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API The box?
Old 23rd December 2017
  #301
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
Thank you for the awesome response. Great info here! Shortly after I posted here I stumbled on the Great River MM20 and took the plunge. Haven't regretted it and haven't looked back... maybe one day I will revisit the Harrison, but for now I'm quite satisfied with what the MM20 is giving me... I do still long for real faders and EQ on every channel though!
Nice! By any chance, can we get to hear how's Great River MM20 summing sound? Like itb vs summing? There aren't too many examples of Great River and really curious to hear the sound.
Old 23rd December 2017
  #302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
I used to own a Box and now own a 950m. The switch happened by the hand of fate. I’ve already sung some of the Box’s praises in this thread, but I’ll add a little more now that I’ve worked on a Harrison too.

The Box is indeed very clean, and I wouldn’t use the word mojo to describe it. When I first got it I was surprised what a subtle step up from my X-Desk it was in terms of mojo. Any vibe with that console comes from the preamps, EQ and compressor, and of course, you. It all adds up to quite a satisfying recording experience. Nice and chewy, lots of bottom end.


To me, when sitting in front of it, The Box feels like sitting next to a summing box, some 500 series modules, a monitor section and a faderport. The 950m feels like sitting at a console.


I hope that helps a bit!
So to get the API sound, we should buy a couple of 500 series API pre's, EQ and compressor, or the API Channel strip. The Box will not get you the API sound. The Box summing just provides a slightly smoother than a SSL X Desk. Granted The Box has a good monitor section and 2 bus compressor.
Old 23rd December 2017
  #303
Gear Addict
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
So to get the API sound, we should buy a couple of 500 series API pre's, EQ and compressor, or the API Channel strip. The Box will not get you the API sound. The Box summing just provides a slightly smoother than a SSL X Desk. Granted The Box has a good monitor section and 2 bus compressor.
No, to get the API sound you get the Box or any other API console or product. What I said is the Box kinda feels like sitting next to a bunch of outboard rather than sitting at a console in terms of physical experience. Never said the Box doesn't provide the API sound (which happens to be real clean if you're not using the EQs and pres). It sounds good. The guy asked about mojo, I'm not gonna lie to him and tell him running your tracks through the Box drenches the music in mojo. It doesn't, not even close. It's a clean, open sound, a bit nicer and smoother sounding than an X-Desk yes. But certainly not the be all end all analog console sound one might be inclined to think he is buying when acquiring such a console.
Old 23rd December 2017
  #304
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

When is the box 2488 coming?
Old 24th December 2017
  #305
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
No, to get the API sound you get the Box or any other API console or product. What I said is the Box kinda feels like sitting next to a bunch of outboard rather than sitting at a console in terms of physical experience. Never said the Box doesn't provide the API sound (which happens to be real clean if you're not using the EQs and pres). It sounds good. The guy asked about mojo, I'm not gonna lie to him and tell him running your tracks through the Box drenches the music in mojo. It doesn't, not even close. It's a clean, open sound, a bit nicer and smoother sounding than an X-Desk yes. But certainly not the be all end all analog console sound one might be inclined to think he is buying when acquiring such a console.
The box sounds nothing like the classic 70’s era API consoles.
Yeah I worked on a 70’s 3288 for years and I can assure you from experience the stock 1608 doesn’t sound like it.
Whole other ballgame.

Last edited by RoundBadge; 24th December 2017 at 04:56 AM..
Old 24th December 2017
  #306
Gear Addict
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
The box sounds nothing like the classic 70’s era API consoles.
Yeah I worked on a 70’s 3288 for years and I can assure you from experience the 1608 I have here doesn’t sound like it.
Whole other ballgame.

Sadly my only API experience is the recent stuff- owning the Box for a year and a bit and some sessions on a Legacy (which sounded pretty much the same as the Box).

I wonder why manufacturers move away from the recipes that made them famous in the first place. Is it because if they made gear to sound like they did back in the day they would cost so much no one would buy them?

It's a shame since people who haven't had experience with the classic stuff are getting the new stuff hoping they are getting a slice of that classic sound. I know when I bought the Box I was hoping for (expecting?) tone in spades, befitting of API's reputation. It sounds good, but man, I think my Rascal Tonebuss has more of a 'sound'
Old 24th December 2017
  #307
Rupert Neve had a cleaner sound with his 5088 console which sound great. With the silk button there is a pleasant mid harmonic distortion with transformers that add some nice weight. It is still cleaner though from his older consoles. It's the sound of the Portico pre and EQ which I use in my studio on a daily basis. However once he came out with the Shelford pre and EQ, most people are choosing the Shelford components for their 5088's which have more of that smoother classic Neve sound.

I really love both sounds and would want each one in my studio
Old 24th December 2017
  #308
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
Rupert Neve had a cleaner sound with his 5088 console which sound great. With the silk button there is a pleasant mid harmonic distortion with transformers that add some nice weight. It is still cleaner though from his older consoles. It's the sound of the Portico pre and EQ which I use in my studio on a daily basis. However once he came out with the Shelford pre and EQ, most people are choosing the Shelford components for their 5088's which have more of that smoother classic Neve sound.

I really love both sounds and would want each one in my studio
If could now choose between a 1608 and shelford equipped 5088 I’d definitely go with the 5088.
The shelford channel is great.
Old 24th December 2017
  #309
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
Sadly my only API experience is the recent stuff- owning the Box for a year and a bit and some sessions on a Legacy (which sounded pretty much the same as the Box).

I wonder why manufacturers move away from the recipes that made them famous in the first place. Is it because if they made gear to sound like they did back in the day they would cost so much no one would buy them?

It's a shame since people who haven't had experience with the classic stuff are getting the new stuff hoping they are getting a slice of that classic sound. I know when I bought the Box I was hoping for (expecting?) tone in spades, befitting of API's reputation. It sounds good, but man, I think my Rascal Tonebuss has more of a 'sound'
I’d imagine the newer designs are different (the new 2520 op amps don’t sound like old Huntington’s)from the old stuff.comparing components in a 1608 vs old 2488 it looks like stuff was done to make it more “modern” hi fi sounding.
Makes me curious if the Box has output transformers/opamps on all 16 channels?
..and yeah the average guy buying this newer stuff likely never heard a classic 2488.
If your looking for a more classic API mixer vibe the new summing mixer (Sumbuss-ACA)coming out soon from
Capi is amazing.
Old 24th December 2017
  #310
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andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Makes me curious if the Box has output transformers/opamps on all 16 channels?
I've yet to get an answer on this, I'm curious as well. Here's a picture from the API facebook page, it sure looks like a bunch of little transformers crammed together inside on the left side of the console.

Old 24th December 2017
  #311
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
I've yet to get an answer on this, I'm curious as well. Here's a picture from the API facebook page, it sure looks like a bunch of little transformers crammed together inside on the left side of the console.

Looks like it does
Old 24th December 2017
  #312
While my studio was under construction I landed an all tape mix job and had to cobble together at least 24 channels of faders to make it happen. Our console -- a 1608 --was only half in place, giving me 16 faders plus the inputs in the master section, but I needed another bank of faders so I borrowed an API box to round out the console situation.

I liked the Box. Sounded good, more or less the same as the 1608, which is to say that yes, it's on the "cleaner" end of the spectrum when compared to older api stuff. For me, that's not a bad thing. Any who, the Box is a bit less tonally interesting than the 1608, but not so much so that it was a problem mixing this record.

My main complaint is the build quality. It feels flimsy. Having come from working at an old Tweed desk, which was built like a freakin tank, and from working on a nice 8078, the Box was a real let down in that respect. But for the money, it's tough to be too critical.

Now that we've got our full 32 channel 1608 up and running, I can say that unequivocally I'd choose the 1608 all day over the Box, for every reason conceivable (other than total cost, obv, though to be fair I do consider the 1608 a great value). But the Box is cool.

As for the 5088 mentioned above, yeah, that's a GREAT desk. Got really familiar with that one when I was staff engineering at the Boston Rubber Tracks studio. But for me it's an apples and oranges thing vs the 1608. Overall I stil prefer the 1608, but they each have heir strengths and both offer really wonderful working experiences.
Old 24th December 2017
  #313
SSL is too clean for rock, todays API has the punch like SSl but it has a little more smoothness making it a better option for me. It has some limitations however like an EQ that boots only in 2 dB increments. Neve has a silky smoothness that is just sublime
Old 25th December 2017
  #314
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
SSL is too clean for rock
some seminal rock records done on ssl 4k's.
"todays" API to my ears.[I have a 1608 here,used a 3288 for years]is kinda bright,foward and brash sounding.
Old 27th December 2017
  #315
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
some seminal rock records done on ssl 4k's.
"todays" API to my ears.[I have a 1608 here,used a 3288 for years]is kinda bright,foward and brash sounding.
When I think forward, brash and thin, I think SSL not API (new or old)............

I recently cut a record in a studio where I was using all outboard mic pre amps and monitoring through an SSL 4k. I made rough mixes on the SSL at the end of the session with the faders pretty much at unity gain. When I got the session home and pulled it up on my API with pretty much the same balance the difference was not subtle. The low end was WAY bigger and the top end much smoother and more pleasant. It was a much bigger difference than one would expect!!

I have worked on old and new API gear in many different settings.
Both sound great to me in a different way.

The new stuff is a bit more open sounding to my ears, but not harsh or bright at all. I recently tracked a classical music record using all API 212's and it sounds smooth and beautiful to my ears. Not at all bright, forward or brash.

If anything, I think the older API stuff sounds a bit veiled in comparison, which some people will call "warm." It has its own thing which sounds nice and will not get in the way of making a great recording.

A good engineer should have no problem making a great sounding record with all new or old API gear and some good mics........
Old 10th January 2018
  #316
not so much api box love the last few posts so im just going to say i love my box and for the space im in and sound quality its phenomenal!

Listen, everybodys ear has different preferences. But the biggest problem is trying all the flavours in an ice cream parlor. You just go nuts and cant decide which one to get. Try one or two and buy it!!!!!!

the truth is im the same way as all of you i go to sweetwater and all websites and go to different shops and studios to listen to high end gear, so im guilty here. just saying something that we all need to learn and try and overcome. (Not Easy)
Old 10th January 2018
  #317
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmelaub View Post
not so much api box love the last few posts so im just going to say i love my box and for the space im in and sound quality its phenomenal!

Listen, everybodys ear has different preferences. But the biggest problem is trying all the flavours in an ice cream parlor. You just go nuts and cant decide which one to get. Try one or two and buy it!!!!!!

the truth is im the same way as all of you i go to sweetwater and all websites and go to different shops and studios to listen to high end gear, so im guilty here. just saying something that we all need to learn and try and overcome. (Not Easy)

Agreed, I would love having The Box in my studio. I would replace my Dangerous D Box for monitoring which is to the right side of where I sit. It would then move to dead center. That alone is great. I would also fill the 2 empty slots with API 550A's. This would give me 4 API channels strips. As each API 500 module is about 1,000 each, that would be with 4 mic pre's, 4 Eq's and 2 compressors $10,000 without even including rack to install them. Add the monitoring sections, meters, auxiliary, and summing components and the price their asking seems lot more reasonable
Old 13th January 2018
  #318
Gear Maniac
i've been out of the production game for about 7 years now dealing with some serious health issues. lately been thinking about setting up a small room again. this thing, honestly, is what i had been looking for ages ago.

i spent the first part of my career on consoles and tape. have worked on and owned ssl, trident, neotek, neve, yamaha, etc. these days, i honestly don't know how i could justify having a huge large format console ever again.

i've no interest in running a commercial room again. i just would like to setup my own private room again for my music and producing projects now and then when i'm able.

i mostly like to work with live bands, i've got a rack of great preamps and outboard gear, and a radar system. the box would be a perfect centerpiece to a new room.

i can see the box along with 16 channels of conversion, maybe a 2ch a-d-a for the mix print and monitor path, about 12 more preamps, a few outboard eqs and comps, a headphone rig like the aviom or hearback, and some mics and monitors being quite a powerful little setup.

i've always liked mixing on API desks, they always seemed to be a nice middle ground between an ssl and a neve. i always got great mixes on them for a wide variety of projects.

this is literally my first day looking back at gearslutz and checking out all the new gear that has popped up since i've been out of it, and i'm pretty excited to see this thing. has got me excited about recording music again for the first time in a long, long time.
Old 13th January 2018
  #319
I have to decide if I want to include the API sound in my studio (besides my UAD API plug ins ) and buy The Box and two more 550A's or work with a full console and the best one in the same price range is the Audient 4816. This is the most helpful video I found on the 4816. YouTube Need to start saving my money and to try both of them. I don't need all the mic pre's on the Audient but having EQ on every channel and better quality faders, two line inputs on each channel, etc is very nice.
Old 13th January 2018
  #320
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
I have to decide if I want to include the API sound in my studio (besides my UAD API plug ins ) and buy The Box and two more 550A's or work with a full console and the best one in the same price range is the Audient 4816. This is the most helpful video I found on the 4816. YouTube Need to start saving my money and to try both of them. I don't need all the mic pre's on the Audient but having EQ on every channel and better quality faders, two line inputs on each channel, etc is very nice.
The 4816 is a cleaner more transparent.
I played some 96k stems through it over at Vintage King next to a 1608 and Neve Genesys.
There’s a guy in London (Core Studios) who talks about going from the Audient to 32 channel 1608.
I think he might’ve had a thread about it here.
Old 14th January 2018
  #321
Gear Maniac
ok. i've heard mention in this thread and others of a CAPI console ???

i've got a few of jeff's preamps from when he first put those kits out and they are incredible.

very interested in what he is working on.

anyone have any info ?
Old 14th January 2018
  #322
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestifer View Post
ok. i've heard mention in this thread and others of a CAPI console ???

i've got a few of jeff's preamps from when he first put those kits out and they are incredible.

very interested in what he is working on.

anyone have any info ?
If you would FOLLOW his Facebook page, you will see his working on completing some summing mixer designs... check it out!!
Old 14th January 2018
  #323
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
The 4816 is a cleaner more transparent.
I played some 96k stems through it over at Vintage King next to a 1608 and Neve Genesys.
There’s a guy in London (Core Studios) who talks about going from the Audient to 32 channel 1608.
I think he might’ve had a thread about it here.
Can you describe in more detail the differences you heard??

Which one sounded best to you??
Old 14th January 2018
  #324
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
Can you describe in more detail the differences you heard??

Which one sounded best to you??
The Audient was fairly neutral sounding,usable eq..not super exciting more true to the source.nice feature/price wise.
The genesys was a bit thicker not so much like an old 80’s series but definitely had some vibe.the 1073 style eq sounded really good.what I’d call “modern neve”
The 1608 somewhat clean with a more interestin,aggressive colorful midrange.
Not as much headroom overall(2buss sorta compresses/limits) to the Genesys
If I could switch now I’d probably go for a Series 75 or Shelford channel loaded 5088 ..or a console built with the amazing new Imperial channels by Overstayer.(10 channel buckets)
Old 15th January 2018
  #325
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
The Audient was fairly neutral sounding,usable eq..not super exciting more true to the source.nice feature/price wise.
The genesys was a bit thicker not so much like an old 80’s series but definitely had some vibe.the 1073 style eq sounded really good.what I’d call “modern neve”
The 1608 somewhat clean with a more interestin,aggressive colorful midrange.
Not as much headroom overall(2buss sorta compresses/limits) to the Genesys
If I could switch now I’d probably go for a Series 75 or Shelford channel loaded 5088 ..or a console built with the amazing new Imperial channels by Overstayer.(10 channel buckets)
So if you only had $16K, would you go for the 4 channel API the Box or Audient full console mixer? Could always use Neve or API pre's when tracking?
Old 15th January 2018
  #326
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Jason - if you want a solid console with a lot of inputs and automation, API AND NEVE and D&R (transparent) mix bus mix bus combined (switchable).....for LESS than your budget - check this out :

D & R Orion X

Cheers,

bp
Old 15th January 2018
  #327
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Jason - if you want a solid console with a lot of inputs and automation, API AND NEVE and D&R (transparent) mix bus mix bus combined (switchable).....for LESS than your budget - check this out :

D & R Orion X

Cheers,

bp
The mixer is too big for my needs.
Old 15th January 2018
  #328
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
So if you only had $16K, would you go for the 4 channel API the Box or Audient full console mixer? Could always use Neve or API pre's when tracking?
Neither.
After having a 1608 for close to 10 years I’ve kinda been there done that.
For me personally the Audient would be a bore.
For that money I’d probably go for the new Capi Sumbus mixer or wait for the Overstayer Imperial Console.
Old 15th January 2018
  #329
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Neither.
After having a 1608 for close to 10 years I’ve kinda been there done that.
For me personally the Audient would be a bore.
For that money I’d probably go for the new Capi Sumbus mixer or wait for the Overstayer Imperial Console.
My studio is a high end project studio where I mostly record my own projects doing up to 4 tracks at a time with Superior and BFD drums.

When I have the time and meet the right person I record other artist in my home studio. With having a full time job that pays well with 401k, medical and pension I would be foolish to leave that job. Plus the company car helps too

Just hearing myself talk The Box seems to be a great option? With knowing my setup, does your opinion on what you would recommend change?
Old 15th January 2018
  #330
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Neither.
After having a 1608 for close to 10 years I’ve kinda been there done that.
For me personally the Audient would be a bore.
For that money I’d probably go for the new Capi Sumbus mixer or wait for the Overstayer Imperial Console.
Although I really like the Overstayer stuff, I find the imperial panel extremely "busy". Personally, I can't imagine myself using 16 or more of these modules on a console. Too much distraction..
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