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API The box?
Old 29th November 2013
  #91
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Vintageidiot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS View Post
once more here is a lot of talk but who really worked/mixed with this thing ?
+100

Without ever having worked on this new build how can anyone offer up comments???? Does a disservice to the manufacturer and the GS community.
Old 29th November 2013
  #92
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintageidiot View Post
+100

Without ever having worked on this new build how can anyone offer up comments???? Does a disservice to the manufacturer and the GS community.
Have you ever used a 1608? If so...you have a good idea of what THE BOX is going to sound like. The 1608 is going to be a bit bigger, but it's got a bit more going on by way of electronics on every channel.

These are not unrelated products. It's not crazy to talk a bit of shop if you get into the manual either. What is nuts is ignoring a similar product which would be just as good...if not better...for $10,000 less out of mere brand loyalty.
Old 29th November 2013
  #93
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Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I would bet money that most anyone would pick the Great River after shooting it out with THE BOX and the SSL mentioned above in a blind test. I totally concur with your sentiment...but people love their brand names. This is why Americans drink Budweiser and Miller. Even though they're ****e as my friends from the U.K. would say.
If Great River made a Mixmaster in a small console format, with inserts, that would win.... and the UPS truck would be on its way to my studio right now.
Old 29th November 2013
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by psykostx View Post
If Great River made a Mixmaster in a small console format, with inserts, that would win.... and the UPS truck would be on its way to my studio right now.
The Great River MM20 does have insert points for the first 4 input channels and the Stereo Mix Bus. It was designed to be connected to a patch bay, so that any equipment could be "inserted" on the way to the recorder, or on the back end of the mix. So you can insert outboard gear while you are tracking with channels 1-4's direct outputs. Additionally you can just patch stems from stereo or mono DAC channels to outboard gear patched into input 5-20 of the MM20.

The Intention was that one day you might be tracking with the first four channels, patching your gear on the way to the AD converters, monitoring without any latency, the next day you are mixing with every piece in the rack. You can send two sets of effects out with the Four Mono Aux Outputs of Channel's 1-4. Then you would return the Stereo Efx Units to Channels 17/18, 19/20. Then in mixing, you can use Ch. 1-4 for all important elements again inserting equipment as you see fit. Mix with Stems or Mono Elements to all channels 1-16, and keep your stereo effects units on 17/18, 19/20.

Then when the clients want to skip around from mixing to tracking, you can use the snap shot recall feature of the MM20 to mix "ITB", with a pair of DAW outputs and track against a music bed without latency and some effects. It was intended as a "Mini" Split console in a rack. Those who have purchased them, seem to enjoy them a lot. At least in my experience.


peace
a.j.b
Old 29th November 2013
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psykostx View Post
If Great River made a Mixmaster in a small console format, with inserts, that would win.... and the UPS truck would be on its way to my studio right now.
Like the Speck LILO ( though it doesn't have preamps)

I must admit while I don't have any interest in "the box", I do like this "mini console" direction as opposed to the prior summing direction- industrywise. I see no point in summing without analog auxes, inserts and groups....

But the box name is, as pointed out many times, horrible... Like they would sell it at Target....

And it's design looks pretty obtrusive... I prefer a lower profile.
Old 29th November 2013
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
The Great River MM20 does have insert points for the first 4 input channels and the Stereo Mix Bus. It was designed to be connected to a patch bay, so that any equipment could be "inserted" on the way to the recorder, or on the back end of the mix. So you can insert outboard gear while you are tracking with channels 1-4's direct outputs. Additionally you can just patch stems from stereo or mono DAC channels to outboard gear patched into input 5-20 of the MM20.

The Intention was that one day you might be tracking with the first four channels, patching your gear on the way to the AD converters, monitoring without any latency, the next day you are mixing with every piece in the rack. You can send two sets of effects out with the Four Mono Aux Outputs of Channel's 1-4. Then you would return the Stereo Efx Units to Channels 17/18, 19/20. Then in mixing, you can use Ch. 1-4 for all important elements again inserting equipment as you see fit. Mix with Stems or Mono Elements to all channels 1-16, and keep your stereo effects units on 17/18, 19/20.

Then when the clients want to skip around from mixing to tracking, you can use the snap shot recall feature of the MM20 to mix "ITB", with a pair of DAW outputs and track against a music bed without latency and some effects. It was intended as a "Mini" Split console in a rack. Those who have purchased them, seem to enjoy them a lot. At least in my experience.


peace
a.j.b
Adam. You are genius.

Also I didn't catch that the mono channels could be used that way from the tech spec manual. Honestly...I'm totally convinced it's a superior product now.
Old 30th November 2013
  #97
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If api left out the pre amps, compressor, and 500 series slots, and just made it a 24x8x2 , routing / summing system with aux sends / returns, monitor control, etc, etc, i would be drooling all over it.

I guess manufacturers dont want to step on the feet of their console sales. You would think a company that doesnt make a console would have done this already.
Old 30th November 2013
  #98
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smackmastering's Avatar
Still think SSL nailed this with the X-Desk and Lego Studio model. I have a API lunch box feeding the X-Desk channels with pres/EQ/Comps. Even better, SSL had the X-Desk expander on sale for only $1K yesterday. Picked that up, so for $4K (3K for the X-Desk and $1 for the expander), I have 24 tracks of summing. Add in the around $4K of 500 modules, I have a set-up that costs me $8K with basically all of the features of "The Box" but with SSL summing.

With all that said, I like "The Box". I haven't seen it, but the API video they did in Nashville was pretty impressive. With working out of my home 80% of the time, I can't put down $18K for a summing console. The SSL Lego Studio model really nailed what I need and allowed me to grow my home studio. I wished API would have done that.
Old 30th November 2013
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerchunis View Post
If api left out the pre amps, compressor, and 500 series slots, and just made it a 24x8x2 , routing / summing system with aux sends / returns, monitor control, etc, etc, i would be drooling all over it.

I guess manufacturers dont want to step on the feet of their console sales. You would think a company that doesnt make a console would have done this already.
well if you're serious - here a good alternative..

API DSM-24 Rackmount Summing Mixer System (Used) | Soniccircus.com
Old 30th November 2013
  #100
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Sino's Avatar
 

From my POV:

Too much money for a summing mixer (if you want to call it "console" add VERY-VERY-VERY Limited before)

They probably needed a commercial "refresh", I saw they took out the 8200 from their website.
It's a pitty because I find 8200 was cheaper and an amazing unit but probably it didn't sell so much units due to the fact that it's just 8 channel for about the same price of any 16ch summing mixer out there. Don't know if it's going to sell a lot.
Old 1st December 2013
  #101
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With so many alternatives with better or equal features and sounds, at lower prices, it looks like The Box is going to be a lemon. If API had just made a couple changes, and the price was closer to ten grand, or even twelve, I would give it real thought. FX returns and expandability would help. Especially if that included some empty or changeable 500 Series slots. As it looks now, it is a nice looking paper weight for studios who need something, anything, to look professional.

Not unlike that Slate touchscreen behemoth which is a pretty looking TV that displays your DAW mixer screen without really doing much.

I'll pass, thanks.
Old 1st December 2013
  #102
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Have yet to see another small console or summing box that has made me regret my SSL Matrix purchase. I got mine for 15k used so cheaper than this bad boy but even at $21k new there are just so many upgrades worth paying for. Such as:

2 inputs per channel (make it a 32 input console if you choose to use the stereo cue as returns for 17-32. Even if you don't, kind of nice to have record and mix modes changeable on individual channels.

Automation - freakin' huge! I'f I'm going to "sum" in the outside world I can't stand to just leave the faders at zero - I want to mix! So nice to automate post analog compression.

Daw Control - see above - even mixing to 16 channels in the box or while recording so nice to have faders and buttons.

1 stereo cue and 4 mono aux sends with 4 stereo returns that don't eat up faders

Total recall - once you get used to it, hard to do a session without it. So great if you hop from project to project throughout the day

Insert Matrix - rad!

Meters - Yep, I like meters. I like them on every channel!

3 "master busses" (well, 2 dedicated and 1 if you use the cue mix) all with insert points and, in the case of rec and cue busses, ability to return to mix buss.

Monitor section - can monitor rec bus, mix bus, 2 analog stereo inputs, and digital input and any combo of them at once. Great "artist mix" section that can monitor any of the previously listed paths and has eq for tailoring the eq to the performer without diving into your mix.

Ergonomics - I like the looks of the stand up and show your stuff consoles but where do you put your monitor?


The box - having 4 mic pres, 4 eqs and 2 comps is where The Box adds it's value in a big way if 4 inputs is all you need. I mean, at $600 a pre (if you bought a 3124), average $650 per eq and $1000 for each of the two comps, if you're going to use them then that's $7000 off the top which makes all of it's other features come to $10k. What you save here, though, you give up in expansion of variety but, hey, a good patch bay would help a lot and if the thing really sounds great and you keep those faders at zero then it's not really a bad option for a lot of people! However, the lack of metering and not have a mic and line input select on each channel is a bit of a deal killer for some. When these pop up used (and they will because their features are so limiting that it won't take much to grow out of) they are going to make a lot of project studio owes very happy!

For me, it all comes down to workflow and this would get in my way, I think. The SSL stays out of my way and let's me interact directly with the music and if I want a little API vibe to the overall sound I just put my 2500 on the 2 buss!
Old 19th December 2013
  #103
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by july142 View Post
i hit the back button after $17k
lmbo!!!!! Funny
Old 19th December 2013
  #104
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There's an in depth review in this months sound on sound.
Old 19th December 2013
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan View Post
Yeah if this was under $10k I'd be interested. $17k is little steep for what this offers I feel.
Even at 10K i think it would be steep.
Not much i could do with this, and now that i've heard of DIY modules i could get this sound for a small fraction of the price.
Sadly, as anything that isn't distributed directly, most of the price is VAT & retailer/distributor margin, the product itself rarely costs more to make than you pay in VAT.
Old 30th December 2013
  #106
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I think the name's a mistake, makes it seem like a gimmick. For that money it should have a more pretentious name. They're in the dream selling business after all.
Old 31st December 2013
  #107
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Aaron Miller's Avatar
I'm the demographic for this sort of thing and wouldn't give it a second look. I'd go with an SSL X-Desk, used Matrix, SPL Neos, Spec LiLo, etc. The problem with it--besides the cost--is that it's trying to throw in a little bit of everything instead of just doing 1 or 2 limited things really well.
Old 5th January 2014
  #108
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Gravity8058's Avatar
 

Yeah, the name/ logo are really awful-
Old 5th January 2014
  #109
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Gravity8058's Avatar
 

Prospective artists could mistake it for the famous API lunchBOX. "Why go there, I have an API box at home....."
Old 5th January 2014
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerchunis View Post
If api left out the pre amps, compressor, and 500 series slots, and just made it a 24x8x2 , routing / summing system with aux sends / returns, monitor control, etc, etc, i would be drooling all over it.

I guess manufacturers dont want to step on the feet of their console sales. You would think a company that doesnt make a console would have done this already.
I totally agree with you
Old 5th January 2014
  #111
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So half of you think there's not enough channels...the other half doesn't see the need for pre/compressor/EQ .
I brought in our first The Box and it is in the hands of a client with 3 SSL rooms...a 5088 and a Icon suite. Initially they thought they would drop a bucket off the Icon and marry the 2 in a hybrid system..but they like the sound so much they're thinking of a 1608..but would like to incorporate their 827...I think they are now regretting selling their 64 channel Legacy w/uptown moving faders.
The Box will probably go to the owners home studio...where as designed...he can record some parts...make a mix and have finished product.
He does Reggae and now realizes just how big & rich the bottom is outta API and wants that back.
Old 5th January 2014
  #112
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Anyone else actually buy one of these?
Old 12th January 2014
  #113
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Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

I might be all in on this...

To my surprise, I am now very seriously considering this Box..

I run a small studio which will expand a little bit in the future.. I've got some nice pres like Fearn, A-designs, 3124, a couple of world class compressors, Barefoot monitors and an 8x8 burl mothership with a few excellent mics.. so I was looking for something with pedigree that would fit in with that level of gear and not add some weak link. I've been looking for something that will tie it all together as a centerpiece, offer a solid replacement for my Big Knob for monitoring, allow me to integrate a small amount of top shelf outboard, improve tracking session workflow, give me a little bit of wow factor for clients, and give me analog summing with vibe, in the area of 20 - 25 k.. I'm very far financially from making OTB mixes and I hate buying used..This might just be the ticket..

Although I initially instantly discarded it the way many here seem to be for many reasons. Real deal high end consoles are too costly to get in the door, and I want high end sonics. Although it's clear to me this is not a "forever" console, it would serve me like a workhorse for years, and once I outgrow it, it would make a fantastic studio B centerpiece or would probably be easy to sell without taking too much of a hit.

I personally think the price is fair for what you get. But it's exactly fair, I would not claim it's great value for the money.

It's not that cool looking but it is kinda cute

Hmm.... i just might....
Old 16th January 2014
  #114
Here for the gear
 

Like many others, I wonder who The Box is being marketed to. As a burgeoning “project studio” owner, my immediate reaction when seeing the ads was, “This is perfect—it’s exactly what I need. A mini console!” Of course, that was at first glance--I took a quick look and had this hopeful expectation of 16 mic pres...

So, The Box won’t be of much use to someone just starting a studio. And it doesn’t seem to be the missing piece of the puzzle for anyone who already has a well-functioning studio. I’m wondering who’s saying, “Boom, this is EXACTLY what I need.”

Anybody own it yet, btw? Thoughts?
Old 16th January 2014
  #115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
To my surprise, I am now very seriously considering this Box..

snipped....

Hmm.... i just might....
+1

I think so too !

R.
Old 18th January 2014
  #116
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Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonparanoid View Post
Like many others, I wonder who The Box is being marketed to. As a burgeoning “project studio” owner, my immediate reaction when seeing the ads was, “This is perfect—it’s exactly what I need. A mini console!” Of course, that was at first glance--I took a quick look and had this hopeful expectation of 16 mic pres...
Well at 16 pres, you'd almost have an unloaded 1608. The Box with 12 more pres would also cost almost 12 000 $ more.
Old 18th January 2014
  #117
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Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonparanoid View Post
I’m wondering who’s saying, “Boom, this is EXACTLY what I need.”

Anybody own it yet, btw? Thoughts?
I am. It's exactly what I need as a small studio who still has no high-end summing, monitoring, mix bus compressor or centrepiece to tie everything together. It's got name recognition, build quality, irreproachable sonics. At a great price.

Not sure why anyone would want this to be some kind of API Lilo. Sort of defeats the API purpose.

It's exactly what I need because since I'm already been in operation for a few years, I already have 8 ch. of high end preamps, so I have no interest in paying for 16 more preamps. Getting a desk with just 4 API pres is perfect for me as it brings my channel count to 12 which is a sweet spot for me. Since it's only 4 ch. it keeps the cost reasonable. And it's preamps I actually have interest in owning unlike a lot of other preamps in affordable desks like Neoteks or Audients or whatever. Since I already have a 3124 it brings my API count to 8 ch. Perfect. In addition I get 2 API compressors and EQs, which is pretty sweet since I only have 2 outboard compressors and 1 EQ.

Since I'm years away from accumulating enough outboard to make any headway in mixing OTB the limited routing is actually a plus as I'm not paying for signal path I won't need for the next decade. And when I do I can look at other options and sell The Box as it will hold resale value or move it into another room as the most elegant little studio B ever.

It also addresses other workflow issues like ease of headphone mixes and the ability to ride a fader level into PT.

I don't understand people complaining about the price. I worked it out and after you remove the obvious pieces like the pres and EQs etc, it basically comes to 4500 $ for the frame, VUs, faders, lights, switches, auxes and signal paths, and wow factor. Sounds like a great deal to me.

I'm in the process of making ownership happen.
Old 18th January 2014
  #118
The more I have a focus on that API Box, so much the better.

It is everything there what a great summingbox needs.
Including Aux sends, inserts and so one.....

R.
Old 18th January 2014
  #119
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Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf Ebitsch View Post
The more I have a focus on that API Box, so much the better.

It is everything there what a great summingbox needs.
Including Aux sends, inserts and so one.....

R.
Absolutely!

And for me the greatest benefit is the way it will improve my tracking workflow and the top shelf monitor section.

I think it's a home run in terms of feature-set vs price for a small-mid level studio aspiring to bigger things.
Old 19th January 2014
  #120
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The more I've thought about "the box" the more I can see it working for some folks. I added up the equivalent system with tonelux modules including faders and it would be about $24,000. You could easily take the box and add 8 or 16 more pres on a patchbay to the direct ins on the summing side. This would give you plenty of inputs for tracking and they would be available on the cuing system.

I am assuming, because I haven't been able to find out for sure, that the summing section is not just a clean straight wire construction. If it can get that pushed API sound in the direct channels this is a real winner.
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