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AEA N22 stereo pair or R88?
Old 6th November 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
elladoizquierdo's Avatar
 

AEA N22 stereo pair or R88?

Wich stereo pair would you pick?
I allready own a pair of R84 that I love (the get used in every session, and live permanetly on drum OH´s), so I was planning to buy the R88 for stereo drum overheads so I could move the R84´s as room mics when recording drums.
But then I read about the new N22... and I have allways loved my R84´s on acoustic guitars, but they are a bit noisy because the low output forcing me to crank up preamps..., and N22´s are phantom powered= higher output..., but would they sound thinner than R84´s? (read they have less lows, more high mids), so I´m really confused.

Has sombody allready compared the N22 to R84´s, R88´s...?
Old 6th November 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 

If you're thinking primarily drums, get the r88. It's as close to perfect as you can get....
Old 7th November 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Very different mics. The N22 is definitely a more modern voiced mic. The R88 is a classic. I'd go R88!
Old 7th November 2013
  #4
Gear Nut
 

I'd go R88 if it's primarily for drums

also, if you can, get some cloud lifters for when you want to track acoustics with your R84's, that has been working out pretty great for me
Old 7th November 2013
  #5
Gear Head
 
elladoizquierdo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monolithrec View Post
I'd go R88 if it's primarily for drums

also, if you can, get some cloud lifters for when you want to track acoustics with your R84's, that has been working out pretty great for me
Yes, I have something similar, the Triton Audio Fethead that works perfect adding 20dB Fet amplification, but still noisy when recording soft fingerpicked acoustic guitar or whispery vocals...
Old 7th November 2013
  #6
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
An advantage of the N22's is that you can use them in other stereo or mono setups. A fixed Stereo Mic is obviously, more limited. As well, the Active amplifiers in the N22's pretty much guarantee that you will not have a problem with noise floor and gain, using ANY preamplifier, with ANY level source.

If you already have super low noise preamplifiers that are acceptable for recording ANY quiet material with low output microphones like the R88, than you will be very happy with your decision. I am planning a purchase of the R88 Mk2 as soon as I can afford one, because it is one of my all time favorite single point stereo microphones.

I love that big bastard,

may the force be with you,

peace
a.j.b
Old 7th November 2013
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by elladoizquierdo View Post
Wich stereo pair would you pick?
I allready own a pair of R84 that I love (the get used in every session, and live permanetly on drum OH´s), so I was planning to buy the R88 for stereo drum overheads so I could move the R84´s as room mics when recording drums.
But then I read about the new N22... and I have allways loved my R84´s on acoustic guitars, but they are a bit noisy because the low output forcing me to crank up preamps..., and N22´s are phantom powered= higher output..., but would they sound thinner than R84´s? (read they have less lows, more high mids), so I´m really confused.

Has sombody allready compared the N22 to R84´s, R88´s...?
Hi there,

The N22 was primarily designed for close-up applications and offers a sound character that is distinctly different from our R series mics. So if you like your R84s on overheads and use them in a conincident (or near coincident) arrangement, the R88 stereo mic is the way to go.

At the same distance, the N22 will have less bass and more midrange presence than the R84. So you can use the N22 in applications, where you would get too much proximity bass with an R84.

With the R88, it really shines in a good sounding room when used at a distance (for overheads, rooms, ensemble recording, classical recording. With the N22, you can get super close and get a detailed and rich sound that brings out the body and character of an instrument as a spot mic.

Does that help?

FYI, I'm working on putting up some sound samples of a spaced pair of N22s versus an R88 further away on a grand piano.

Julian
Old 8th November 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
adirondack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by julian.david View Post
The N22 was primarily designed for close-up applications and offers a sound character that is distinctly different from our R series mics.

At the same distance, the N22 will have less bass and more midrange presence than the R84. So you can use the N22 in applications, where you would get too much proximity bass with an R84.
Do these differences also apply to the A840, for example the A840 would be richer in the bass but have more proximity effect than the N22?

Thanks for your observations.
Old 8th November 2013
  #9
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondack View Post
Do these differences also apply to the A840, for example the A840 would be richer in the bass but have more proximity effect than the N22?

Thanks for your observations.
Yes, the A840 is the 84 with active electronics... it's voiced virtually the same as the R-84.
Old 8th November 2013
  #10
Gear Head
 
elladoizquierdo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by julian.david View Post
Hi there,

The N22 was primarily designed for close-up applications and offers a sound character that is distinctly different from our R series mics. So if you like your R84s on overheads and use them in a conincident (or near coincident) arrangement, the R88 stereo mic is the way to go.

At the same distance, the N22 will have less bass and more midrange presence than the R84. So you can use the N22 in applications, where you would get too much proximity bass with an R84.

With the R88, it really shines in a good sounding room when used at a distance (for overheads, rooms, ensemble recording, classical recording. With the N22, you can get super close and get a detailed and rich sound that brings out the body and character of an instrument as a spot mic.

Does that help?

FYI, I'm working on putting up some sound samples of a spaced pair of N22s versus an R88 further away on a grand piano.

Julian
That helps a lot! thanks.

By the way... Dou you have a rep here in Spain that can demo the new mics?
Old 8th November 2013
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by elladoizquierdo View Post
That helps a lot! thanks.

By the way... Dou you have a rep here in Spain that can demo the new mics?
Yes, Ron Burke at RB Audio in Barcelona. I'm not sure if he has the new mic yet, but you should contact him if you are interested.

RB Audio, Barcelona, Spain
Ron Burke
Trafalgar 50 1, 2a
08010 Barcelona
[email protected]
+34 93 3152726
http://www.rbaudiotec.com
Old 25th March 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Drumhead57's Avatar
R88 - low ceiling

Thanks for all this input guys. I like what I hear about the AEA R88, and am considering it for a drum overhead. I have a very low 7 foot ceiling in my studio (unfortunately), and it's a small room over all (15 x22). Would the R88 be OK in this environment? or would N22s be better?
Old 25th March 2016
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumhead1957 View Post
Thanks for all this input guys. I like what I hear about the AEA R88, and am considering it for a drum overhead. I have a very low 7 foot ceiling in my studio (unfortunately), and it's a small room over all (15 x22). Would the R88 be OK in this environment? or would N22s be better?
If you have absorptive clouds on your ceiling, and the mics aren't nudged right up to the cloud it will be fine in my experience. I used to do drums a long time ago in a similar sized room, but it was treated nicely and balanced sounding so that's the key.

You'll likely have a couple feet between the ceiling and back of the microphone, even if the mics are 2-3 feet above the tops of the cymbals. Also consider the N8, which is basically a mono R88. It's supposed to be designed more for far field as compared to the N22, so it just depends on what you need. My personal opinion is that two N22 will be more flexible in a small studio since they are designed to be worked a bit closer.
Old 25th March 2016
  #14
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Drumhead57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
If you have absorptive clouds on your ceiling, and the mics aren't nudged right up to the cloud it will be fine in my experience. I used to do drums a long time ago in a similar sized room, but it was treated nicely and balanced sounding so that's the key.

You'll likely have a couple feet between the ceiling and back of the microphone, even if the mics are 2-3 feet above the tops of the cymbals. Also consider the N8, which is basically a mono R88. It's supposed to be designed more for far field as compared to the N22, so it just depends on what you need. My personal opinion is that two N22 will be more flexible in a small studio since they are designed to be worked a bit closer.
Thank you Nathan, it' much appreciated. Although the ceiling is treated with foam, I wouldn't have 2 to 3 foot clearance above the mic(s) if they were placed at a workable height. I assume that you were talking about the R88 there. Perhaps the N8s or N22s would be a better choice, or?
Old 25th March 2016
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumhead1957 View Post
Thank you Nathan, it' much appreciated. Although the ceiling is treated with foam, I wouldn't have 2 to 3 foot clearance above the mic if they were placed at a workable height. I assume that you were talking about the R88 there. Perhaps the N8s or N22s would be a better choice, or?
It's pretty much the same with any figure 8 ribbon. You have to take the back side of the mic into consideration. Unfortunately in a room with 7 foot ceilings, there are going to be compromises. And there is no other way to get the sound of a ribbon, other than using a ribbon. IMHO, having the combination of enough distance between the mic and cymbal is the most important thing (I've found 30 inches give or take is the sweet spot), and no early reflections off of the ceiling (which you have taken care of with foam, which should treat high frequencies, you may want to eventually upgrade to 703 fiberglass in 2 ft x 4ft panels).
Old 25th March 2016
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
If you have absorptive clouds on your ceiling, and the mics aren't nudged right up to the cloud it will be fine in my experience. I used to do drums a long time ago in a similar sized room, but it was treated nicely and balanced sounding so that's the key.

You'll likely have a couple feet between the ceiling and back of the microphone, even if the mics are 2-3 feet above the tops of the cymbals. Also consider the N8, which is basically a mono R88. It's supposed to be designed more for far field as compared to the N22, so it just depends on what you need. My personal opinion is that two N22 will be more flexible in a small studio since they are designed to be worked a bit closer.
I'm a bit confused.

We have N22's and a R84. Isn't the R84 basically a mono R88?

The N22 is much leaner in the low end the the R88 and, as you say, is designed to work closer in with less proximity.

When we first got our N22's we were somewhat disappointed by them.

In fact at a distance it sounds rather anaemic compared to the R84.

The N22 is fitted with a perforated tube over the ribbon motor which acts as an acoustical high pass filter.

I removed this tube from one of our N22's and the low end response is now much closer to our R84.

In fact I suspect (conjecture only) that the N8 may be almost identical to the N22 but is not fitted with this acoustic high pass tube?

Our unmodified N22 gets used mainly for close micing acoustic instruments in conjunction with the R84 for vocals (R84 nulls out the guitar/N22 nulls out the vocal)

As the OP's ceiling is low a pair of Beyer M160's could be another ribbon mic option being as they are hyper cardioids and less effected by ceiling reflections.

Just a thought.
Old 25th March 2016
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elladoizquierdo View Post
Wich stereo pair would you pick?
I allready own a pair of R84 that I love (the get used in every session, and live permanetly on drum OH´s), so I was planning to buy the R88 for stereo drum overheads so I could move the R84´s as room mics when recording drums.
But then I read about the new N22... and I have allways loved my R84´s on acoustic guitars, but they are a bit noisy because the low output forcing me to crank up preamps..., and N22´s are phantom powered= higher output..., but would they sound thinner than R84´s? (read they have less lows, more high mids), so I´m really confused.

Has sombody allready compared the N22 to R84´s, R88´s...?
Get yourself a couple of Cloudlifters to use with your R84's.
They will give you around another 20db of gain BEFORE you hit the preamp and due to their relatively high input impedance won't load the R84's output very much.

Cloudlifter CL-1 | Cloud Microphones

Cloud also sell dual channel Cloudlifters but I prefer use single channel ones when using multiple ribbons as I can locate them close to the mics and use short cables between the mics and Cloudlifters.
Old 25th March 2016
  #18
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Drumhead57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowmat View Post

As the OP's ceiling is low a pair of Beyer M160's could be another ribbon mic option being as they are hyper cardioids and less effected by ceiling reflections.

Just a thought.
I will def. take the M160 into consideration. Much thanks.

p.s. I do have a Cloudlifter CL-1, and they are really effective on my dynamic mics as well.
Old 25th March 2016
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Drumhead57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
It's pretty much the same with any figure 8 ribbon. You have to take the back side of the mic into consideration. Unfortunately in a room with 7 foot ceilings, there are going to be compromises. And there is no other way to get the sound of a ribbon, other than using a ribbon. IMHO, having the combination of enough distance between the mic and cymbal is the most important thing (I've found 30 inches give or take is the sweet spot), and no early reflections off of the ceiling (which you have taken care of with foam, which should treat high frequencies, you may want to eventually upgrade to 703 fiberglass in 2 ft x 4ft panels).
I have just 30 inches to the cymbals now, but only 1 foot between the mic capsule (SM81) and the ceiling. Perhaps a ribbon is not the best choice for my room.
Old 25th March 2016
  #20
Lives for gear
 

The R88 is a jaw dropping mic. I love that thing on everything, drum OH, drum room, piano, ac gtr, etc. It won't give you the widest stereo image like with two separate SDs for example, but it's stereo image is uncannily real. Do yourself a favor and borrow or rent one and try it. It's my favorite mic among many and I can't recommend it more. It does help with all ribbons to have a good mic pre match- AEA's own are fantastic options.

Last edited by bigfurry; 25th March 2016 at 12:08 PM.. Reason: F'ing autocorrect
Old 25th March 2016
  #21
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Drumhead57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
The R88 is a jaw dropping mic. I love that thing on everything, drum OH, drum room, piano, ac gtr, etc. It won't give you the widest stereo image like with two separate SDs for example, but it's stereo image is uncannily real. Do yourself a favor and borrow or rent one and try it. It's my favorite mic among many and I can't recommend it more. It does help with all ribbons to have a good mic pre match- AEA's own are fantastic options.
I could run it through an ADL 600, that should work. Just concerned now about my ceiling height issue. Sounds like a fantastic mic in a convenient package.
Old 25th March 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 

I'll add that I've recorded with it in a well tuned room with very low ceilings- if you have absorption/defusion on the ceiling, you are going to get great sounds. Try it from behind the drummer as an OH as well as the usual locations
Old 25th March 2016
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
kikin's Avatar
I love both on my last drum recording i used the r88 on the overheads and the N8 on the room mics. Even though we have a pair of r84 available it was the first time with the N8 and i absolutely love them i use them with a charter oak MPA-1 pre and it was awsome sound.

OHs R88> Capi 312> Burl Mothership

Rooms N8>Charter Oak MPA-1> Burl Mothership

No processing beyond pre amp

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4z1z5gu9w...ample.mp3?dl=0


Edit to add it's a small room...

Last edited by kikin; 25th March 2016 at 07:41 PM..
Old 25th March 2016
  #24
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swafford's Avatar
 

I use mine in Blumelein for OH and get a nice wide, natural sound and feel. My ceilings are unfinished, about 8-10 ft. (a slope) in a great sounding, smallish room in a barn. The walls are old rough cut yellow pine and a bit irregular and I use an absorption panels on either side of the drummer and behind him/her. I use to use a cloud, but found I enjoyed not having anything above the drummer - I get more room and I like the way my room sounds. Having two N8's would be a great option also.
Old 26th March 2016
  #25
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john caldwell's Avatar
For those using the R88 as an overhead, can you comment on position and typical distance from the kit, please?

Beyer M160 has been my overhead default for some, but the R88 be own has never been on kit. A mistake perhaps.

John Caldwell
Old 26th March 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
 

I'm suggesting try 4-5 feet above drummer splitting snare and bass drum from behind the drum stool. Honestly, the Mic is phenomenal anywhere in front as well.
Old 26th March 2016
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
kikin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by john caldwell View Post
For those using the R88 as an overhead, can you comment on position and typical distance from the kit, please?

Beyer M160 has been my overhead default for some, but the R88 be own has never been on kit. A mistake perhaps.

John Caldwell
46 inches from the snare and in an angle lining up the kick and snare.... I hope it helps....
Old 26th March 2016
  #28
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swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by john caldwell View Post
For those using the R88 as an overhead, can you comment on position and typical distance from the kit, please?

Beyer M160 has been my overhead default for some, but the R88 be own has never been on kit. A mistake perhaps.

John Caldwell
I center it above the snare/kick angling back slightly at the kit. Height depends on how much stereo spread I want. And as i commented before, always in Blumelein.
Old 27th March 2016
  #29
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john caldwell's Avatar
Thank you both. Re: Blumelein configuration on the R88: Is there a choice, swafford?

John-
Old 27th March 2016
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
kikin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by john caldwell View Post
Thank you both. Re: Blumelein configuration on the R88: Is there a choice, swafford?

John-
you can do M/S


From the AEA website....

R88 mk2
Passive stereo ribbon mic for XY and MS
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