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Prism vs Antelope Eclipse 384 loopback test? Digital Converters
Old 6th November 2013
  #1
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Prism vs Antelope Eclipse 384 loopback test?

I am very curious to hear how the DA/AD loop in the Antelope Eclipse sounds compared to my Prism ADA-8XR and Prism AD-2. I've heard good things about the converters in the Eclipse but I have been less than impressed with many other options that people rave about on this forum. I owned Lavry Golds for years and I truly believe both Prism options I have are a level above them. I have demoed the Forssell MADA-2 and really didn't like it. I'm not interested in anything below the top level, but since I already have two different Prism options, I figured it would be nice to hear how the Eclipse 384 stacks up.

I generally like to test converters by starting with the DA/AD at 18db, running a mix out from the DA directly to the AD and recording it back in. Then after that I just increase the gain on the AD in 1db increments and push the converters WELL into clipping to see how they react. The way a converter handles extreme clipping is a good indication of the quality of it's design and I haven't found anything to have a higher tolerance for clipping than the Prisms.

I will gladly do the Prism tests and provide an ITB mix file for whoever wants to (hopefully) do the same test with an Eclipse 384. I would be more than happy to include other high end converters that people would like to contribute, so just let me know if you are interested and I'll post up a test file.
Old 6th November 2013
  #2
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subscribed



Cheu
Old 6th November 2013
  #3
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Omg yess

Would love to hear from

Prism
Antelope (eclipse and orion)
Symphony
Hilo
horus
Dad
Iz ada
Old 6th November 2013
  #4
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DAD and Weiss are two others I would REALLY like to hear.
Old 7th November 2013
  #5
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No takers? If this Antelope stuff is as good as people say it is, it would be nice to hear it. Especially against a Prism, which is certainly a high end converter competing for the same market share.
Old 5th January 2014
  #6
I'd love to hear!
A.
Old 6th January 2014
  #7
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newnes's Avatar
 

I have the Eclipse and I'd be willing to do a loopback test. I'd definitely be curious to hear how it stacks up against the Prism...
Old 6th January 2014
  #8
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I've actually done this test but I will have to see if I can get permission to post the results. I'll see what I can do!
Old 6th January 2014
  #9
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Subscribed!
Old 6th January 2014
  #10
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spencerc did promise to post a loop back test today with the Eclipse comparing with and without the 10m clock.

I own the Eclipse I am very happy with it...
Old 7th January 2014
  #11
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So here we go! This test was done by running a reference mix through the various convertors at even level and then boosting the input on the AD convertor by 1db to see how it sounds under light to extreme clipping circumstances. No outboard gear was in the chain, just XLR out and back in.

Both Prism files used the DA in the Prism ADA-8XR and the AD-2 was clocked to the ADA-8XR (which I preferred to the AD-2 internal clock anyway). The Eclipse files were printed with the Eclipse AD/DA and the Eclipse clock.

The files are in dual mono at 44.1k/32 bit so they will need to be loaded into the DAW of your choice. Also, I just dragged the files out of my Audio Files folder to avoid any potential differences in the way different DAW's bounce down files.

I included the Original File so people can do the tests with their own convertors, although it can be difficult or sometimes impossible for other convertors to adjust their input levels accurately.

The link:
Directory Listing of /prismeclipseadda/

Enjoy!
Old 8th January 2014
  #12
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Immersion's Avatar
Good work, really looking forward to hear all opinions about since I am also an Eclipse owner...
Old 8th January 2014
  #13
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shayneallen's Avatar
 

Any chance to get the original file so we can run our own loop back tests for comparison?
Thx!
Old 8th January 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayneallen View Post
Any chance to get the original file so we can run our own loop back tests for comparison?
Thx!
It's included.
Old 8th January 2014
  #15
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Cool, I'll try to do the Eclipse +/- 10m with this tomorrow
Old 8th January 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Cool, I'll try to do the Eclipse +/- 10m with this tomorrow
That would be great! The DA was calibrated to +18 to start and the AD started at 18 as well. When I demoed the Eclipse it seemed to want to switch the DA volume setting to different volume standards in the software panel (not sure if that makes sense) so just make sure your initial 18/18 test is in the same volume range as mine.
Old 8th January 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Cool, I'll try to do the Eclipse +/- 10m with this tomorrow
you are a hero, many people have waiting for many years
Old 8th January 2014
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
It's included.
Great.. thanks! I shoulda looked before I asked.
Old 9th January 2014
  #19
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I am very curious to hear people's thoughts on these tests. I can honestly say that the sound the convertors exhibit in these tests is VERY indicative of their real world performance.

Also, I would love to hear this test done with a DAD, JCF, Merging Horus, or any other high end convertor option.
Old 9th January 2014
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
I am very curious to hear people's thoughts on these tests. I can honestly say that the sound the convertors exhibit in these tests is VERY indicative of their real world performance.

Also, I would love to hear this test done with a DAD, JCF, Merging Horus, or any other high end convertor option.
looking forward to hear too..

also spencers test with the 10m clock.
Old 9th January 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post

I generally like to test converters by starting with the DA/AD at 18db, running a mix out from the DA directly to the AD and recording it back in. Then after that I just increase the gain on the AD in 1db increments and push the converters WELL into clipping to see how they react.
This kind of test shows some things of converters but not everything. The weak point is the audio file you use. This is an already converted thing from an analog source. The quality of this file has big influence on the result. the worse it is the less differences you will hear between loop back of different converters.

That´s why I prefer AD-DA loops. Here you can compare the result with the true analog source.

But ok, a DA-AD loop can also give you some results worth doing the test.

Quote:
The way a converter handles extreme clipping is a good indication of the quality of it's design
Hmm, the EMM Labs ADC8 is a really good converter. But it doesn´t like to be overdriven too much. Clipping tolerance shows something. But I wouldn´t say the better the clipping behaviour the better the converter. Reasons for a high Clipping tolerance can be different - analog curcuits, DSP settings, One Bit or Mulit bit designs.
The results with a DSD converter like the Meitner are more dependent from input levels than with more usual designs. Feeding it with the right level gives you really reallygreat results but to overdrive it will be ugly.

Back to the Loops. Wouldn´t it be a good idea to make the Loop-Back also with other sampling frequences than only 44,1? This also would give some information hew the converters work at different sample rates.
Old 10th January 2014
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
This kind of test shows some things of converters but not everything. The weak point is the audio file you use. This is an already converted thing from an analog source. The quality of this file has big influence on the result. the worse it is the less differences you will hear between loop back of different converters.
Of course this test doesn't show EVERYTHING. No test does and I never claimed this one does. However given my extensive use of the convertors in this test, I can say that the results of this mix through the AD/DA loops is very accurate to their general results.

Also, the original mix file I used was sent to me by someone else and was printed from a console. Although I understand your point about using an ITB file, this workflow is very real world and totally applicable. Any mix done on a console that is sent off for mastering has been through this AD stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
Hmm, the EMM Labs ADC8 is a really good converter. But it doesn´t like to be overdriven too much. Clipping tolerance shows something. But I wouldn´t say the better the clipping behaviour the better the converter. Reasons for a high Clipping tolerance can be different - analog curcuits, DSP settings, One Bit or Mulit bit designs.
The results with a DSD converter like the Meitner are more dependent from input levels than with more usual designs. Feeding it with the right level gives you really reallygreat results but to overdrive it will be ugly.
This test does a straight loopback test with no clipping in it as well, so the overall sound of one generation of AD/DA can easily be taken into account, even if a certain convertor does not clip well, there is perspective to be gathered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
Back to the Loops. Wouldn´t it be a good idea to make the Loop-Back also with other sampling frequences than only 44,1? This also would give some information hew the converters work at different sample rates.
Again, I am not claiming this test covers every possible scenario. It started as a simple test for a prospective buyer of my AD-2 and since I no longer have the AD-2 or the Eclipse, it is my only point of reference for hearing other convertor loopbacks in comparison. And AGAIN, as a person who used all of these convertors extensively, I feel that this test was VERY telling as to their differences as a whole.
Old 10th January 2014
  #23
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I'm sorry guys, haven't had a chance to sort my loopback stereo image shift problem.

I promise as soon as I do I'll do that loopback!!!
Old 10th January 2014
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
I'm sorry guys, haven't had a chance to sort my loopback stereo image shift problem.

I promise as soon as I do I'll do that loopback!!!
great looking forward to hear it.
Old 15th January 2014
  #25
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So it seemed as though there was quite a bit of interest in this test, but I have yet to get any feedback from GS members.

Bump?
Old 16th January 2014
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
So it seemed as though there was quite a bit of interest in this test, but I have yet to get any feedback from GS members.

Bump?
Yes I am surprised there is no buzz usually loopbacktest generate a lot of posts.
Old 16th January 2014
  #27
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Ah sorry guys, just been slammed and been working in a different room for the last few days. I will do this soon!!!!
Old 16th January 2014
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Ah sorry guys, just been slammed and been working in a different room for the last few days. I will do this soon!!!!
great man
Old 16th January 2014
  #29
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I'm stoked to hear the 10M/no 10M test for sure but I have yet to get any thoughts on the test. I suppose it would be more accessible to people if they could just listen without having to load the files into their DAW, but I still expected a bit more interest.
Old 16th January 2014
  #30
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yes, it would be better if we did not have to load a lot of files in the daw in chronological order etc... I think it might scare away some people
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