versatile preamps. I spent a day with a talented young musician with great ears and taste and little knowledge of of lust for gear trying out microphones and preamps on my drum kit to find what he did and didn't like. Settling on an M88 for kick we tried it through a number of preamps and the Daking beat them all, including the API 512, the Retro Instruments Powerstrip, US 2-61- modded with Telefunken and RCA NOS tubes and the Undertone MPEQ-1. It is great on guitar cabinets, especially with ribbon mics, and sounds fantastic when paired with a tube compressor. I've been told that it kicks ass with dynamic mics in general and my experience using it with ribbons tells me that it excels there, too. My experiences of late leads me to believe that it strongest attributes shine best when it is paired with tube mics, or tube compressors or ribbons with a real personality to them. It maintains it's clear open quality while allowing the other parts of the chain to show off their strengths. Paired it recently with a FLEA 47 on a singer who found the FLEA too dark and claustrophobic. Going through the Daking and using the EQ to boost the air frequencies and tame the low end to combat proximity effect was just what the doctor ordered. Everyone loves that EQ. I'm no expert when it comes to that but I will say it didn't take much effort to dial in the sound and make my singer comfortable and happy.
Old 7th December 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Trask View Post
I have a pair of Daking Mic Pre/Eqs. First, they do have separate gain and output controls. Second, they are very great sounding and versatile preamps. I spent a day with a talented young musician with great ears and taste and little knowledge of of lust for gear trying out microphones and preamps on my drum kit to find what he did and didn't like. Settling on an M88 for kick we tried it through a number of preamps and the Daking beat them all, including the API 512, the Retro Instruments Powerstrip, US 2-61- modded with Telefunken and RCA NOS tubes and the Undertone MPEQ-1. It is great on guitar cabinets, especially with ribbon mics, and sounds fantastic when paired with a tube compressor. I've been told that it kicks ass with dynamic mics in general and my experience using it with ribbons tells me that it excels there, too. My experiences of late leads me to believe that it strongest attributes shine best when it is paired with tube mics, or tube compressors or ribbons with a real personality to them. It maintains it's clear open quality while allowing the other parts of the chain to show off their strengths. Paired it recently with a FLEA 47 on a singer who found the FLEA too dark and claustrophobic. Going through the Daking and using the EQ to boost the air frequencies and tame the low end to combat proximity effect was just what the doctor ordered. Everyone loves that EQ. I'm no expert when it comes to that but I will say it didn't take much effort to dial in the sound and make my singer comfortable and happy.
I remember really liking the channel strip, especially for overheads paired with ribbon mics. They make quality stuff for sure.
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