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Monitor short list.......
Old 13th October 2013
  #1
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

Monitor short list.......

Well, the time is getting near "buying time" New speakers are definitely on the agenda. But I really have no clue as to what any of the modern monitors sound like, I've heard two, ATC SCM20pro, an K+H 0300's. That's it. And not in my room.
So I haven't come to any conclusions so far, I've listened to a few in shops, but thats pointless and always a waste of time as the salesmen don't seem to know anything and they just want to sell you the most expensive ones, based on a few mins listening in not ideal situations. But I have found a couple of dealers who might be OK, Sound Tools, and KMR. And I've drawn up a short list to try out at the shops, and then hopefully I can get a rough idea what these speakers sound like, and then we can reduce it down to a pair that I actually want to try here, and borrow them for a weekend.

My short list is......................................

Nuemann K+H0310

ATC SCM25A

PMC TWO TWO 8's

Acoustic Energy AE22

Harbeth Monitor 30.1

I have heard briefly and immediately didn't like Eve speakers, or Adam, sounded too hyped to me. Haven't heard anything by KRK, or any of the other seemingly endless list of monitors out there. I'm looking for a monitor with a natural high end, not hyped, and something with a decent well controlled bass, that also goes low enough to hear organ pedal notes, as I listen to and record a lot of that type of music as well as experimental electronic music.

WB.

PS, also must sound god at relatively low volumes...........
Old 13th October 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Well, the time is getting near "buying time" New speakers are definitely on the agenda. But I really have no clue as to what any of the modern monitors sound like, I've heard two, ATC SCM20pro, an K+H 0300's. That's it. And not in my room.
So I haven't come to any conclusions so far, I've listened to a few in shops, but thats pointless and always a waste of time as the salesmen don't seem to know anything and they just want to sell you the most expensive ones, based on a few mins listening in not ideal situations. But I have found a couple of dealers who might be OK, Sound Tools, and KMR. And I've drawn up a short list to try out at the shops, and then hopefully I can get a rough idea what these speakers sound like, and then we can reduce it down to a pair that I actually want to try here, and borrow them for a weekend.

My short list is......................................

Nuemann K+H0310

ATC SCM25A

PMC TWO TWO 8's

Acoustic Energy AE22

Harbeth Monitor 30.1

I have heard briefly and immediately didn't like Eve speakers, or Adam, sounded too hyped to me. Haven't heard anything by KRK, or any of the other seemingly endless list of monitors out there. I'm looking for a monitor with a natural high end, not hyped, and something with a decent well controlled bass, that also goes low enough to hear organ pedal notes, as I listen to and record a lot of that type of music as well as experimental electronic music.

WB.

PS, also must sound god at relatively low volumes...........
Wound not call either of their top end hyped, most unhyped out the lot (Most natural also) But very personal if you like a ribbon or not, love or hate thing.
Old 13th October 2013
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Hi,

from your list i know the Neumanns and the ATCs.
Clear winner was the ATC, these are also the speakers i bought.
You sometimes read that the ATCs don´t go so low but i can´t confirm that at all! There is more than enough information unless you have to hear something below 30 Hz. Actually everything you´re looking for you will find in this speaker, may it be the unhyped high end or working on low volumes.
They are expensive BUT!!: Do the effort and call a lot of stores, there is a lot of flexibility in prices!
I never wanted to go that high but then i got one good offer after the other and decided that i will go this route and buy something that will make me happy for many many years.
Old 13th October 2013
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Put PSI A21m's on that list. And Quested v2108's. I really like those Harbeth Monitor 30.1's, but they just lacked a tiny bit too much bottom for me. But they are gorgeous.
Old 13th October 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khord View Post
Hi,

from your list i know the Neumanns and the ATCs.
Clear winner was the ATC, these are also the speakers i bought.
You sometimes read that the ATCs don´t go so low but i can´t confirm that at all! There is more than enough information unless you have to hear something below 30 Hz. Actually everything you´re looking for you will find in this speaker, may it be the unhyped high end or working on low volumes.
They are expensive BUT!!: Do the effort and call a lot of stores, there is a lot of flexibility in prices!
I never wanted to go that high but then i got one good offer after the other and decided that i will go this route and buy something that will make me happy for many many years.
I have heard the ATC's in one room as well and they had plenty of bottom. Great speakers. I am also starting to think about a full range monitor system to go along with my ProAc's. So, the ATC's have been on my short list as well. I am also very interested in the SM9's and maybe some of the bigger ATC passive's.
Old 13th October 2013
  #6
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Well, the time is getting near "buying time" New speakers are definitely on the agenda. But I really have no clue as to what any of the modern monitors sound like, I've heard two, ATC SCM20pro, an K+H 0300's. That's it. And not in my room.
So I haven't come to any conclusions so far, I've listened to a few in shops, but thats pointless and always a waste of time as the salesmen don't seem to know anything and they just want to sell you the most expensive ones, based on a few mins listening in not ideal situations. But I have found a couple of dealers who might be OK, Sound Tools, and KMR. And I've drawn up a short list to try out at the shops, and then hopefully I can get a rough idea what these speakers sound like, and then we can reduce it down to a pair that I actually want to try here, and borrow them for a weekend.

My short list is......................................

Nuemann K+H0310

ATC SCM25A

PMC TWO TWO 8's

Acoustic Energy AE22

Harbeth Monitor 30.1

...........
I have a pair of the active Harbeth Monitor 30 - when I got my Geithain RL906 (which were smaller and cheaper) my wife immediately commented on how much better the Geithain's were over the Harbeth's - and the Harbeths are excellent monitors.
Old 14th October 2013
  #7
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

A friend is going to bring his KH 0300 here, to try out in my room. He also had a pair of ATCs, I preferred the top end of the ATCs, nice and natural, I thought the KHs sounded a bit rough at the top, with a tad too much bass, the ATCs were tighter, but who knows ? I might like the KHs in here, it's all room dependant. My friend loved the KHs in another control room and bought them on the strength, now he's not so sure, as they definitely sound nothing like they did in the other studio, I have to be very careful.

WB.
Old 14th October 2013
  #8
Gear Nut
 

another option I would highly recommend are Manger speakers

I have Manger Zerobox 109 with a HiFi-Akademie Amp and a pair of ATC 25s... the Mangers win for mixing purposes and translation to the outside over the ATCs big time though the ATCs sound more "impressive" - that`s my experience and what everybody says who compared the monitors in my studio....
Old 14th October 2013
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
A friend is going to bring his KH 0300 here, to try out in my room. He also had a pair of ATCs, I preferred the top end of the ATCs, nice and natural, I thought the KHs sounded a bit rough at the top, with a tad too much bass, the ATCs were tighter, but who knows ? I might like the KHs in here, it's all room dependant. My friend loved the KHs in another control room and bought them on the strength, now he's not so sure, as they definitely sound nothing like they did in the other studio, I have to be very careful.

WB.
Try anything you're considering in your actual room.
Old 14th October 2013
  #10
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weltraumalltag View Post
another option I would highly recommend are Manger speakers

I have Manger Zerobox 109 with a HiFi-Akademie Amp and a pair of ATC 25s... the Mangers win for mixing purposes and translation to the outside over the ATCs big time though the ATCs sound more "impressive" - that`s my experience and what everybody says who compared the monitors in my studio....
Manger are exceptional monitors - but I thought that the starting price was around the €10,000 mark.
Old 14th October 2013
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

I have a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30 for sale. Almost new. For halve the price of a new set of 30.1's....

They are in Classifieds
Old 14th October 2013
  #12
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nielsb View Post
I have a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30 for sale. Almost new. For halve the price of a new set of 30.1's....

They are in Classifieds
Cool, but I have to wait until I've tried a few things here, thanks for the offer though.....also, I won't have my budget until late Nove early Dec.....

WB.
Old 14th October 2013
  #13
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Please dont bother listening to the 0300's unless you are considering buying used..the 0310 is seriously upgraded.
We sell the KH310 as well as the SCM25's and SM9's. Your choice should be guided by budget and musical style...and try them in your room.
Old 15th October 2013
  #14
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MickeyMassacre's Avatar
Loving the K&H 0300 in my space. Superb, and never need to "reference" outside of themselves. They translate so well in a good environment!
Old 15th October 2013
  #15
If you can manage to find a pair, try auditioning the Trident HG3's, they seem to fit in with what you're looking for. Nicely controlled bass, well defined mids and smooth top end, plenty of volume if needed and the imaging is second to none. They are fantastic to work with.

Cheers,

Tim
Old 15th October 2013
  #16
Gear Addict
 
nomoneymoproblem's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colour Field View Post
If you can manage to find a pair, try auditioning the Trident HG3's, they seem to fit in with what you're looking for. Nicely controlled bass, well defined mids and smooth top end, plenty of volume if needed and the imaging is second to none. They are fantastic to work with.

Cheers,

Tim
+1

I was in the same position as the OP and after listening to a lot of options went with the HG3s. Amazing bang for the buck.
Old 16th October 2013
  #17
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
Please dont bother listening to the 0300's unless you are considering buying used..the 0310 is seriously upgraded.
We sell the KH310 as well as the SCM25's and SM9's. Your choice should be guided by budget and musical style...and try them in your room.
Is the difference that big between the 300/310 ?

My top limit is £10,000, I've revised my original budget, but I doubt if I will get anywhere near this, from what I've heard, you start to get into the law of diminishing returns after about 5K. All that considered, I am in my late 50's, and my hearing isn't what it used to be, so spending obscene amounts of money on monitors actually probably isn't worth it. I just want something that is honest, and gives me mixes that translate well to the outside world, and for all the reasons I stated earlier. Also, they have to be "industry standard" as if I do have to sell up later I can cash them in easily. The reality of all this is that my experience of high end monitors has been practically zero, and this is going to be a very interesting listening experience for me, at the end of the day I have to trust my own ears, and go with something that I actually like and that works in my room. I don't really subscribe to this idea that to be a proper monitor something has to sound unforgiving, I really don't know that that means, if you have to work hard to get a good sound out of a speaker then maybe you are tailoring the sound for that speaker and that speaker alone. This is not a good way to work. I think we all know when a speaker sounds "obviously wrong" there is a common agreement on this, surely???!!! But as long as we are in the right ball park, and the big picture sounds more or less right, then anything beyond that is down to personal preference, and the type of music being dealt with, surely ? I don't want to get too anal about this, but at the same time I want to make sure I spend my money wisely, and don't waste it on something that's not right or unnecessary.

WB.
Old 16th October 2013
  #18
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
My top limit is £10,000, I've revised my original budget, but I doubt if I will get anywhere near this, from what I've heard, you start to get into the law of diminishing returns after about 5K.
At that budget you are almost into the range of the large Geithain RL901K - though, personally, for a normal room (rather than a full studio) I would go for the RL944K (which I plan to get myself later).
Old 16th October 2013
  #19
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
At that budget you are almost into the range of the large Geithain RL901K - though, personally, for a normal room (rather than a full studio) I would go for the RL944K (which I plan to get myself later).

I'm going to have to check these out, so far a completely unknown quantity. I read a review by Hugh over at SOS.
I just hope I can tell the difference between all these exotic speakers, if not, I'm sort of wasting my time, may as well get a pair of Behringer Truth's.....

Old 16th October 2013
  #20
Gear Addict
 
nomoneymoproblem's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Is the difference that big between the 300/310 ?

My top limit is £10,000, I've revised my original budget, but I doubt if I will get anywhere near this, from what I've heard, you start to get into the law of diminishing returns after about 5K. All that considered, I am in my late 50's, and my hearing isn't what it used to be, so spending obscene amounts of money on monitors actually probably isn't worth it. I just want something that is honest, and gives me mixes that translate well to the outside world, and for all the reasons I stated earlier. Also, they have to be "industry standard" as if I do have to sell up later I can cash them in easily. The reality of all this is that my experience of high end monitors has been practically zero, and this is going to be a very interesting listening experience for me, at the end of the day I have to trust my own ears, and go with something that I actually like and that works in my room. I don't really subscribe to this idea that to be a proper monitor something has to sound unforgiving, I really don't know that that means, if you have to work hard to get a good sound out of a speaker then maybe you are tailoring the sound for that speaker and that speaker alone. This is not a good way to work. I think we all know when a speaker sounds "obviously wrong" there is a common agreement on this, surely???!!! But as long as we are in the right ball park, and the big picture sounds more or less right, then anything beyond that is down to personal preference, and the type of music being dealt with, surely ? I don't want to get too anal about this, but at the same time I want to make sure I spend my money wisely, and don't waste it on something that's not right or unnecessary.

WB.
Here's some good advice for you.

Buy some KH310s, and see what you think. They're a third of your budget and easy to flip. If you REALLY love them and notice a huge in improvement in your work, then sell them and upgrade from there...

I think if you've got 10K you'd be foolish (sorry) to just jump on something you haven't heard, after not using high end monitors before.. they're all different and you might be able to save a LOT of money if you find something that works as good for you as a much more expensive monitor, but for a fraction of the price.

I - as you may remember - have HG3s. They are RRP 5K, but can be had for a lot less. In my experience, if I'd simply opted for a more expensive monitor, based on price, I wouldn't be as happy as I am now.

Instead, I got something I love, which I think is extremely undervalued at this moment in time, and which saved me a bundle.

Take a baby step, re-evaluate, then spend more if you NEED to.

Old 18th October 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoneymoproblem View Post

Take a baby step, re-evaluate, then spend more if you NEED to.

Good advice, indeed.......

WB.
Old 18th October 2013
  #22
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

Today is a big day for me, I will know if my finances have got the green light, I'm shaking in my boots here, will keep you all posted. This is really surreal, my life could be totally different this afternoon..........

WB.
Old 18th October 2013
  #23
Gear Addict
 
nomoneymoproblem's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Today is a big day for me, I will know if my finances have got the green light, I'm shaking in my boots here, will keep you all posted. This is really surreal, my life could be totally different this afternoon..........

WB.
Best of luck!
Old 18th October 2013
  #24
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Today is a big day for me, I will know if my finances have got the green light, I'm shaking in my boots here, will keep you all posted. This is really surreal, my life could be totally different this afternoon..........

WB.
ATC SCM25 (or scm50 used), Focal SM9 and Neumann KH310 would be definitely on my short list..

That said I strongly suggest to contact a dealer that have the monitors you're interested in, and listen to them at the same time (if it's possible) in your (hopefully treated) control room..

Monitor are very room dependent... with any of these monitors you can have great results, but probably only one of them will suit your room AND your taste/needs perfectly..

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Old 21st October 2013
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Well, the time is getting near "buying time" New speakers are definitely on the agenda. But I really have no clue as to what any of the modern monitors sound like, I've heard two, ATC SCM20pro, an K+H 0300's. That's it. And not in my room.
So I haven't come to any conclusions so far, I've listened to a few in shops, but thats pointless and always a waste of time as the salesmen don't seem to know anything and they just want to sell you the most expensive ones, based on a few mins listening in not ideal situations. But I have found a couple of dealers who might be OK, Sound Tools, and KMR. And I've drawn up a short list to try out at the shops, and then hopefully I can get a rough idea what these speakers sound like, and then we can reduce it down to a pair that I actually want to try here, and borrow them for a weekend...

PS, also must sound god at relatively low volumes...........

KMR are an excellent dealer. You should ask them for a demo of the Focal SM9s. They are especially good at low volumes!
Old 21st October 2013
  #26
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wallyburger's Avatar
 

I've been laying low, my meeting last week wasnt good. Bottom Line is that I'm going to have to wait for my money a bit longer, feeling really terrible right now, I thought it was all going to be cleared up. Well, that's life, trying to be positive and looking forward to when I can actually buy something. This all revolves around property, which as we all know, can be problematic, understatement of the century.

WB.
Old 21st October 2013
  #27
Gear Addict
 
nomoneymoproblem's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
I've been laying low, my meeting last week wasnt good. Bottom Line is that I'm going to have to wait for my money a bit longer, feeling really terrible right now, I thought it was all going to be cleared up. Well, that's life, trying to be positive and looking forward to when I can actually buy something. This all revolves around property, which as we all know, can be problematic, understatement of the century.

WB.
Sorry to hear that man!!

Chin up and best of luck!!! It took me three years to clear enough debt to start building my home studio (to free me from renting space). It's tough, but you'll do it!
Old 23rd October 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Hi, I'm having a meeting tomorrow, should sort this out. The business of real estate here in the UK is a nightmare, there seem to be middle men everywhere, taking a slice of the cake, creating delays etc. I suppose I'm lucky in that I'm not borrowing any money, and I don't have any debt. I feel sorry for people these days who are trying to get off the ground, especially with a huge lump some up front, usually borrowed, to get them going. I remember when I started my first business, it was at a time when the government were bending over backwards to help people, so it ws a bit easier than it is now. I see people starting up all over here, only to last a few months and they are gone. Finding a niche is key, and the audio business is one of the most difficult enterprises to break into. I know one studio owner who still keeps going, just about breaking even, but he has fingers in other pies, to subsidise the studio. I know a couple of freelance location engineers who do well, but that's it. I certainly won't be starting a business, just hope I can resolve things tomorrow hopefully, and later on, enjoy a few new toys.

WB.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #29
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Hi, I'm having a meeting tomorrow, should sort this out. The business of real estate here in the UK is a nightmare, there seem to be middle men everywhere, taking a slice of the cake, creating delays etc. I suppose I'm lucky in that I'm not borrowing any money, and I don't have any debt. I feel sorry for people these days who are trying to get off the ground, especially with a huge lump some up front, usually borrowed, to get them going. I remember when I started my first business, it was at a time when the government were bending over backwards to help people, so it ws a bit easier than it is now. I see people starting up all over here, only to last a few months and they are gone. Finding a niche is key, and the audio business is one of the most difficult enterprises to break into. I know one studio owner who still keeps going, just about breaking even, but he has fingers in other pies, to subsidise the studio. I know a couple of freelance location engineers who do well, but that's it. I certainly won't be starting a business, just hope I can resolve things tomorrow hopefully, and later on, enjoy a few new toys.

WB.
Good luck WB, hope it all goes your way.

John
Old 23rd October 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I have a pair of the active Harbeth Monitor 30 - when I got my Geithain RL906 (which were smaller and cheaper) my wife immediately commented on how much better the Geithain's were over the Harbeth's - and the Harbeths are excellent monitors.
It was the same for me when I got the PSI A17, I found the RL906 were sounding odd and unaccurate in the high. Yet very organic for a hifi listening.
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