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Tube Pres vs. Tube Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 24th September 2006
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Tube Pres vs. Tube Mics

A tube mic, i.e., u47, in a clean pre, sounds like the singer has more emotion/color in his/her voice.

A tube pre, on the other hand, i.e., DW fearn, 2-610...makes the listener more content and comfterble listening to the audio, while the singer his/herself doesnt quite have the subjective punch or emotional power solely in the performance.

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?
Old 24th September 2006
  #2
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
A tube mic, i.e., u47, in a clean pre, sounds like the singer has more emotion/color in his/her voice.

A tube pre, on the other hand, i.e., DW fearn, 2-610...makes the listener more content and comfterble listening to the audio, while the singer his/herself doesnt quite have the subjective punch or emotional power solely in the performance.

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?

How long is a piece of string?

If the singer has "it" all you need is a 57 and a Mackie... if the singer doesn't have "it" then the world's most expensive vocal chain ain't gonna change ****.

As far as the tone and texture of your audio goes that is an individual aesthetic decision that only you can make with any authority... what I do, what anyone else does is totally irrelevant to YOUR reality.

Peace.
Old 25th September 2006
  #3
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Quote:
Does anybody understand this
I've re-read it about 5 times and still don't have a clue.
Old 25th September 2006
  #4
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shaggseb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I've re-read it about 5 times and still don't have a clue.

same here






Old 25th September 2006
  #5
Gear Head
 
Robie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
A tube mic, i.e., u47, in a clean pre, sounds like the singer has more emotion/color in his/her voice.

A tube pre, on the other hand, i.e., DW fearn, 2-610...makes the listener more content and comfterble listening to the audio, while the singer his/herself doesnt quite have the subjective punch or emotional power solely in the performance.

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?
I have pondered much the same after somking some really good hash.
I've also thought.....since we are made in God's image, and we poop, then it would follow that God poops too.....holy **** that's heavy!
Old 25th September 2006
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Well, i said subjective, so i know it is...for lack of a better word...subjective.

Now, i assumed you guys may not be a sensative to music as I, and thus, would not understand.

Thanks for not bullying me...as much this time.

But, it is true. I have been given a gift of understanding. I can understand how things work, why, and why we as humans are attracted to things.

A tube pre is venerable because it almost coats the recording like a blanket with warmth, as does tape saturation.

However, a tube mic in a clean pre, has the warmths almost compacted, tighter, and thus, when you hear the warmth, it comes from withiin the recording, i.e., the performance or singer, as oposed to a sugar coating that is arround it.

I believe that is why people do not merely buy a decent non-tube condenser and a solo/610 and call it a day.

Rather, there is a cult-like following of the u47, C12 and etc.

Why?

A microphone does not produce a signal strong enough to be greatly heard, thus, a preamp needs to be used to make that signal--amplified.

Thus, if a clean pre is used, little if no artifacts or non-microphone related sounds increase, but rather, the micriphone, if tube, is amplified so its charactor, alone, is strengthened.

However, if a tube pre is used, the 'artifacts' or NON recorded info...is added.

Thus, if a tube pre has lots of color, it means that the mic signal is not all that we get, and that the signal of the preamp is...well...coating it like a 'suger coating.'

It coats the signal with its own charactor and color.

In other words, a mic that has color and warmth is color and warmth to foarm an electrical signal fresh from thin air--literally.

But the preamp does not materialize or manifest the signal, rather, it swallows the signal and amplfies it, and so, the artifacts that it adds do not help to create the signal, but rather, it helps to blanket it with its own coating of warmth.

Thus, there is no cult like following of any tube pre, but rather, there is for microphones, and this is because the actual microphone gives the singer more emotion in the performance itself, directly, and thus, the producer/engineer feels like he is doing a better job, i.e., giving his talent more emotion that he/she actually has, nomatter how many talent he/she has to begin with.
Old 25th September 2006
  #7
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
Well, i said subjective, so i know it is...for lack of a better word...subjective.

Now, i assumed you guys may not be a sensative to music as I, and thus, would not understand.

But, it is true. I have been given a gift of understanding. I can understand how things work, why, and why we as humans are attracted to things.

OK. I think I'm done reading this thread.



ROTFLMAO
Old 25th September 2006
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
shaggseb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
Now, i assumed you guys may not be a sensative to music as I, and thus, would not understand.
yeah sure that's why this is our job !

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
I have been given a gift of understanding. I can understand how things work, why, and why we as humans are attracted to things.

A tube pre is venerable because it almost coats the recording like a blanket with warmth, as does tape saturation.
now that's funny
Old 25th September 2006
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
A tube mic, i.e., u47, in a clean pre, sounds like the singer has more emotion/color in his/her voice.

A tube pre, on the other hand, i.e., DW fearn, 2-610...makes the listener more content and comfterble listening to the audio, while the singer his/herself doesnt quite have the subjective punch or emotional power solely in the performance.

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?

The problem is what your saying is not true. It is sudden unreasoning and overwhelming terror that destroys a persons capacity for self help. Im am sure everyone understands what Im talking about...
Old 25th September 2006
  #10
Here for the gear
 

1. A painting that is nice and has warmth in it, doesnt need too much varnishing.

However, if a painting lacks, a nice varnish can make it nicer, but the actual content never gains emotion, just the pleansantness of looking at it.

2. Microphones can be 5k, 10k, 20k for some vintage stuff, and because do not think its abnormal and they fantasize.

Also, converters can be 5k, 10k, 20k--w/full package of new pro tools, and people do not think it is abnromal and they fantasize.


Common link?

With a microphone, the initial analog signal is created.

With a converter, the initial digital signal is created.

its like clay, once you create a good quality analog or digital clay, all of the effects or preamps you use thereafter only shape, gloss or paint over that clay, but the clay itself needs to be created first.
Old 25th September 2006
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
shaggseb's Avatar
 

I'm sure I'm going to regret to post that but you're wrong in your own "theory"

If I follow your theory, it's the voice of the singer who's the clay...

anyway...

I give up
Old 25th September 2006
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Now, i assumed you guys may not be a sensative to music as I, and thus, would not understand.

Considering less than 15% of the population is gay, I'd say you made a very astute assumption.
Old 25th September 2006
  #13
Lives for gear
 
thenoiseflower's Avatar
 

HA!
Old 25th September 2006
  #14
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FULL-DUPLEX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
A tube mic, i.e., u47, in a clean pre, sounds like the singer has more emotion/color in his/her voice.

A tube pre, on the other hand, i.e., DW fearn, 2-610...makes the listener more content and comfterble listening to the audio, while the singer his/herself doesnt quite have the subjective punch or emotional power solely in the performance.

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?
What about the compressor? Tube or solid state? The right combination for the singer is individual... It is not like a standard shirt that fits for everyone...
Old 25th September 2006
  #15
Here for the gear
 

obviously, a clean compressor is clean, but a tube compressor is like tape saturation, and as i explained earlier, tape saturation is like a tube preamp, it coats the sound with artifacts, as oposed to using the tube in the creation of the electrical, or analog, signal.
Old 25th September 2006
  #16
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danasti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post

I have been given a gift of understanding.
I told him that and I'm sorry!

That's the most untruthful thing I've said on GS for at least a week!

Find me and slap me repeatedly until I cry like a baby and I beg you to stop.

Then break my nose and kick me in the groin until you feel like it's time to start with anger management courses!

Seriously bad information gets passed around on the internet and it's all my fault!
Old 25th September 2006
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Mike Douaire's Avatar
 

Not to be a dick, but did you have a question or do you just want to continually explain how a microphone, preamp, converter, and compressor work? I think we all pretty much have that down. I understand to an extent what you mean, if you think that the clearer the singer hears himself/herself might give them more confidence, and in essence might bring out their vocals a little bit better...maybe...umm....MAYBE being the keyword. Although, in true honesty, I don't think most singers can hear the "color" of tubes like engineers can. So throwing them an AKG Perception 200 verses a U87 won't make too much of a difference for their level. So bring back the question and we'll try to answer it and stop defending yourself.
Old 25th September 2006
  #18
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
How long is a piece of string?
I just measured one and it is 12.3cm long.

JR
Old 25th September 2006
  #19
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Plush's Avatar
Probably best to continue communing with your mushrooms and not share it here.
Old 25th September 2006
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Walter's love child is back...
Old 25th September 2006
  #21
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregl View Post
Walter's love child is back...
A Walnut?
Old 25th September 2006
  #22
Here for the gear
 

I posted a few observations for you guys.

Im surprised that you all got so defensive and sensative about it.

I do care a lot about music, but i never knew so many people would get so stirred up and emotional.

But, its so amazing that none of you insulted me based on the merits of what i said, and to be honest, what i said is very simple.

Thus, you all must be scared of what i said.

Why would you all go so scared about what somebody online, that none of you, i.e., a facelessnick, has to say?

I guess it is because none of you 'bullies' own a u47, c12 and etc., and so you want to pretend that these issues are void.
Old 25th September 2006
  #23
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

I'm pretty sure you guys are getting fooled. This post can't be real. Re-read the writing, it's priceless. It's like it's written by Andy Kaufman. I don't believe "Faceless Nick" is real.

- c
Old 25th September 2006
  #24
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post

Does anybody understand this and have a preference?
I may not understand, but I think I know where you are going with this. A lot of it might be attributed to a placebo effect maybe? You think since the signal is going through a tube pre, so the sound will be *tubey*, have that tube-like lushness to it all covered with a delicious sauce of harmonic distortion.

But the thing is, and I think maybe the reasoning for other poster's responses on the subject, is that those assumptions are not always correct.

I have run tube mics through tube pres, ss mics through tube pres and tube mics through ss pres and a few times my tube mic into tube pre chain has been the cleanest and clearest and most transparent tracks compared to the others. I think it simply might be it is what it is, so I guess I don't really have an answer. I will however, counter Fletcher's piece of string question with another. How thick is a sandwhich?
Old 25th September 2006
  #25
Here for the gear
 

This is awsome.


Finally somebody attempting to get me on the "merits"

Well, all you got is that a tube is not a tube and solide state is more like a tube

I think YOUR on mushrooms.

You should rewrite the audio historybooks.

Maybe one tube mic and pre is clean, i.e., MY m149 that im VERY familiar with

However, I was, of course, speaking of the common tubes that are...well, tubey.

And...the commonly known tubey microphones.

Thus, placebo effect?


If your making fun of me for talking about htis as a placebo effect, tell this to all of the thousands of people viewing so many posts about TUBEs being, well, tubey,and all the people who have purchased any tube gear...idiotically assuming it...will...sound...tubey!

Thanks, finally somebody trying to trap me on the merits...and they fail miserably.
Old 25th September 2006
  #26
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
Thanks, finally somebody trying to trap me on the merits...and they fail miserably.
I don't think I was trying to trap you on your merrits, because I could care less. Track some takes with both tube mic/ss pres, tube pre/tube mic and compare. Like I said, I have tracked things using both tube mic and tube pre, and the track sounded cleaner and more transparent, than the take we did using ss pre and ss mic. If you seem to know the answer to your own question, than what was the point of posting?
Old 25th September 2006
  #27
C/G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessNick View Post
tell this to all of the thousands of people viewing so many posts about TUBEs being, well, tubey,and all the people who have purchased any tube gear...idiotically assuming it...will...sound...tubey!
You said it, I didn't. People should never assume anything that is printed on an internet forum. There is a very fine line between tube gear and good tube gear.
Old 25th September 2006
  #28
Here for the gear
 

You posted something without a 3rd grader 'give me your lunch money' insult!!

OMG!!!

People are maturing!!!! YAY!
Old 25th September 2006
  #29
C/G
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Posting with insults is pointelss, as it gets people nowhere. I don't know you, and you don't know me, and reading posts off a computer monitor is hard to tell the tone of someone's voice ect.

All I am trying to do is understand your post and discuss it, because I really do think I know where you are trying to go with this, but I am unsure I can post the answer you are looking for. I use a lot of tube gear, and some does indeed sound *tubey* while some does not. I also have a few ss mics that sound thicker and with more tube like qualities than my high end tube mics. Go figure.
Old 25th September 2006
  #30
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Oh Gifted One
bestow upon us more of your brilliance

hey quick question:
did you get "your gift" in the mail??
I get lots of gifts that way
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