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API The box?
Old 20th October 2013
  #31
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It's too expensive. 10k of it is name brand...
Old 20th October 2013
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
10k of it is name brand...
yeah, has to be

not to go off, but I would think a console like that with PS an summing electronics could be made for well under a couple thousand, no problem. Especially now where 500 series is so common.
Old 20th October 2013
  #33
I have a difficult time getting my head around all the complaints about pricing here. Let's take a step back...

An API 1608 with 16 channels, no automation, loaded costs $52,400. Unloaded it costs $38,810. That's $3275 and $2425 per channel, respectively. It's a very popular console that delivers high-end results.

The Harrison 950m, which also rocks in the same range but with different features and ergonomics, prices 16 mono channels at $28,053, or about $1753/channel.

It's a bit hard to find the pricing for the The SSL Matrix2, but the Matrix seems to have sold for around $23,000, or about $1437/channel.

The Box comes in at $17,995 for 16 channels, which is $1124/channel, less than half the cost per channel of an unloaded 1608. That's a breakthrough price for API sound with a console-like format. Yes, it's less functional than a 1608...if you want the functionality of a 1608, get a 1608. But for those who want real API summing at project studio pricing, The Box delivers.

From what many of you are saying, it sounds like you expect a high-end summing mixer--with console-like features--to price at less than $500/channel. The gut-check I would ask is "how high-end is that?"

The Speck LiLo comes closest to this (16 channels for $9990, or $624/channel), with a very minimalist design. The Box from API clearly has more functionality than that (as do the other products mentioned), and none of them are exorbitantly price. Rather, they are priced to deliver high-end results, which, presumably, the readers of this forum would appreciate.
Old 20th October 2013
  #34
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Unknown soldier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I have a difficult time getting my head around all the complaints about pricing here. Let's take a step back...

An API 1608 with 16 channels, no automation, loaded costs $52,400. Unloaded it costs $38,810. That's $3275 and $2425 per channel, respectively. It's a very popular console that delivers high-end results.

The Harrison 950m, which also rocks in the same range but with different features and ergonomics, prices 16 mono channels at $28,053, or about $1753/channel.

It's a bit hard to find the pricing for the The SSL Matrix2, but the Matrix seems to have sold for around $23,000, or about $1437/channel.

The Box comes in at $17,995 for 16 channels, which is $1124/channel, less than half the cost per channel of an unloaded 1608. That's a breakthrough price for API sound with a console-like format. Yes, it's less functional than a 1608...if you want the functionality of a 1608, get a 1608. But for those who want real API summing at project studio pricing, The Box delivers.

From what many of you are saying, it sounds like you expect a high-end summing mixer--with console-like features--to price at less than $500/channel. The gut-check I would ask is "how high-end is that?"

The Speck LiLo comes closest to this (16 channels for $9990, or $624/channel), with a very minimalist design. The Box from API clearly has more functionality than that (as do the other products mentioned), and none of them are exorbitantly price. Rather, they are priced to deliver high-end results, which, presumably, the readers of this forum would appreciate.
I still think the 16 channels of sum inputs could have been done differently. You can't use outboard FX without having some of these inputs as FX returns. Personally, If I were to get something like this, I would expect to be able to use outboard FX AND get 16 channels of input for tracks. How much more $$$ would it have been to include FX returns? I would have been OK without the four "super" channels with the API EQ/500 slots, since most have outboard already.

It just seems like a strange compromise between a console and a summing mixer.
Old 20th October 2013
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I have a difficult time getting my head around all the complaints about pricing here. Let's take a step back...

An API 1608 with 16 channels, no automation, loaded costs $52,400. Unloaded it costs $38,810. That's $3275 and $2425 per channel, respectively. It's a very popular console that delivers high-end results.

The Harrison 950m, which also rocks in the same range but with different features and ergonomics, prices 16 mono channels at $28,053, or about $1753/channel.

It's a bit hard to find the pricing for the The SSL Matrix2, but the Matrix seems to have sold for around $23,000, or about $1437/channel.

The Box comes in at $17,995 for 16 channels, which is $1124/channel, less than half the cost per channel of an unloaded 1608. That's a breakthrough price for API sound with a console-like format. Yes, it's less functional than a 1608...if you want the functionality of a 1608, get a 1608. But for those who want real API summing at project studio pricing, The Box delivers.

From what many of you are saying, it sounds like you expect a high-end summing mixer--with console-like features--to price at less than $500/channel. The gut-check I would ask is "how high-end is that?"

The Speck LiLo comes closest to this (16 channels for $9990, or $624/channel), with a very minimalist design. The Box from API clearly has more functionality than that (as do the other products mentioned), and none of them are exorbitantly price. Rather, they are priced to deliver high-end results, which, presumably, the readers of this forum would appreciate.
The point is that it's not a very flexible design, looks cheap and is only suitable for a small range of studio uses. That price is, to me, absolutely nuts when you look at offerings from companies like Audient. I have no idea what kind of 'project studio' can afford to spend that kind of money on a console with a limited feature set.
Old 20th October 2013
  #36
Lives for gear
for the price,

i'm surprised it doesn't have flying faders or at least some simple form of midi/usb control on 4 or so of the channels so it can also be used for itb mixing/ daw control.

I guess everyone has their own take on things but that's a shock for me.
Old 20th October 2013
  #37
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For 19 grand I would get a SSL e with 56 channels of a real mixer
Old 20th October 2013
  #38
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

@Superburtm... where might one find a 56 Ch E for that price?

Wiggy
Old 20th October 2013
  #39
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superburtm's Avatar
 

My buddy just bought one out of a studio in north Hollywood for that price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
@Superburtm... where might one find a 56 Ch E for that price?

Wiggy
Old 20th October 2013
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiopo View Post
The point is that it's not a very flexible design, looks cheap and is only suitable for a small range of studio uses. That price is, to me, absolutely nuts when you look at offerings from companies like Audient. I have no idea what kind of 'project studio' can afford to spend that kind of money on a console with a limited feature set.
+1.
Old 20th October 2013
  #41
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People here seem to be getting quality mixed up with features..

An Audient has no tone...

SSL X desk - no tone..

API - Going by the manual, full of transformers and op amps.. - tone..

I'd take the console sound any day..

Comparing an Audient and x desk to an API is
Old 20th October 2013
  #42
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
No aux returns kills it for me.
Yes, among a host of other shortcomings. Or wait, I guess that's negative on my part. Let's call them design misdirections. Wait, that's kinda negative too. OK, I'll just say it's not what I'd want to see. The 1608 is closer, but still, doesn't hit the nail on the head for me either.
Old 20th October 2013
  #43
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
It just seems like a strange compromise between a console and a summing mixer.
Yeah, one foot on either side of the line. Too expensive to be called a "summing box/mixer", too compromised to be called a real mixer. Maybe there are some people out there who it's perfect for, but I don't know them.
Old 20th October 2013
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
People here seem to be getting quality mixed up with features..

An Audient has no tone...

SSL X desk - no tone..

API - Going by the manual, full of transformers and op amps.. - tone..

I'd take the console sound any day..

Comparing an Audient and x desk to an API is
Not really sure how you can say an Audient ASP has 'no tone'. Have you used one?

If you really wanted the API sound then there are plenty of affordable lunchbox options. It's a huge amount of money for something aimed at project studios, and I can't see larger facilities buying one as the feature set is so limited and, to me, it looks cheap. I think they'd be more likely to buy a second hand big name console for that money..

Quality, features and budget all interplay. And if there are some rich dudes out there just after quality, I don't think they'd buy that (think drbill summed it up the best). You have to factor in the extra costs of adding all the features to your setup that this console doesn't provide..

Before they announced the price in the SOS vid I was really expecting it to be around $6-7k..
Old 20th October 2013
  #45
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
People here seem to be getting quality mixed up with features..

An Audient has no tone...

SSL X desk - no tone..

API - Going by the manual, full of transformers and op amps.. - tone..

I'd take the console sound any day..

Comparing an Audient and x desk to an API is
Audient preamps are great, maybe not API great but then you get 16 of them on the 4816 along with 3 band EQ on each channel for half the price of The Box.

Sent from my HTC One
Old 20th October 2013
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maldini View Post
Audient preamps are great, maybe not API great but then you get 16 of them on the 4816 along with 3 band EQ on each channel for half the price of The Box.

Sent from my HTC One
Precisely what I was thinking. Plus comprehensive routing and, likewise, a decent buss compressor.
Old 20th October 2013
  #47
7+1
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7+1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
People here seem to be getting quality mixed up with features..

An Audient has no tone...

SSL X desk - no tone..

API - Going by the manual, full of transformers and op amps.. - tone..

I'd take the console sound any day..

Comparing an Audient and x desk to an API is
This is a hilariously ridiculous statement..
Old 20th October 2013
  #48
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chrisrulesmore's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I have a difficult time getting my head around all the complaints about pricing here. Let's take a step back...

An API 1608 with 16 channels, no automation, loaded costs $52,400. Unloaded it costs $38,810. That's $3275 and $2425 per channel, respectively. It's a very popular console that delivers high-end results.

The Harrison 950m, which also rocks in the same range but with different features and ergonomics, prices 16 mono channels at $28,053, or about $1753/channel.

It's a bit hard to find the pricing for the The SSL Matrix2, but the Matrix seems to have sold for around $23,000, or about $1437/channel.

The Box comes in at $17,995 for 16 channels, which is $1124/channel, less than half the cost per channel of an unloaded 1608. That's a breakthrough price for API sound with a console-like format. Yes, it's less functional than a 1608...if you want the functionality of a 1608, get a 1608. But for those who want real API summing at project studio pricing, The Box delivers.

From what many of you are saying, it sounds like you expect a high-end summing mixer--with console-like features--to price at less than $500/channel. The gut-check I would ask is "how high-end is that?"

The Speck LiLo comes closest to this (16 channels for $9990, or $624/channel), with a very minimalist design. The Box from API clearly has more functionality than that (as do the other products mentioned), and none of them are exorbitantly price. Rather, they are priced to deliver high-end results, which, presumably, the readers of this forum would appreciate.
You need to define 'channel'. There is a hell of a big difference between a channel strip featuring line/mic/di/eq than a line input on a summing mixer.

My Aurora Sidecar is ten channels of mic pre/di, four band eq, high and low pass filters, P&G fader, analog vu metering, and stereo bus assign for almost the same price. Granted, they are very different products, but I know where I would put my money if I had the choice today. Using your logic, why not compare the price per channel to the Chandler MiniMixer or a Tonelux OTB16?

At the end of the day, for $18k you are getting four mic pres, two eq's, two comps, a summing mixer, and a monitor controller. I don't think the price is outrageous considering the API pedigree, but I do think it is priced very high for the functionality it provides.

Best,
Chris
Old 20th October 2013
  #49
16 channels of 8200 summing - $3600
7800 master section - 3600
2 525 Compressors - $2000
4 312 pres - $2600
2 550s - $2000


All in a nice console format with faders, factor in R&D, design, materials and the fact that it's API and I would say 18k is about right.

We all want a Neve for a grand but it's not going to happen.
Old 20th October 2013
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanvoth View Post
16 channels of 8200 summing - $3600
7800 master section - 3600
2 525 Compressors - $2000
4 312 pres - $2600
2 550s - $2000


All in a nice console format with faders, factor in R&D, design, materials and the fact that it's API and I would say 18k is about right.

We all want a Neve for a grand but it's not going to happen.
Those are already factored into the prices of the units you listed.
Old 21st October 2013
  #51
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Ryan Gregory's Avatar
 

One thing I will mention is that the Wunder Audio summing version is $18,000.... seems to have much less features than the Box
Old 21st October 2013
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisrulesmore View Post
You need to define 'channel'. There is a hell of a big difference between a channel strip featuring line/mic/di/eq than a line input on a summing mixer.

My Aurora Sidecar is ten channels of mic pre/di, four band eq, high and low pass filters, P&G fader, analog vu metering, and stereo bus assign for almost the same price. Granted, they are very different products, but I know where I would put my money if I had the choice today. Using your logic, why not compare the price per channel to the Chandler MiniMixer or a Tonelux OTB16?

At the end of the day, for $18k you are getting four mic pres, two eq's, two comps, a summing mixer, and a monitor controller. I don't think the price is outrageous considering the API pedigree, but I do think it is priced very high for the functionality it provides.

Best,
Chris
I do think the Aurora is a better deal for the money. I would go for that if I had to choose between the two.
Old 21st October 2013
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan View Post
Yeah if this was under $10k I'd be interested. $17k is little steep for what this offers I feel.
Exactly. Do any of you guys have any idea what $17k can buy you in the console world?..
Old 22nd October 2013
  #54
QRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
For 19 grand I would get a SSL e with 56 channels of a real mixer
api the box vs. ssl e series = different applications.
the api is aimed at smaller studios where nobody want to use/install a ssl e with 56 ch.
and count the money for more maintenance and the power a ssl E 56ch needs for the next, lets say, ten years in comparison to the api box...
cheers, matthias
Old 22nd October 2013
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS View Post
api the box vs. ssl e series = different applications.
the api is aimed at smaller studios where nobody want to use/install a ssl e with 56 ch.
and count the money for more maintenance and the power a ssl E 56ch needs for the next, lets say, ten years in comparison to the api box...
cheers, matthias


Small, ergonomic, genuin API sound. simple workflow to spend more time with the band and get better takes.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #56
Here for the gear
 

Maybe I read the schematic wrong, but it looked to me like each channel of the 16 summing inputs was not transformer coupled with its own line amp. (like the 8200 or a 1608). The was one transformer and line amp for all 16 channels. To me, that reduces the impact the API summing would have quite a bit....
Old 22nd October 2013
  #57
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I stand corrected! Thanks for the info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jshirks View Post
Transformer coupling for API direct outs happens AFTER the program summing feed thus having ZERO impact on summing nor do API line inputs have transformer input coupling at all.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #58
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I was running through my usual work scenarios and this console would be great for most tasks, however I feel they missed a key feature. Obviously everyone works differently, and I'm sure many will disagree with me, but...

I think having only 1 stereo bus would be limiting, considering there are 4 mono channels with EQs. I, (and imagine a few others) would run kick and snare through 2 of the 4 mono channels, then want to sum those with the rest of the kit (2 summing inputs for rest of kit from daw), and perhaps apply some bus compression and or EQ.

SSL matrix/ Sigma, RND summing mixer and quite a few others have 2 stereo buses that you can feed from one to another, therefore creating a usable work around for the scenario above.

Can anyone see a way of doing so with this console?
Old 23rd October 2013
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS View Post
api the box vs. ssl e series = different applications.
the api is aimed at smaller studios where nobody want to use/install a ssl e with 56 ch.
and count the money for more maintenance and the power a ssl E 56ch needs for the next, lets say, ten years in comparison to the api box...
cheers, matthias
Neve kelso anyone?? Calrec maybe? Mci 428? Give that API a few years, it's gonna need maintenance too.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #60
Gear Nut
 

This thing is backwards from any rational perspective. Nobody needs a summing mixer; it's just fad and fashion. What we need in the home world is input channels, routing and direct monitoring. This should have been 8 or more input channels with eq and compression and 4 busses. Maybe some auxes and we are all set. Sum in the box people...
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