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Here we go again... Brauner Panthera, Gefell UMT70S, Pearlman TM-1
Old 16th October 2013
  #31
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Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I'd much rather have a pair of iFET's or M70s mics than M149's. My e49 and any vintage M49 I've used always was a huge step up from the M149 on every source when we shot them out here.
As I said earlier I could not really comment on M149's. They seem to work fine for the composers' projects and we record almost everything with them.
The only time I used one in a controled environment it was on a voice and it delivered very good results. But maybe it was the specific voice.
I can see why it may not be a favorite, but I don't think it's as bad as people say around here. But for its price, I have a feeling there are better choices.

Anyway, it'not on my list.

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Old 16th October 2013
  #32
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I'm just gonna bring you full circle and tell you that the Brauner Phanthera fits what you're looking for. I can send you some audio if you wanna hear it.
Old 16th October 2013
  #33
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M149s may not satisfy someone looking for tons of character or color, but they are excellent mics when you need something that is versatile/relatively uncolored but still sensitive and "hot" sounding. It's not exactly a small sounding Mic either, bigger tone than most transformerless mics.

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Old 17th October 2013
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Thanks Cary, when the time comes I'll sure look into the Germaniums.

So, now the thread is about the Gefell UMT70S and Bock iFet or...

I guess I'm looking for an alrounder type of mic. Not too much mojo, not too clean.
A mic that gives you a slightly larger than life effect but doing it so elegantly, without getting too much in the way. Kind of smooth and relaxed but open sounding at the same time.

Am I asking too much?

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The two mics that come to mind are an m149 and a Bock/Soundelux 251. Both are open sounding. The 251 has some magic mojo to it but its not a voice of god effect, and its versatile. The cardioid only 251c can be had for around 1600-1800.
Old 17th October 2013
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I'm just gonna bring you full circle and tell you that the Brauner Phanthera fits what you're looking for. I can send you some audio if you wanna hear it.

please do! The only clips I have found are from Thomann but I find all the mic clips there, unlistenable.
There is no Brauner Dustibutor in Greece; I have found a retailer but he does not carry the Phanthera. I'm not sure if auditioning the Phantom and then forming an opinition from discriptions of their differences will be a good idea.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SighBorg View Post
M149s may not satisfy someone looking for tons of character or color, but they are excellent mics when you need something that is versatile/relatively uncolored but still sensitive and "hot" sounding. It's not exactly a small sounding Mic either, bigger tone than most transformerless mics.

Sent from my lg g2 VS980 4G

Seems like a valid discription.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SighBorg View Post
The two mics that come to mind are an m149 and a Bock/Soundelux 251. Both are open sounding. The 251 has some magic mojo to it but its not a voice of god effect, and its versatile. The cardioid only 251c can be had for around 1600-1800.
I know this is hi end but both the 149 and 251 are out of my budget. My "expensive" choice is the Flea 47, I'm looking for a pair idealy below 4000 euro. Maybe 5000 if it's really worth it.

I think I'm not looking for a 251 type of sound (bright-open), I think I'm looking for a smooth-open kind of thing

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Old 17th October 2013
  #36
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Oh boy, this could keep going endlessly. I've been already going circles in my head about a couple of months now.

I really need to demo some mics. The problem is (not a problem business-wise) I'm booked 18 hours a day, seven days a week. I hope I' ll find some time late November.

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Old 17th October 2013
  #37
I couldn't tell if you've moved on from the iFet7 already.....but I have that and also a TM-1. FWIW I only use the iFet on instruments, and all kinds at that. It truly excels on bass instruments and strings although ribbons are slowly taking over that duty in my place. I use it regularly on guitar cabinets, kick, whatever and it almost always satisfies. Even before I had a TM-1 I would always give a shot on vocals (something I don't bother with now) and it never won out, even over much cheaper options such as the SM7, 414, KSM32, K2.

I borrowed a whole bunch of nice mics, TM-1 included, for a vocal session (thank you Peter at A-Designs) and promptly went out and bought the TM-1. In my experience it tromps the competition in and around it's price range. I haven't tried some of the more expensive U47-ish offerings so I can't comment but it really does sound fantastic on pretty much everything I throw at it. I can only think of a few times where another mic has done a better job and it was usually a quirky kind of deal that suited the vibe better.

So in MY experience, in MY surroundings, the TM-1 is a complete no brainer. I fuggin love the mic, not to mention Dave is a good guy to do business with and supports his products. I love the iFet but never considered it a great vocal mic. (funny enough, I always thought it sounded better on vocals in "instrument" mode)
Old 17th October 2013
  #38
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drBill's Avatar
You cannot go wrong with a UM70. They are desert island mics. I prefer the older transformer ones, but the new ones will do in a pinch. Still available used for a good price.
Old 19th October 2013
  #39
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Again, thank you all for being kind enough to reply.
So let's create some scenarios to help me put things into context (if that is the right expression).

-what you already have:
2xSchoeps cmc6-mk5
9xkm184
2xc414
1xU89

-your budget for new mics: 8000 euro

-Scenarios:
1. Jazz with vintage vibe
2. Jazz modern sound
3. World Music and/or cinematic: warm & lush
4. Last album of Dr John type of thing
5. Kings of Leon sound
6. "The National" mood
7. "Feist" charmingness

You could choose diferent set of mics for each scenario

What would you buy?


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Old 19th October 2013
  #40
Mgr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Again, thank you all for being kind enough to reply.
So let's create some scenarios to help me put things into context (if that is the right expression).

-what you already have:
2xSchoeps cmc6-mk5
9xkm184
2xc414
1xU89

-your budget for new mics: 8000 euro

-Scenarios:
1. Jazz with vintage vibe
2. Jazz modern sound
3. World Music and/or cinematic: warm & lush
4. Last album of Dr John type of thing
5. Kings of Leon sound
6. "The National" mood
7. "Feist" charmingness

You could choose diferent set of mics for each scenario

What would you buy?


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I would buy ribbon mics, a pair of Coles , AEA, Royer, etc... Because looking at your list you already have detailed and modern mics.
Old 19th October 2013
  #41
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Oh yes, this reminds me
I also have 2 SE R1 ribbons and if things go well I'll have access to a pair of Royer 121's

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Old 19th October 2013
  #42
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Again, thank you all for being kind enough to reply.
So let's create some scenarios to help me put things into context (if that is the right expression).

-what you already have:
2xSchoeps cmc6-mk5
9xkm184
2xc414
1xU89

-your budget for new mics: 8000 euro

-Scenarios:
1. Jazz with vintage vibe
2. Jazz modern sound
3. World Music and/or cinematic: warm & lush
4. Last album of Dr John type of thing
5. Kings of Leon sound
6. "The National" mood
7. "Feist" charmingness

You could choose diferent set of mics for each scenario

What would you buy?


Sent from my GT-I9300
Of course all this is subjective.. But looks like you don't really need a pair of allrounders, but some specific mics and a nice vocal mic..

My choice will be buying mics that don't loose value with time (or nottoo much) or at least that they're really well sounding or workhorses, so that I'll keep them as my collection gets bigger..

So this is what I'd do.. heh

It seems you don't have dynamics or you just didn't mention them?
IMHO they're key for that kind of dr.john vibe..and also for some jazz stuff.. But also very good in every situation.. Nothing too fancy.. a pair of sm57's, an SM7, a kick mic..(Beta52, AKG D12vr is pretty good, even if it's expensive, D112..etc) and a used Sennheiser 441..
These will cover a LOT of basic ground IMO.. maybe you already have them though..?

For buying these dynamics I'd sell 2 or 3 of your km184.. You have 9 of them.. I thinke that even with 3 pairs left plus the magnificent shoeps you'll be well covered with sdc.. I'd eventually sell another pair if necessary.. (4 x km184 should be enough).

With this money get the dynamics and if fits the budget try to get another U89.. So you'll have another pair of workhorses the U89 pair, like your 414's..

This way you'll still have your 8k euro for specialty mics and a vocal mic that is smooth but open sounding.. heh

Even if you have the se ribbons and access to royer's get a pair of coles 4038.. They sound dramatically different from royer, will be great for drums, el gtr, room, and believe it or not also on some specific vocals.. This will be about 2k.. (you'll need some nice ballsy preamps with these and a controlled room).

Open and smooth sounding mic.. Josephson 715.. what a great mic.. really nice! It is open and detailed (somehow in a different way from brauner, hard to describe) but at the same time it's smooth and intense.. hard to describe.. this also need some good preamps that have gain to spare (Forssell for clean, Hardy M1 for clean with a bit of balls, BAE or Avedis MA5 for that Neveish charachter). This is about 3.5k euro or something like that.. about 4k US $.

You still have 3 or 3.5k euro left... You might simply get a Flea47 or save some more and get a real U67.. (Beesneez Mahalia could be a cheaper alternative to the 67, not a clone).

But in all honesty I'd keep that 3.5k, and start to record some music and see what else do you need..if anything is needed.

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Old 19th October 2013
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Of course all this is subjective.. But looks like you don't really need a pair of allrounders, but some specific mics and a nice vocal mic..

My choice will be buying mics that don't loose value with time (or nottoo much) or at least that they're really well sounding or workhorses, so that I'll keep them as my collection gets bigger..

So this is what I'd do.. heh

It seems you don't have dynamics or you just didn't mention them?
IMHO they're key for that kind of dr.john vibe..and also for some jazz stuff.. But also very good in every situation.. Nothing too fancy.. a pair of sm57's, an SM7, a kick mic..(Beta52, AKG D12vr is pretty good, even if it's expensive, D112..etc) and a used Sennheiser 441..
These will cover a LOT of basic ground IMO.. maybe you already have them though..?

For buying these dynamics I'd sell 2 or 3 of your km184.. You have 9 of them.. I thinke that even with 3 pairs left plus the magnificent shoeps you'll be well covered with sdc.. I'd eventually sell another pair if necessary.. (4 x km184 should be enough).

With this money get the dynamics and if fits the budget try to get another U89.. So you'll have another pair of workhorses the U89 pair, like your 414's..
Yes I have or have access to dynamics. 6x57's, 3x58, 2xGefell, 2xD112, 1x421.
I also have two Neumann KSM 105.
I should be clearer about the 184's, I own four and have access to another five. The four I have, I also need them for live gigs and some querilla recording sessions I setup in musicians' homes so I won't sell them. The thought crossed my mind though.
I also have two tlm103's I'll try to sell those, I rarely use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
This way you'll still have your 8k euro for specialty mics and a vocal mic that is smooth but open sounding.. heh

Even if you have the se ribbons and access to royer's get a pair of coles 4038.. They sound dramatically different from royer, will be great for drums, el gtr, room, and believe it or not also on some specific vocals.. This will be about 2k.. (you'll need some nice ballsy preamps with these and a controlled room).

Open and smooth sounding mic.. Josephson 715.. what a great mic.. really nice! It is open and detailed (somehow in a different way from brauner, hard to describe) but at the same time it's smooth and intense.. hard to describe.. this also need some good preamps that have gain to spare (Forssell for clean, Hardy M1 for clean with a bit of balls, BAE or Avedis MA5 for that Neveish charachter). This is about 3.5k euro or something like that.. about 4k US $.

You still have 3 or 3.5k euro left... You might simply get a Flea47 or save some more and get a real U67.. (Beesneez Mahalia could be a cheaper alternative to the 67, not a clone).

But in all honesty I'd keep that 3.5k, and start to record some music and see what else do you need..if anything is needed.

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Of course the first quession should be do I need more mics? The answer is I do fine as I am. But as a professional engineer and a gearslut I look for more tools to give me that little extra.

Maybe I should check the coles. Ribbons are relatively new tools for me so I'm still getting to know them and how and when to use them. So naturally they're not yet the first thing I think of when considering new mics.

Yes the Flea 47 is almost a certain buy for me. I'm looking for the rest. Another U89 is the logical thing, but my soul lusts for something different. We'll see...
All the posts so far have been helpful, opened new possibilities I haven't thought of. All good suggestions. The missing link is understanding each poster's taste and sound preferences. Hence those little scenarios.

The room is professionally designed, about 40 sq meters 4 meters high. It sounds fantastic!

Preamps; well mics go first, next upgrade round will be a couple h/w compressors and one or two buss eq's then I'll start thinking about preamps.

The studio currently has a Neve 4081, an 8ch Oram, some utilitarian presonus and is planning on getting a nice tube unit (A Designs, UA or Sebatron 4ch).

I'm thinking of getting some 1073 and API style units plus some tube channels my self; Mercury V72 0r 76 and DW Fearn

Philip
Old 19th October 2013
  #44
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Yes I have or have access to dynamics. 6x57's, 3x58, 2xGefell, 2xD112, 1x421.
Philip
Philip - you need more dynamics, and a more varied palate.

2+ Sennheiser 441
1-2 more 421's
1 RE20
2 EV 635A's
Some other misc. EV's for tone
1 Shure SM7
1-4 Shure 545's - smoother 57's
1-2 Beyer 201
Some Audix dynamics. I like the D6 for kick, and the I5's for a less cracking and less phasey sounding snare.

This won't break the bank and will give you a lot of bang for the buck.
Old 19th October 2013
  #45
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Yes I have or have access to dynamics. 6x57's, 3x58, 2xGefell, 2xD112, 1x421.
I also have two Neumann KSM 105.
I should be clearer about the 184's, I own four and have access to another five. The four I have, I also need them for live gigs and some querilla recording sessions I setup in musicians' homes so I won't sell them. The thought crossed my mind though.
I also have two tlm103's I'll try to sell those, I rarely use them.
Alright.. yes, keep your 184 and sell the 103 and Dr.Bill is right, get some more dyn's, his list his great and versatile..and get that U89, since it's logical.. heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Of course the first quession should be do I need more mics? The answer is I do fine as I am. But as a professional engineer and a gearslut I look for more tools to give me that little extra.
ahahahah!! I hear you.. The coles are something very special.. very FAT.. royer is clean by comparison.. the 4038 have a rolled off top end, in a natural way though.. great great mics.. not for everything, but for many applications/genres, they're great... especially if you're looking for vibe..

But a great tube mic and a great vocal solid state mic are a must in a place like yours, and it's definitely worthed since it's a treated space..
I think that the flea47 (and 49) or the Violet Design Flamingo are fantastic tube mics, but a U67 will probably be a better investment. You will be able to record GREAT music with any of these though.

The Josephson 715 is another gem that you'll love.. and will cover a different territory that the tube mics.. no better or worse...IME same level, simply different, and NOT overly bright.

Sell some of these preamps you have (maybe the ones you don't use), get the BAE or Aurora Audio for that neveish tone (BAE is a clone, Aurora is not but shares that family sound) or the MA5 (if you're into the 500 series.. I really love them). They're all good.
V76 is also great (Mercury and TAB are doing these type of pre's)..

Sell what you don't use much or what you like the least.. everything you have is good for recording music, but I feel these might help upping your game.

for comps, the same, I'd stick to tools that helps me to get the best results quicker.. 1176, LA3A, LA2A, Retro STA-Level, Crane Song Trakker, Dave Hill Titan, BAE 10DC.. these are very different from each other, but are "classics" for a good reason..

I hope this helps you..



Cheu
Old 19th October 2013
  #46
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Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Philip - you need more dynamics, and a more varied palate.

2+ Sennheiser 441
1-2 more 421's
1 RE20
2 EV 635A's
Some other misc. EV's for tone
1 Shure SM7
1-4 Shure 545's - smoother 57's
1-2 Beyer 201
Some Audix dynamics. I like the D6 for kick, and the I5's for a less cracking and less phasey sounding snare.

This won't break the bank and will give you a lot of bang for the buck.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Alright.. yes, keep your 184 and sell the 103 and Dr.Bill is right, get some more dyn's, his list his great and versatile..
I tend to not plan about buying dynamics as they're not so expensive. I keep expanding my dyn collection with every chance I get. Granted, when you sym up the costs they are a significant investement but 100 euro now, 300 euro after a couple of months is doable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
ahahahah!! I hear you.. The coles are something very special.. very FAT.. royer is clean by comparison.. the 4038 have a rolled off top end, in a natural way though.. great great mics.. not for everything, but for many applications/genres, they're great... especially if you're looking for vibe..

But a great tube mic and a great vocal solid state mic are a must in a place like yours, and it's definitely worthed since it's a treated space..
I think that the flea47 (and 49) or the Violet Design Flamingo are fantastic tube mics, but a U67 will probably be a better investment. You will be able to record GREAT music with any of these though.

The Josephson 715 is another gem that you'll love.. and will cover a different territory that the tube mics.. no better or worse...IME same level, simply different, and NOT overly bright.

Sell some of these preamps you have (maybe the ones you don't use), get the BAE or Aurora Audio for that neveish tone (BAE is a clone, Aurora is not but shares that family sound) or the MA5 (if you're into the 500 series.. I really love them). They're all good.
V76 is also great (Mercury and TAB are doing these type of pre's)..

Sell what you don't use much or what you like the least.. everything you have is good for recording music, but I feel these might help upping your game.

for comps, the same, I'd stick to tools that helps me to get the best results quicker.. 1176, LA3A, LA2A, Retro STA-Level, Crane Song Trakker, Dave Hill Titan, BAE 10DC.. these are very different from each other, but are "classics" for a good reason..

I hope this helps you..



Cheu
Well, If I could afford a couple of U67's we wouldn't be having this conversation would we? :D

Unfortunately I'm in a country with 10mil population so we're talking about a very small market potential. The bands here have little to no hope of "crossing the borders". The going rate for studio recording here is about 30 euros per hour. Even less than that. Engineer included. Some of you guys charge 500 to 5000 a mix. Here the budget for an album is about 3000 euro if we're lucky.
Add to that that I don't like Greek pop music so I work mainly with underground stuff so you get the picture. I 'm able to support my family so I must be doing something right tthough

65% of my income comes from live sound, I'm upgrading my recording gear out of passion. Off course the fact that bookings for studio sessions are increasing helps a bit.
The flea and one or two more LDC's is already stretching it.

The studio is not mine, but I have a great deal with that place. Owned by some friends, but we kind of work as a team now. I can't sell their preamps though haha

I will try to arrange a trip to Germany when I have some time to audition most of the mics mentioned here.



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Old 20th October 2013
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
I tend to not plan about buying dynamics as they're not so expensive. I keep expanding my dyn collection with every chance I get. Granted, when you sym up the costs they are a significant investement but 100 euro now, 300 euro after a couple of months is doable.
BIG EDIT: I WILL keep expanding my dyn collection with every chance I get.

Was typing just before a live show and I missed that .

I don't know if I'll build that large of a collection. I never felt the need for dynamics in the majority of my projects. Acoustic stuff with CB, oud, lute, ney, kanoon, piano, classical guitars etc is what I work with the most.

Do you find them necessary for those type of projects too?

The Dr John, Feist etc kind of stuff is not so common yet in my world though I'm workink on it. Maybe two or three out of ten now.

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Old 21st October 2013
  #48
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So, a round up

Your suggestions seem to be:
  • Bock iFet: an instrument workhorse works well on just about anything while offering some character, cardioid only though.
  • UM70S: Desert island mic, drier, less character, more neutral and perhaps a bit leaner on the bass
  • TM-1: wonderful vocal mic and good on warming up/rounding sources, offers musical weight on mid range but since I’ll get the Flea47 maybe it’s better to try some other flavor
  • U89: since I already have one, just pair it up. Fairly neutral, will work well to excellent for all sources, usable as a modern vocal mic. Less character though.
  • Phanthera: the Brauner sound tweaked for warmer results, still on the neutral and modern side. Cardioid only though.
  • Mahalia: since U67’s are way out of my budget, a BeezNess Mahalia might do the trick for me. Problem is, it’s the most expensive from all. I’ll have to stretch my budget quite a bit to get a pair.
  • Josephson 715: A wonderful modern vocal mic like this should really be in my mic locker to complement the Flea. But this along with the Flea means bye, bye workhorse pair.

Some alternative thinking from well respected members of this forum
  • I’d better buy some ribbons
  • Why bother with condensers, I haven’t shorted my dynamics collection yet
This is well taken advice; I haven’t worked with ribbons and dynamics so much, especially dynamics. I will post a new thread about dynamic mics. Expanding my dynamics and ribbon collection will be a parallel project.

Still, I feel the need for a pair of condensers. I have to demo the mics to really decide but so far the iFet and UM70S seem to be the strongest candidates.

For a little less than the Bock iFet I could get the Wunder CM7 Fet. Any opinions on these? Are they kind of similar sounding to the iFets?

Another thought is pair the U89 and also get a T-Funk CU29 or UM70S or Phanthera. This way I’ll stay within budget, I’ll have my U89 workhorse pair (albeit on the clean side), an excellent tube vocal mic (Flea47) and one more mic choice. What do you think?
Old 21st October 2013
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
So, a round up

Your suggestions seem to be:
  • Bock iFet: an instrument workhorse works well on just about anything while offering some character, cardioid only though.
  • UM70S: Desert island mic, drier, less character, more neutral and perhaps a bit leaner on the bass
  • TM-1: wonderful vocal mic and good on warming up/rounding sources, offers musical weight on mid range but since I’ll get the Flea47 maybe it’s better to try some other flavor
  • U89: since I already have one, just pair it up. Fairly neutral, will work well to excellent for all sources, usable as a modern vocal mic. Less character though.
  • Phanthera: the Brauner sound tweaked for warmer results, still on the neutral and modern side. Cardioid only though.
  • Mahalia: since U67’s are way out of my budget, a BeezNess Mahalia might do the trick for me. Problem is, it’s the most expensive from all. I’ll have to stretch my budget quite a bit to get a pair.
  • Josephson 715: A wonderful modern vocal mic like this should really be in my mic locker to complement the Flea. But this along with the Flea means bye, bye workhorse pair.

Some alternative thinking from well respected members of this forum
  • I’d better buy some ribbons
  • Why bother with condensers, I haven’t shorted my dynamics collection yet
This is well taken advice; I haven’t worked with ribbons and dynamics so much, especially dynamics. I will post a new thread about dynamic mics. Expanding my dynamics and ribbon collection will be a parallel project.

Still, I feel the need for a pair of condensers. I have to demo the mics to really decide but so far the iFet and UM70S seem to be the strongest candidates.

For a little less than the Bock iFet I could get the Wunder CM7 Fet. Any opinions on these? Are they kind of similar sounding to the iFets?

Another thought is pair the U89 and also get a T-Funk CU29 or UM70S or Phanthera. This way I’ll stay within budget, I’ll have my U89 workhorse pair (albeit on the clean side), an excellent tube vocal mic (Flea47) and one more mic choice. What do you think?
Ok.. so let's see if we could find a solution here... heh

since you want/need a workhose pair to go along with the 414, I'd definitely get that U89..maybe used? (you might be able to find it for around 1600$..)

(If you sell your 103 (it's yours right?), it might help to maintain almost intact your 8k budget heh )

but let's imagine that 1.6k are gone for that u89..you still have 6.4, right?

Josephson 715 puts you back 3.8k, so you're left with 2.6k.. (you'll need a powerful noiseless preamp with this puppy).

With 2400 euro you could get a Flea47 next (same thing as the original 47 just with cardioid only polar pattern) or getting a Beesneez Mahalia..which is about 2800 new.. (but I might sell mine for a great price, eventually).

and you could get the coles and dynamics later..

I hope this helps,



Cheu



damn..I'm good!
Old 21st October 2013
  #50
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Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
(If you sell your 103 (it's yours right?), it might help to maintain almost intact your 8k budget heh )
Yes they are mine, I have two. Maybe I could even make some extra $ to allocate to my mic budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
and you could get the coles and dynamics later..
I will try to get some dynamics in parallel. Been saving for an extra UAD-2, but dynamics are a better option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
damn..I'm good!
You ARE good, seems like a nice plan.
Didn't know the Flea next has the exact same components. I like the omni option of the original but could live without it. A small sacrifice compared to what I can get for my locker.
If I save a bit more maybe I could get the Flea Next, 715 and your Mahalia?
Old 21st October 2013
  #51
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
Yes they are mine, I have two. Maybe I could even make some extra $ to allocate to my mic budget

I will try to get some dynamics in parallel. Been saving for an extra UAD-2, but dynamics are a better option.

You ARE good, seems like a nice plan.
Didn't know the Flea next has the exact same components. I like the omni option of the original but could live without it. A small sacrifice compared to what I can get for my locker.
If I save a bit more maybe I could get the Flea Next, 715 and your Mahalia?


Yes, this sounds like a good plan... to me at least.. heh you'll be very well covered with vocal mics IMO.
Even better if you could get the dynamics on the go..

btw, even if you don't have the omni option on the Flea47 next, you have the omni pattern on the 715..of course it's not the same mic, and not the same vibe at all.. but it might be useful if you need an LDC omni..

Regarding selling the Mahalia.. I'm not in any rush of selling it, because it's really a great mic and I love it... but I might get a good deal on a U67 over here.. so I'm tempted.. even if the Mahalia might cover more territory than an original 67.. So I might keep it anyway.. but please pm me, we might be able to find a solution.. heh (9 polar patterns on the Mahalia).

in the meanwhile in this old thread there are some clips of my Mahalia agaist an original U67..

Beesneez Mahalia Tube Microphone



Cheu
Old 21st October 2013
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post


Yes, this sounds like a good plan... to me at least.. heh you'll be very well covered with vocal mics IMO.
Even better if you could get the dynamics on the go..
My only concern is I'd like some instrument mics too. But guess what I 've found in the studio (still learning that place)!

1x AKG C460 with CK22
1x Groove Tubes GT44 tube pencil
1x SE 3
1x AT4033
1x Oktava MKL 2500 Tube LDC
1x Oktava MKL 5000 Tube LDC
1x OKtava ML 52 double Ribbon

I could get by for a while, then buy some more mics. Money channel first right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Regarding selling the Mahalia.. I'm not in any rush of selling it, because it's really a great mic and I love it... but I might get a good deal on a U67 over here.. so I'm tempted.. even if the Mahalia might cover more territory than an original 67.. So I might keep it anyway.. but please pm me, we might be able to find a solution.. heh (9 polar patterns on the Mahalia).

in the meanwhile in this old thread there are some clips of my Mahalia agaist an original U67..

Beesneez Mahalia Tube Microphone



Cheu
Thanks for the thread tip, I'll take a listen when I'm in the studio.
Old 21st October 2013
  #53
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
[LIST]
[*]UM70S: Desert island mic, drier, less character, more neutral and perhaps a bit leaner on the bass
Desert Island - yes
Drier - ??? I wouldn't say that.
Less character - you've really got me on disconnect there. That mic has loads of character.
Neutral - again, not how I'd describe it.
Leaner on Bass - yes, unless you use it how it's intended - up close and personal - then there is no lack of bass. But in comparison with say a U87 both pulled back 18". the UM70 will indeed seem to have significantly less bass.
Old 21st October 2013
  #54
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
PS - especially if you have tube preamps, and REALLY want that warm, smooth, amost muted U67 sound, I highly suggest you audition one or a pair of the Michael Joly 012/K47H combo's. You could kill two birds with one stone on those if you get the SDC capsules too. (The omni's are wonderful.) The mic is a transformerless FET mic, but it's voicing is nothing short of spectacular IMO, and belies the transformerless topology. Although a FET mic, it's actual "voicing" comes closer to a classic U67 sound than any of the other "clones" out there that I have heard. Even coupled with a solid state pre, that mic has tamed several difficult vocalists who I've not been able to tame for 10+ years. (Not owning a U67 myself, although I use them at Capitol when there.) I think of it as a cross between a U87 and a Coles 4038 ribbon. Very cool mic.
Old 21st October 2013
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Desert Island - yes
Drier - ??? I wouldn't say that.
Less character - you've really got me on disconnect there. That mic has loads of character.
Neutral - again, not how I'd describe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
In my travels using the UMT70S, I propose it is basically an M7 "on a wire", whereas the IFET is a "Sweeter" more harmonically enhanced FET47 style. It's two amplifiers make it highly versatile. The Gefell is a lighter, [no weight] less harmonic sound. Drier and Neutral, very fast and non-hyped.
I was refering to Mixwell's comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Leaner on Bass - yes, unless you use it how it's intended - up close and personal - then there is no lack of bass. But in comparison with say a U87 both pulled back 18". the UM70 will indeed seem to have significantly less bass.
Aha! Now this is a eureka moment for me. Now I understand why I got two completely different impressions from the mic in two different shootouts on voice. On the first I loved the UMT70S. And yes I stand corrected, there was plenty of character. On the second shootout I thought it was thin but the recording sounded like there was some distance between the singer and the mic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
PS - especially if you have tube preamps, and REALLY want that warm, smooth, amost muted U67 sound, I highly suggest you audition one or a pair of the Michael Joly 012/K47H combo's. You could kill two birds with one stone on those if you get the SDC capsules too. (The omni's are wonderful.) The mic is a transformerless FET mic, but it's voicing is nothing short of spectacular IMO, and belies the transformerless topology. Although a FET mic, it's actual "voicing" comes closer to a classic U67 sound than any of the other "clones" out there that I have heard. Even coupled with a solid state pre, that mic has tamed several difficult vocalists who I've not been able to tame for 10+ years. (Not owning a U67 myself, although I use them at Capitol when there.) I think of it as a cross between a U87 and a Coles 4038 ribbon. Very cool mic.
I took a listen to the samples on Michael Joly's site. Very nice work considering the price but I actually prefered the U67 and Gefell clips.

I don't always like close mic-ing instruments but now I somehow have to fit one or two UMT70S' in my budget too They have a vibe I like.

Last edited by Philip Marinelis; 21st October 2013 at 10:36 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 21st October 2013
  #56
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
There is a difference between the UM and the UMT. I am referring to the OLDER (UM-NO T) versions with transformers. They are no longer available "new", hence the reason Mixwell was referring to the T ransformerLESS version which is still available new for purchase. My preference is for the older version, although the new ones are cool as well. You can still find good versions for sale if that's what you seek. I believe the ones on Joly's site are the TRANSFORMER versions. For sibilant or aggressive male vocals, the K47H is working much better than the Gefell for me these days.
Old 21st October 2013
  #57
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marinelis View Post
but I actually prefered the U67 and Gefell clips.
Then you'll have to search awhile, and pony up the big bucks. Classic non-modded U67's in great shape unmodded are rarer than hens teeth. As I mentioned earlier, the Gefell's on Joly's site have the transformers in them. Actually, there is a mistake on his naming of the clips. There is no UM71. It's an M71 (U stands for multi pattern) - cardiod only version of the UM70. Both of which are older and have transformers.
Old 21st October 2013
  #58
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Philip if you go with ribbons....

See if you can get a pair of Shure KSM 353's to audition. These used to be the Crowley & Tripp El Diablo model before Shure bought them out and made the mic a boring gray member of the KSM series for no reason. (They could have at least kept the cool paint job.)

All that being said, I highly prefer these ribbons on all sources to just about any other type. They beat out Royers here regularly and AEA mics for a lot of jobs. A pair is NOT cheap ($5,400USD about, they're $2,695 a pop.), but I actually want a third one now.

They're not for vocalists...but they're amazing. The single best instrument mic I've ever used, plus the Roswellite material they make the ribbons out of is nearly indestructible! It can handle one hundred forty three dB SPL without breaking a sweat! Most ribbons are fragile, or like the new live mic Royer line...sacrifice tone to become more sturdy. Those mics however are the sincere best of both worlds.

I can put a KSM353 on the beater for a kick drum and it'll sound like God touched it...and it's the single best Guitar and Bass cab mic I've ever heard.

If you want to think about a stereo ribbon I think the AEA R88 is the one to beat...for sound and price point. (Mixwell turned me onto that a few weeks back with a solid post so I borrowed one to check it out.) Great as a room mic or for overheads. A pair of them is essentially like owning four mics that are always in good phase relationship when you want to get the whole drum kit as well as the room. Both of those designs are my current favorites for ribbons. They'll be collectively more lush and smooth sounding than most condensers.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #59
Gear Maniac
 
Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
There is a difference between the UM and the UMT. I am referring to the OLDER (UM-NO T) versions with transformers. They are no longer available "new", hence the reason Mixwell was referring to the T ransformerLESS version which is still available new for purchase. My preference is for the older version, although the new ones are cool as well. You can still find good versions for sale if that's what you seek. I believe the ones on Joly's site are the TRANSFORMER versions. For sibilant or aggressive male vocals, the K47H is working much better than the Gefell for me these days.
I messed it up. In my "round up" post I ment to write UMT70S and the shootouts where with the older UMT's. In Jolly's site I liked the Gefell and rushed to assume it wass the newer version. Do you find the difference so big? I mean can the lack of transormers render a mic from vibey to neutral?

I can see why the Jolly will work on aggresive voices. It's a wonderfull mic but I feel the Geffel will see more use

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Then you'll have to search awhile, and pony up the big bucks. Classic non-modded U67's in great shape unmodded are rarer than hens teeth. As I mentioned earlier, the Gefell's on Joly's site have the transformers in them. Actually, there is a mistake on his naming of the clips. There is no UM71. It's an M71 (U stands for multi pattern) - cardiod only version of the UM70. Both of which are older and have transformers.
I could eventually get the cash for a couple of 67's but business-wise I couldn't justify the cost. Maybe someday, if I manage to build a residential studio in the Greek islands that will attrack international clients.

To my ears, on Cheu's clips the Mahalia sounded as close to the 67 as Jolly's mic just in a different way. So this is a second U67 alternative for me.

Ofcourse we are olny talking about clips here. I'll have to try the Jolly, Mahalia and Geffel to reach final conclusion.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #60
Gear Maniac
 
Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Philip if you go with ribbons....

See if you can get a pair of Shure KSM 353's to audition. These used to be the Crowley & Tripp El Diablo model before Shure bought them out and made the mic a boring gray member of the KSM series for no reason. (They could have at least kept the cool paint job.)

All that being said, I highly prefer these ribbons on all sources to just about any other type. They beat out Royers here regularly and AEA mics for a lot of jobs. A pair is NOT cheap ($5,400USD about, they're $2,695 a pop.), but I actually want a third one now.

They're not for vocalists...but they're amazing. The single best instrument mic I've ever used, plus the Roswellite material they make the ribbons out of is nearly indestructible! It can handle one hundred forty three dB SPL without breaking a sweat! Most ribbons are fragile, or like the new live mic Royer line...sacrifice tone to become more sturdy. Those mics however are the sincere best of both worlds.

I can put a KSM353 on the beater for a kick drum and it'll sound like God touched it...and it's the single best Guitar and Bass cab mic I've ever heard.

If you want to think about a stereo ribbon I think the AEA R88 is the one to beat...for sound and price point. (Mixwell turned me onto that a few weeks back with a solid post so I borrowed one to check it out.) Great as a room mic or for overheads. A pair of them is essentially like owning four mics that are always in good phase relationship when you want to get the whole drum kit as well as the room. Both of those designs are my current favorites for ribbons. They'll be collectively more lush and smooth sounding than most condensers.
Hey man,

I hate Gearlsutz (actually love it)

Look at what you all did!

Flea: 47 tube vog
Josephson: fet vocal goodness
U89: workhorse
Mahalia/Jolly: 67 vibe
UM70S: vibe v.01 (possibly UMT too?)
iFet: vibe v.02
Ribbons: lush
Dynamics: essential

And do you know what I see getting in the end? A divorce

Seriously though, you all helped me a great deal figuring some things out.
I have a clearer view now on what to expect from all these mics.
It feels easier to make a plan.

It could take me three to four years to buy all of them but then I could almost certainly claim I have the best microphone collection in Greece. Good selling point!

For now I'll have to make a choice and stick to my budget though
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