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API The box?
Old 29th October 2018
  #451
Bigger question might be, Why are so many box users selling?
Old 29th October 2018
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
Bigger question might be, Why are so many box users selling?
I've seen more than a few move up to a 1608.
Old 30th October 2018
  #453
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This is only my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
Bigger question might be, Why are so many box users selling?
I think,

Some people buy it as a stepping stone to the 1608.

Some people are not sitting in front of it before they buy it and realize it's not for them.

Some people love it for 3 to 6 months and realize it's kind of awkward.

Most people that experienced a real LFC would sit in front of that and know it's missing a lot of what they love about a real board. Being able to spread a mix across every channel with eq's, bussing, echo sends/returns, spaced out faders, something you can lean into and feel. Not having to decide what tracks they're going to put on the 4 cool channels on the left with eq and the other 20 channels on the summing mixer side.

I think it's a weird layout that you constantly have to calculate & sacrifice.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there's people that absolutely love it. I know there is, I would of just liked to see basically what I posted above 12 channels exactly like the first two laid out from left to right and the master section and Stereo Comp on the right in a clean, uniformed, spaced, layout.

Atleast then you can track a full kit/small rock band for a front end and then come stereo stemmed/mono'd out on the back end with 12 channels of full eq and 4 aux, a Stereo Comp and master facilities. I posted a crude picture that I cut and pasted together on my iPhone a few posts back. That would be a great little powerful sidecar and for small studio setups a bad ass center piece that means business! This of course is just my opinion. I don't like the name "the box" either it just seems generic. If I'm dropping $15.k to $20.k on a small mixer I want a nice slice of the real deal boards. Yea it's less of everything but it's enough of everything too. Not a hodge podge of here ya go 4 pres, 2 eq's a Stereo Comp, and a summing mixer there's your toy box play with it bitch. Bahahahaha

I don't like the way the 2 open 500 slots don't exactly line up with first 2 eq's either.

I don't know maybe it's just not for me and I wish it was, but I know it's not.

Seems like a lot of people love it so what do I know.

I bet it sounds good.
Old 30th October 2018
  #454
Quote:
Originally Posted by 127Riot View Post
I think,

I would of just liked to see basically what I posted above 12 channels exactly like the first two laid out from left to right and the master section and Stereo Comp on the right in a clean, uniformed, spaced, layout.

I bet it sounds good.
I'd love this too. Then I'd probably want aux sends and channels for return... so.. basically a 1608 I think what we're all really saying is that we want a 1608 for less money, right?
Old 30th October 2018
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
I'd love this too. Then I'd probably want aux sends and channels for return... so.. basically a 1608 I think what we're all really saying is that we want a 1608 for less money, right?
Yeah, but the small footprint of The Box probably works for a lot of people compared to a 1608. I know a 1608 would be too huge for where I'm working(at home in my living room) even if I could afford it.

Perhaps a good thing to say would be "Don't buy The Box if what you really want is a 1608 and are hoping to spend less money"
Old 30th October 2018
  #456
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It's always great hearing how everyone else works and considers "ideal". I've kind of had the opposite experience of 127Riot. After working on a lot of really legitimate, big large format consoles (SSL 6k/9k, Various Neve 80 series, all the API's), I found I didn't really like the huge footprint and they all did WAY more than I would ever need for an ideal personal studio. Especially with the larger SSL's, rolling around in a chair to all the faders got old! It didn't inspire me or make me feel like a big boy, it just got on my nerves. The 1608 felt like the perfect "sized" console to me considering all the features packed into it, but it even felt large at times.

I found that I just didn't EQ or compress a whole lot during tracking. If I felt the need to reach for an EQ for some reason, I moved the mic or picked a different one. Same with compression, there are definitely times I find I need to compress while tracking, but again not enough to warrant it on every channel. The one thing I really liked about SSL consoles was the buss compressor, I absolutely fell in love with it and to this day is one of the few analog things I don't think the plugins have gotten close to. I loved having it over the master buss during tracking just to give everything life, and occasionally loved putting it on independent sources while tracking. That was about the only thing I liked about the SSL's. They just seemed needlessly complicated at times to do simple routing tasks, especially with the beast of the patch bays.

Having the opportunity to work on a lot of consoles like that pushed me to go all in for a bit production wise and pull out all the stops. I went too far at times, but it was a healthy learning curve and forced me to figure out what worked best for me. I found myself wanting to strip back the tracking process as much as possible and make things less complicated so I could focus more on what was actually going on in the room and what the musicians were doing. Instead of adding more mics to a drums set or EQing or compressing something more, maybe they need to tune the set a bit differently or play a different way. In a nutshell, there were lots of things I liked in different consoles, but most of it was just overkill for how I want to work. And on top of that, I found most projects came out a bit boring when using the same preamp and EQ/comp on everything. I found that especially true with the Neve's and SSL's. The projects I did on the API's never bothered me though, so that was a clear sign in my mind of what I liked and wanted to spend money on.

Ideally though, I never wanted more than 8 preamps at the most of the same thing, maybe 2-4 channels of EQ and a great stereo compressor for the master and the handful of times I need some for tracking. After that, the only other thing I liked about consoles was being able to take my eyes off the screen at times and just close my eyes and push some faders. At the very last part of mixing something I really enjoyed stem'ing out to a few faders, hitting an analog master buss just right and throwing just a bit of compression over it all. So for me, The Box was a dream come true and pretty much ticked every box on my list (aside from price, but I get it...). My days of 14 mic's on a drumset are over, but I'll still do MAYBE 8 occasionally. It would have been nice to have a few more preamps in it, but in all honesty it doesn't matter. It works for us "simple" folk, may actually let me avoid integrating a patch bay (At least for now. Ya, we'll see....), and gives me a handful of quality things that are easy to integrate with one another. And, it's a beautiful centerpiece. Not to mention the rabbit hole of how much cheaper it will be to run one for a month!
Old 2nd November 2018
  #457
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I read the manual but I'm still a bit confused on this... Has anyone tried putting a preamp in one of the 500 slots on The Box? It would be nice to throw another 2 preamps in there and take the input count up to 6 in front of you. I've always liked the Burl 500 series preamps, would be great to put a pair in there at some point. Was a little confused if the inputs/outputs for the 500 slot would remove it from channels 3/4 so I could still use the API pre's in tandem.
Old 28th November 2018
  #458
This is from a review on THE BOX by SoundOnSound.
One of the paragraphs they say they used a pre in the open slots.

"When assigned to a channel, some elaborate switching allows the 527 compressor module to be connected either pre or post the channel insert. This allows the compressor to be patched in to form two possible signal paths: preamp, compressor, EQ, insert send, insert return, fader; or preamp, EQ, insert send, insert return, compressor, fader."

Here is the link to the review.
API The Box |
Attached Thumbnails
API The box?-api-thebox-02b-ehdy7ldru3bowpc5eaoeitgp4nk.covh.jpg  
Old 30th November 2018
  #459
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For sale



API The Box Console
Attached Thumbnails
API The box?-245a6576-33ff-451e-b9e5-0b6c0d6afd45.jpg  
Old 1st December 2018
  #460
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I saw that one on reverb last night. I reached out and talked to him. At this point, Vintage King as offered me such a good deal on a new one that I'll probably just end up doing that in the next week or so.
Old 1st December 2018
  #461
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A very nice 1608 with automation and loaded on reverb as well. I’d love to upgrade mine but I’d have to sell the one I’ve got first
Old 4th December 2018
  #462
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Another Api the box on reverb if anyone is interested.
Attached Thumbnails
API The box?-7ad38567-778b-4a40-b894-948291ccc798.jpg  
Old 4th December 2018
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 127Riot View Post
Another Api the box on reverb if anyone is interested.
Would be a great deal for anyone in Canada. I haven't checked yet, but I'm not sure if there would be import duties. I asked reverb and they had no idea. He also keeps changing the prices and has doubled the shipping rate.
Old 4th December 2018
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Would be a great deal for anyone in Canada. I haven't checked yet, but I'm not sure if there would be import duties. I asked reverb and they had no idea. He also keeps changing the prices and has doubled the shipping rate.
A word of caution. As you said, Reverb is clueless in terms of tariffs and duties. I’d avoid buying anything of that size and value internationally through reverb.

Reverb tries to offer FedEx and UPS international shipping to sellers depending on location, but don’t fill out nor provide customs forms as should be done when shipping is brokered. Under NAFTA, those forms were cryptic and require government tariff/duty codes that are pages upon pages of very detailed product and commodity descriptions. USPS did it for you. NAFTA has now been scrapped and replaced and I’m sure it’s going to be more confusing for a few months at least. Or, maybe not.

All government tariff/duty codes are confusing. I had to get really familiar with those pertaining to instruments and recording gear in Taiwan.

Back to The Box
Old 4th December 2018
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
A word of caution. As you said, Reverb is clueless in terms of tariffs and duties. I’d avoid buying anything of that size and value internationally through reverb.

Reverb tries to offer FedEx and UPS international shipping to sellers depending on location, but don’t fill out nor provide customs forms as should be done when shipping is brokered. Under NAFTA, those forms were cryptic and require government tariff/duty codes that are pages upon pages of very detailed product and commodity descriptions. USPS did it for you. NAFTA has now been scrapped and replaced and I’m sure it’s going to be more confusing for a few months at least. Or, maybe not.

All government tariff/duty codes are confusing. I had to get really familiar with those pertaining to instruments and recording gear in Taiwan.

Back to The Box
That's what I was thinking. I chatted with Reverb for a while yesterday about this and told them that they needed to put more of an effort into handling situations like that. I also looked into fee's and what not just because I was curious. I can pretty much get a new one cheaper than I could import a used one from Canada (even if he gave me a REALLY good deal).

Someone needs to explain the logic behind this to me: Someone in Canada buys an API product that's made in American and ships it into Canada. They pay extra taxes and import fees because it's an American product. Then, someone like me wants to buy that product used from someone in Canada and bring it back to American where it originated. Now I have to pay the US Government AGAIN to bring in a product that was made here.

I give up. I'm just a stupid musician....
Old 5th December 2018
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
That's what I was thinking. I chatted with Reverb for a while yesterday about this and told them that they needed to put more of an effort into handling situations like that. I also looked into fee's and what not just because I was curious. I can pretty much get a new one cheaper than I could import a used one from Canada (even if he gave me a REALLY good deal).

Someone needs to explain the logic behind this to me: Someone in Canada buys an API product that's made in American and ships it into Canada. They pay extra taxes and import fees because it's an American product. Then, someone like me wants to buy that product used from someone in Canada and bring it back to American where it originated. Now I have to pay the US Government AGAIN to bring in a product that was made here.

I give up. I'm just a stupid musician....
I’m in that boat with you. For the record, I don’t know if you’d have to pay duties if you were to buy that one from Canada, but I wouldn’t want to find out. That would be a lot of money to pay upon delivery and that'd put our boat up **** creek with no paddle.

Besides, the shipping at $600+ To the US on that Box from Canada makes it more than a brand new here in the states with no discount.
Old 8th December 2018
  #467
Here for the gear
I recently also purchased the box used from vintage King back in June 2018. Getting burned on the import is pretty standard these days it seems... Anyways also living in Canada the same thing happened to me when buying the box used, along with trading in 6 512c's and 2 512 b's to vintage king as part of the box sale. So ultimately paid imports and taxees to buy new and then had to pay import fees in US currency to trade it in).. Except my money is **** and worthless. In any event, the box is great and I regret nothing. Could I have waited a few extra months and purchased the box used from the guy who literally lives an hour away from me? Yes however in the end I have exactly what I wanted which was one of the first few in production with the wood sides (here comes the chirping and ball busting).... So I have #12 and may be one of the few who feel this way about the sides of the box. Anyways the point is do what makes you happy and spend money on what you feel you deserve and can justify. The box may be a bit of a financial leap, but it's something I plan to keep forever if I'm not another one of those 1608 jumpers in the next 5-10 years, or try and find way to keep both.
Old 20th January 2019
  #468
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I’d prefer if this had 8x preamps and 8-16 returns with 500 slots on all channels. Oh and a 2500.

Then it would make more sense. No upgrades makes this a hit and miss. Although after reading the manual it will probably sound very beefy as it’s riddled with opamps and transformers.
Old 20th January 2019
  #469
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I think the sweet spot for many would be 8 slots for pre and or eq with patchable inserts and 24 faders for summing.

That’d be the half way house between the box as we know it and the 1608.
Old 20th January 2019
  #470
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It's already been pointed out, but... Unfortunately, something as awesome as that would offset 1608 sales too much. I doubt having 4 slots with nothing but 500 slots would cost that much more to make, even an 8 channel sidecar for the Box would probably sell well!
Old 24th January 2019
  #471
Gear Head
 

Welp, they went ahead and did it anyways: API: THE BOX Console
  • Eight (8) input channels with Mic Preamp, Line Input and Hi Pass Filter
  • Eight (8) 500 Series slots (1 per input channel)
  • Direct Out on Input Channels
  • On-Board Stereo Bus Compressor w/ ability to assign to program bus or input channels 1-4
  • Instrument Direct Inputs on channels 1-4
  • Sixteen (16) summing channels (24 channels during mix)
  • 0dB bypass switch for each summing channel
  • 4-Segment LED Metering on each summing channel
  • Stereo program bus with master fader, insert, and external input
  • One (1) stereo and (2) mono auxiliary sends/buses
  • Stereo cue send/bus & headphone system
  • PFL, AFL, and Solo-In-Place solo modes with stereo solo bus
  • Full-featured monitor section that supports two stereo monitor systems
  • Talkback system
  • Comprehensive rear panel connections with balanced inputs and outputs
  • Integrated power supply

Really impressive feature set.
Old 24th January 2019
  #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Someone needs to explain the logic behind this to me: Someone in Canada buys an API product that's made in American and ships it into Canada. They pay extra taxes and import fees because it's an American product. Then, someone like me wants to buy that product used from someone in Canada and bring it back to American where it originated. Now I have to pay the US Government AGAIN to bring in a product that was made here.
The logic is easy - you don't pay duty on items originally manu'd in the USA.

Cheers.
Old 24th January 2019
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glymur View Post
Welp, they went ahead and did it anyways: API: THE BOX Console
  • Eight (8) input channels with Mic Preamp, Line Input and Hi Pass Filter
  • Eight (8) 500 Series slots (1 per input channel)
  • Direct Out on Input Channels
  • On-Board Stereo Bus Compressor w/ ability to assign to program bus or input channels 1-4
  • Instrument Direct Inputs on channels 1-4
  • Sixteen (16) summing channels (24 channels during mix)
  • 0dB bypass switch for each summing channel
  • 4-Segment LED Metering on each summing channel
  • Stereo program bus with master fader, insert, and external input
  • One (1) stereo and (2) mono auxiliary sends/buses
  • Stereo cue send/bus & headphone system
  • PFL, AFL, and Solo-In-Place solo modes with stereo solo bus
  • Full-featured monitor section that supports two stereo monitor systems
  • Talkback system
  • Comprehensive rear panel connections with balanced inputs and outputs
  • Integrated power supply

Really impressive feature set.
Very nice indeed!



Cheu
Old 24th January 2019
  #474
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That is one bad mama jama!
Old 24th January 2019
  #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
It's already been pointed out, but... Unfortunately, something as awesome as that would offset 1608 sales too much. I doubt having 4 slots with nothing but 500 slots would cost that much more to make, even an 8 channel sidecar for the Box would probably sell well!
Yup, time to eat those words...
Old 24th January 2019
  #476
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noah330's Avatar
Yeah but now there's this! I've been sitting on buying The Box for years - and API told me a while ago I could come right to the factory if I wanted!

Game Changer!!!!

API Releases THE BOX Console with an Updated Feature Set

The newest version of the award-winning BOX Console provides even more options and flexibility for modern studio workflow. Offering a total of eight input channels and eight 500 Series slots, the updated BOX Console also features LED metering for each of its 24 summing channels. The new BOX Console provides the same comprehensive rear panel connections, full center section and monitoring as its predecessor, as well as the 0dB bypass switch on each summing channel — a feature so popular it was included in the design of API's new 1608-II and 2448 consoles.

Old 25th January 2019
  #477
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midmost's Avatar
a question to all THE BOX users and people who read its block diagram:
does the BOX feature input transformers and discret op-amp for every single input channel or only has them trannies in the output section?
Old 25th January 2019
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midmost View Post
a question to all THE BOX users and people who read its block diagram:
does the BOX feature input transformers and discret op-amp for every single input channel or only has them trannies in the output section?
The input pre's have transformers and all direct outs, sends, and the program bus outputs use the same transformers API uses everywhere else.

All channels also have 2510's and 2520's.
Old 25th January 2019
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtman26 View Post
The input pre's have transformers and all direct outs, sends, and the program bus outputs use the same transformers API uses everywhere else.

All channels also have 2510's and 2520's.
Just to clarify though, the 16 summing channels don't have transformers. That was up in the air for a while when The Box was first released.
Old 25th January 2019
  #480
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
It's always great hearing how everyone else works and considers "ideal". I've kind of had the opposite experience of 127Riot. After working on a lot of really legitimate, big large format consoles (SSL 6k/9k, Various Neve 80 series, all the API's), I found I didn't really like the huge footprint and they all did WAY more than I would ever need for an ideal personal studio. Especially with the larger SSL's, rolling around in a chair to all the faders got old! It didn't inspire me or make me feel like a big boy, it just got on my nerves. The 1608 felt like the perfect "sized" console to me considering all the features packed into it, but it even felt large at times.

I found that I just didn't EQ or compress a whole lot during tracking. If I felt the need to reach for an EQ for some reason, I moved the mic or picked a different one. Same with compression, there are definitely times I find I need to compress while tracking, but again not enough to warrant it on every channel. The one thing I really liked about SSL consoles was the buss compressor, I absolutely fell in love with it and to this day is one of the few analog things I don't think the plugins have gotten close to. I loved having it over the master buss during tracking just to give everything life, and occasionally loved putting it on independent sources while tracking. That was about the only thing I liked about the SSL's. They just seemed needlessly complicated at times to do simple routing tasks, especially with the beast of the patch bays.

Having the opportunity to work on a lot of consoles like that pushed me to go all in for a bit production wise and pull out all the stops. I went too far at times, but it was a healthy learning curve and forced me to figure out what worked best for me. I found myself wanting to strip back the tracking process as much as possible and make things less complicated so I could focus more on what was actually going on in the room and what the musicians were doing. Instead of adding more mics to a drums set or EQing or compressing something more, maybe they need to tune the set a bit differently or play a different way. In a nutshell, there were lots of things I liked in different consoles, but most of it was just overkill for how I want to work. And on top of that, I found most projects came out a bit boring when using the same preamp and EQ/comp on everything. I found that especially true with the Neve's and SSL's. The projects I did on the API's never bothered me though, so that was a clear sign in my mind of what I liked and wanted to spend money on.

Ideally though, I never wanted more than 8 preamps at the most of the same thing, maybe 2-4 channels of EQ and a great stereo compressor for the master and the handful of times I need some for tracking. After that, the only other thing I liked about consoles was being able to take my eyes off the screen at times and just close my eyes and push some faders. At the very last part of mixing something I really enjoyed stem'ing out to a few faders, hitting an analog master buss just right and throwing just a bit of compression over it all. So for me, The Box was a dream come true and pretty much ticked every box on my list (aside from price, but I get it...). My days of 14 mic's on a drumset are over, but I'll still do MAYBE 8 occasionally. It would have been nice to have a few more preamps in it, but in all honesty it doesn't matter. It works for us "simple" folk, may actually let me avoid integrating a patch bay (At least for now. Ya, we'll see....), and gives me a handful of quality things that are easy to integrate with one another. And, it's a beautiful centerpiece. Not to mention the rabbit hole of how much cheaper it will be to run one for a month!
Everyone has a preferred way of working and what is good for one person may not be right for another.

Typically you don't used EQ and compression as much during tracking. The console is very helpful at the tracking stage for the mic pre's for each channel with gain, metering and faders. Then the Aux for headphone mixes and Reverb in your cans.

To get a SSl or Neve sound on a song, many want to have that character of the console all on the channels. You may find it boring, others would see it has a cohesive sound and that the Character of API, Neve, or SSl on every channel impar it's character on the mix. That's how everyone mixed back in the old days and no one seemed to complain. These days so people have so many different flavors on a song that it lacks the personality of a distinct sound.

Many like they can just go to a channel and grab a fader or EQ to make a change. It's more rewarding than holding a mouse and scrolling.

I agree the SSl 2 bus compressor is amazing to make songs have that punch and open sound. I found their Silver EQs (X Rack) on the AWS and Duality also provide it. The Neve adds a nice roundness and fullness. Api is sort of in the middle. It has the punchy sound but it also has a little more character than SSl. Now that they upgraded the Box to be more of what people wanted, this is the dream console for many small to large project Studios
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