The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Me Geithain,ATC,PSI,Barefoot compare?
Old 29th October 2013
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Hjelmevold's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhara View Post
Other point but it's most a thinking... I never understood why manufacturers don't use audiophile quality drivers (Seas, AudioTechnology, Davis, Scanpeak, Accuton , ...) instead of spending time and money here with engineering.
Well, if we stay in the context of the brands in this thread: Geithain, PSI and ATC all manufacture drivers on their own. I think if for instance ATC were to swap out their famous mid driver with another third-party driver from the examples that you mention, they would lose their perhaps most defining feature. So if I may try to answer your question: These manufacturers believe that they have better control on the end product if they can use drivers that they have engineered themselves. But if they were to use someone else's drivers, they would still have to spend time and money on engineering to make these third-party drivers fit into their product, so it's not necessarily so that the end result would be any cheaper.
Old 29th October 2013
  #32
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adhara View Post
Other point but it's most a thinking... I never understood why manufacturers don't use audiophile quality drivers (Seas, AudioTechnology, Davis, Scanpeak, Accuton , ...) instead of spending time and money here with engineering.
Loudspeaker drivers are not computer software -related google-things, which changes during taking a leak. They are electro mechanical devices, well designed ones can stand time very well i.e. have very long product life cycle i.e. be good investment.
If manufacturer has proper machinery and knowledge what they are doing, making drivers by their own makes perfect sense. Do you think Seas/AudioTechnology/Davis/Scanpeak/ Accuton -"audiophile" drivers are made by some kind of aliens/Old Wise Men/other kind of Higher Audio Knowledge? Not rocket science, but magnetic motor and voice coil -making science. Much bigger compromise for manufacturer would be using those suppliers generic stock drivers.


P.S. "Audiophile quality driver" is an insult against loudspeaker driver. In practical terms means objectivily dubious consumers -level quality. Other than this threads brands, Genelec for example makes their highly regarded 3-way models mid-driver by themself.
Old 29th October 2013
  #33
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
Just a quick update to my post above, where I paraphrased a quote by Joachim Kiesler. I think I found the original quote:

Source: 6moons.com - industry features: RoadTour ME Geithain (my emphasis)
Aha, there may be slight power response fine tunings between models? Herr Doktor may have exaggerated (or been misinterpreted by bimb... eeeh... investigating audiophile journalist) "the problem" little bit, though. Seems quite fine tuning to me.

I would use RL 901K on all practical listening distances between gigantic nearfield desktop monitor´s 1 meter to far midfield monitoring/large -scale home theater (in home applications) distances, if I could afford them. Complemented with tactical use of DSP they solve practical playback problems in a way no other free standing loudspeaker can. In my calculations they are practically closest The Theoretical Ultimate free standing Loudspeaker. 5x RL 901K (surround pack) is my first thing to shop immediately after winning Viking Lottery.
By the way. My familiar reference of pragmatic loudspeaker manufacturer, The Genelec, reports 1,5 meter minimum listening distance even for their gigantic 3-ways. An they are not even co-axials...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
You will never bring good sound from them in small - dead CR.
WC -level sized rooms and acoustic conditions are very bad for all loudspeakers.
Geithain RL 901K is too large for a room if stereo pair of them won´t fit in from room´s door. Or optionally they fit in, but the engineer simultaneously won´t. heh

In extremely loudspeaker anti-friendly acoustical environments even those über-Geithains may require help of compensating electronic wizardry i.e. DSP, but much less than their conventional free standing omniradiating competitors. If speakers can be used in room at all, then co-axial cardioid Geithains can.

If room can be totally custom build for audio use, 100 kg of rockwool per wall/floor/ceiling square meter be put, speakers flush mounted to walls and so on, game changes, though. In that kind of enhanced audio friendliness -acoustic environment cardioid loses its tactical radiation benefit.
In normal free standing loudspeaker installations though (<500 kg rockwool in room), cardioid is impossible to beat by regular omniradiator. If only evaluation is made objectively i.e. anti-coloration wise. Subjective personal fairy tales, twisted sound preferences and dah dah dah´ -mileage may of course vary. But when results are inspected objectively (human listener replaced by machine listener i.e. untouchable measurement microphone), cardioid scores 5/5.
Old 29th October 2013
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Arksun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
Well, if we stay in the context of the brands in this thread: Geithain, PSI and ATC all manufacture drivers on their own. I think if for instance ATC were to swap out their famous mid driver with another third-party driver from the examples that you mention, they would lose their perhaps most defining feature. So if I may try to answer your question: These manufacturers believe that they have better control on the end product if they can use drivers that they have engineered themselves. But if they were to use someone else's drivers, they would still have to spend time and money on engineering to make these third-party drivers fit into their product, so it's not necessarily so that the end result would be any cheaper.
I can't speak for Geithain, but as far as I was aware, both PSI and ATC do use third party drivers, alongside their own.

Personally I really don't care if they made the driver themselves or someone else did, what matters is the quality and the integration into the speaker as a whole.
I also apreciate when every unit is rigorously tested, as most if not all high end monitors are. Certainly every single PSI monitor made has its THD, phase and freq response thoroughly tested in their own full size factory anechoic chamber and checked to see it fits close enough to the tolerances of the 'master' speaker before it ships out.
Old 30th October 2013
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
I can't speak for Geithain, but as far as I was aware, both PSI and ATC do use third party drivers, alongside their own.

Personally I really don't care if they made the driver themselves or someone else did, what matters is the quality and the integration into the speaker as a whole.
I also apreciate when every unit is rigorously tested, as most if not all high end monitors are. Certainly every single PSI monitor made has its THD, phase and freq response thoroughly tested in their own full size factory anechoic chamber and checked to see it fits close enough to the tolerances of the 'master' speaker before it ships out.
Regarding ATC, the only 3rd party devices they use are tweeters, which are generally operative above 3500Hz, or in of the 2 ways, slightly lower. And even these are being replaced in selective instances with ATC built tweeters.

Regarding drivers built in house or not, drivers are like anything, you can choose cheap or good but not both. So its important to know why they build their own and what is gained by it.

Focal is another that build their own drivers and does a good job of it.

Brad

Brad
Old 18th November 2013
  #36
Here for the gear
Geithain 903K- very nice!

In response to the thread about which speakers to choose- there is no way to decide until you listen. I am a very happy user of Geithain 903 K which I imported from Germany to the US (not a cheap undertaking).

I found the Geithains at the AES convention in NYC a few years ago while I was on a quest for great speakers (up to $12k for the pair). They just captured my ears! Nothing else came close in my search (Genelec, Adams, JBL, K&H) and I have been very happy with this choice of speakers. An in depth conversation at the AES with the inventor and founder of Geithain speaker systems, Jochen Kieseler, confirmed that these speakers are well worth the price because of the in-depth knowledge, research and commitment to quality.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump