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Toft AUDIO consoles vs the old trident?
Old 10th September 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
Toft AUDIO consoles vs the old trident?

I want an old 24 channel trident console to use tape on. This will be my 3rd recording setup in my house. Or I could buy a new TOFT audio board. So far for this setup I have an 8 track deck. So an 8 track TOFT board could work. Anyone try them out?
Old 10th September 2013
  #2
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Motoxxx's Avatar
 

If you are looking at an ATB, make sure you get a new one. The first two generations had some very big reliability issues from what I have been told.
Old 10th September 2013
  #3
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
The newest generation TOFT's seem to have smoothed out a lot of kinks. But that being said I'd still probably want a London 24 or or something.

What are the London 24's going for these days anyway? Also Didn't Malcom Toft leave Trident again to start a new company up that makes a 500 series slot compatible variation on the old MTA 980 in a smaller footprint? I'd start there if it's not crazy expensive...maybe fill it up with CAPI VP28's and CAPI LC EQ's. =P

http://www.oceanaudio.co.uk/Products/The_Ark/
Old 10th September 2013
  #4
The toft wasnt everything I had hoped for and more. I also am not a fan of the low band on the eq being a fixed shelf. That being said it will work. So will a ramsa.
Old 10th September 2013
  #5
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
I want an old 24 channel trident console to use tape on. This will be my 3rd recording setup in my house. Or I could buy a new TOFT audio board. So far for this setup I have an 8 track deck. So an 8 track TOFT board could work. Anyone try them out?
FWIW - I had a Series 70 that was recapped, new PS and some select op amp upgrades. I loved that board - everything that ran through it sounded better. After 3 moves and much downsizing, I sold it and replaced it with a Toft ATB 24. The Toft is certainly nice enough for my uses and I had Jim W upgrade the master section. No problems so far with reliability or overall sound, but it sounds more modern/neutral if that makes sense. It's not euphonic like the Series 70 was.

I do appreciate the design, the extra sends, the configurable monitor return path, and all the other conveniences. I appreciate the 4' footprint vs. the 7' footprint.

I miss being able to power down and remove a channel for rework or replacement. I miss the integrated patchbay. I miss the huge amount of clean headroom.

I don't miss the Tuchel connectors. I don't miss the small but constant maintenance issues.
Old 10th September 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
Check out Tonelux, WunderAudio, Aurora Sidecar, maybe somethin' suit you...
Old 10th September 2013
  #7
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Thanks, I actually recorded a couple songs on a Trident series 24 back in high school and liked the sound. Like I said I don't need 32 channels etc. As the most I will be using is 16 when I finally locate a 16 track reel machine. And I got the digital setup downstairs.
Old 10th September 2013
  #8
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I would go with the Trident or any other used high end modular console.
Old 10th September 2013
  #9
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
Thanks, I actually recorded a couple songs on a Trident series 24 back in high school and liked the sound. Like I said I don't need 32 channels etc. As the most I will be using is 16 when I finally locate a 16 track reel machine. And I got the digital setup downstairs.
Maybe an Aurora Sidecar?

For about $21,000 you can get a 10 channel sidecar with some extras for inserts on the 2bus and an 11th channel (spare) if there's ever any technical reason to send one in for repair.

That's like...having an updated Neve with ten tracks. Spend an extra $1,299 on a Tonelux OTB and you've turned the last two channels into sixteen more on a mixdown (Bumping you up to 20 tracks.)

The main disadvantage would be that you wouldn't have AUX sends or inserts for mixing, but you do all that stuff ITB...even analog inserts. Keep it small footprint and you'd have ten fantastic pres with full EQ and direct outs as a basis for tracking. (So chaining into compressors when tracking would be easy.)

The other disadvantage is you'd need to get a good monitor controller (I'd look at Dangerous Music's stuff for the money.)

Where you'd save money is the patch bay...because it's not that complicated, so you wouldn't need a large one to plan it all out. (Don't fool yourself, patch bays will cost you about $5,000 minimum on a big board if you don't plan to solder it yourself.)

I hate to say it, but I think sonically, overall it would crush the London 24...it'd certainly be better than the Toft. That's a class A mini desk...good enough to make pro records on and the EQ's and pres are phenomenal for the money.

For about $7,000 the Great River Mix Master is probably the next best bet. No EQ's...but it's got the AUX sends, talk back mic, and monitor section of a big console...some of the best sounding transformers on a 2Bus for summing...and four pres. (You'd need to spend money on more pres...but still.)

That'd be 16 channels for summing...so an even smaller patch bay...but if you've got external FX units it might be the way to go.

I've heard some things done on them recently which sounded amazing...and Dan Kennedy has the best tech support in the US so...it's better deal than most new console designs. Trick is you'll need 12 more decent pres and you'll have to figure out something in terms of external EQ's. (Two 10 Slot 500 series racks filled with Great River Harrison 32's would be as cheap as I'd go there, not as nice as the EQ's on the Aurora, but you'd get all the same kinds of features, plus they sound really good too, but that's gonna be another $8 grand almost...so spending the extra 6K from there to get to the Aurora doesn't sound so bad.)

I guess at that point you'd have 16 EQ's, four free spots for other stuff in the 500 series...a monitor section and four pres for $15,000...still...I think I'd try for the Aurora, the OTB, and a Dangerous Monitor or Source if I could afford it since the EQ's are inductor based and you'd be up another six preamps.
Old 10th September 2013
  #10
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I just checked the Aurora sidecar and it's interesting but the console idea is not to go digital anyways. The desk needs to mix down after. It's all going to tape. At 21k I would purchase a used Trident 24 for a quarter of the price and then spend some more money and get it completely looked over. I would even go for a used Trident with just 16 channels if any are for sale.
Old 10th September 2013
  #11
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subspace's Avatar
I run a 16x8x8 Trimix, two of them actually. I've been doing some live to 2-track stuff recently on one, the other is set-up with a 24-track and a Pro Tools rig, as well as an Audient dual layer console side-car for DAW control/analog automation. These Tridents were delivered from England to Australia circa 1981 and then air freighted to me in the U.S. circa 2001. I've run them for the dozen years since and they've been reliable with spot maintenance work here and there. Select recapping, Acopian PSUs, Burr-Brown this and that, they're dead simple to tinker with.
Not much time on the 65/75/16/24 Series, nor on the Toft/MTA/Oram re-imaginations.
Old 11th September 2013
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
I run a 16x8x8 Trimix, two of them actually. I've been doing some live to 2-track stuff recently on one, the other is set-up with a 24-track and a Pro Tools rig, as well as an Audient dual layer console side-car for DAW control/analog automation. These Tridents were delivered from England to Australia circa 1981 and then air freighted to me in the U.S. circa 2001. I've run them for the dozen years since and they've been reliable with spot maintenance work here and there. Select recapping, Acopian PSUs, Burr-Brown this and that, they're dead simple to tinker with.
Not much time on the 65/75/16/24 Series, nor on the Toft/MTA/Oram re-imaginations.
Where am I going to find one?
Old 11th September 2013
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
I just checked the Aurora sidecar and it's interesting but the console idea is not to go digital anyways. The desk needs to mix down after. It's all going to tape. At 21k I would purchase a used Trident 24 for a quarter of the price and then spend some more money and get it completely looked over. I would even go for a used Trident with just 16 channels if any are for sale.
The Aurora Audio Ivar Street GTM822 looks amazing. It can be built for whatever you want in groups of 8, and the way it looks laid out it's a real console (just a la carte depending on what you need). I'll make an educated guess and say there is no comparison sonically and that it blows a Trident 24 out of the water.
Old 11th September 2013
  #14
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
Where am I going to find one?
They pop up here and there, google gave me this listing:

Untitled

There was somebody selling input modules a la carte on the Tape Op board last month as well.

HTH
Old 12th September 2013
  #15
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gear is cool's Avatar
The Toft "consoles" are damn near useless.

A older Trident would be a way better choice IMO.

You may want a few more channels to bring stuff back on so a sidecar may or may not be as useful as a proper desk with aux's and bus routing.

No matter how many channels you get someday you'll wish you had more

Happy console hunting!
Old 15th September 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gear is cool View Post
The Toft "consoles" are damn near useless.

A older Trident would be a way better choice IMO.

You may want a few more channels to bring stuff back on so a sidecar may or may not be as useful as a proper desk with aux's and bus routing.

No matter how many channels you get someday you'll wish you had more

Happy console hunting!
Thanks, I am hunting for a 24 series. I just checked ebay and some other local listings and saw that I just missed some 24 series that where priced pretty awesome. I would really like to find one before Christmas. I am currently bored out of my mind with all this down time.
Old 17th September 2013
  #17
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I found a trident 65 24 channel that is currently still being used in a studio for a very good price. Comes with snakes and a cart with the patchbay etc. It's 500 miles away from me. And priced at 3500. Says the power supply was recapped in 06 and so where many of the channels. Good deal or what?
Old 17th September 2013
  #18
Buying a used console many times brings more wear and tear issues with noisy pots, etc. I found the Toft ATB EQ to sound great as a sweetning EQ. I also would recommend the newer Toft mixers as the updates made improved the reliability and sound. Faders are very smooth and the whole mixers look and options for the price is pretty good.
Old 18th September 2013
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
I found a trident 65 24 channel that is currently still being used in a studio for a very good price. Comes with snakes and a cart with the patchbay etc. It's 500 miles away from me. And priced at 3500. Says the power supply was recapped in 06 and so where many of the channels. Good deal or what?


Not a bad price if it comes with everything.... and works. Make sure to test it. Good luck.
Old 18th September 2013
  #20
For the past year I've been using a version 3 atb-08 in conjunction with my 1" 8 track.

It sounds great, but I want more channels and sold it.

I'm now looking for a 24 channel. flipping back from the monitor section to the channel tracks was a pain--while overdubbing--and if I monitored off of the monitor returns I only had 2 aux sends.

If this is a tracking and mix setup I recommend something with more channels
Old 18th September 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
Not a bad price if it comes with everything.... and works. Make sure to test it. Good luck.
Thanks Just spoke to the guy. 3 channels don't work, they either have to be recapped or something. When they bought the desk they recapped and fixed whatever had to be done and did the power supply. It will come with snakes cables and tons of stuff and the side car with patchbays.
Old 18th September 2013
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costas14 View Post
Thanks Just spoke to the guy. 3 channels don't work, they either have to be recapped or something. When they bought the desk they recapped and fixed whatever had to be done and did the power supply. It will come with snakes cables and tons of stuff and the side car with patchbays.
It's a good price. I use a small 16 channel 65. I'm very pleased with it.
Old 18th September 2013
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Luminous View Post
It's a good price. I use a small 16 channel 65. I'm very pleased with it.
I'm going for it. It's only 4 1/2 feet long and the patchbay is on the side etc and he's giving me all the cables and snakes so it'll make things very easy to setup. I just have to find someone in the Boston area to fix my 3 channels or send them out. Maybe mod the first 8 channels too.
Old 18th September 2013
  #24
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If you want an old Trident, get an old Trident 80 or 70 or Trimix. Pretty much everything else like the London, the 24, the 65, etc, etc etc... don't really sound like what people call TRIDENT.

I'd also argue that the build quailty of the 24 and 65 isn't anywhere near what a similar era Soundcraft console is. I'd take a Soundcraft 6000 or TS12 over those other Tridents.
Old 18th September 2013
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogtodd View Post
If you want an old Trident, get an old Trident 80 or 70 or Trimix. Pretty much everything else like the London, the 24, the 65, etc, etc etc... don't really sound like what people call TRIDENT.

I'd also argue that the build quailty of the 24 and 65 isn't anywhere near what a similar era Soundcraft console is. I'd take a Soundcraft 6000 or TS12 over those other Tridents.
I would not agree with that given my own experience. The 65 eq is very close to the 70/80. The preamps are not the same obviously but very interesting nonetheless IMHO. In 10 years owning my 65, I had no problem whatsoever. I'd say the build quality is far above anything recent. I wouldn't touch a Soundcraft with a ten foot pole sonically compared to what I'm using now.
Old 19th September 2013
  #26
Gear Maniac
What is so wrong with the revision 3 Toft ATB, given the improvements over the earlier two revisions on a price to performance basis, elsewhere on these forums the general opinion seems to be that nothing can touch it soundwise for the price, and not everyone wants to have the problems and expense that can come with refurbishing old consoles
Old 22nd September 2013
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Also Didn't Malcom Toft leave Trident again to start a new company up that makes a 500 series slot compatible variation on the old MTA 980 in a smaller footprint? I'd start there if it's not crazy expensive...maybe fill it up with CAPI VP28's and CAPI LC EQ's. =P

The_Ark
Yes, Malcolm Toft left PMI Audio (the owners of the Trident name) last year, and formed Ocean Audio.

If you love the sound of the old Trident consoles, then you'll definitely love the sound of the Ocean Audio products.

All Ocean Audio products are hand-built in the UK, and offer Malcolm's signature sound :-)

Peace
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Old 23rd September 2013
  #28
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rocksure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear is cool View Post
The Toft "consoles" are damn near useless.

A older Trident would be a way better choice IMO.
Is it the overall console, or is there something specifically about them that makes the Toft consoles "damn near useless"? That's a pretty hard hitting statement. I've never used one myself, but I do really like trident 80 series consoles. I have wondered about the smaller Toft consoles and whether one would be worth it.
Old 23rd September 2013
  #29
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What is the sound from a Trident 24? When did it come out?
Old 11th December 2013
  #30
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I think they cost 20 grand
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