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Best 500 series module holding rack in terms of quality?
Old 10th September 2013
  #31
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octatonic's Avatar
The Radial does it for me.
I currently have a Powerstrip but about to buy a workhorse as well.
Old 10th September 2013
  #32
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post

...but sometimes people cut their buddies a break too in this business *(we all haggle) ...if BAE wasn't going to lose out and it was more of a favor, I dunno... it's conflicting but I see your point for sure.
I don't know exactly how it all works, but I'd imagine that manufacturers do grant a certain degree of flexibility in terms of discounts that dealers are allowed to give. Gee, I don't think I've ever paid a full advertised price for anything in my life. There must be an allowable discount margin for all things.

BUT, from what I've heard, there is ultimately a certain bottom line that dealers are not supposed to go under... at least not on a regular basis. Again, this is done to maintain order and fairness in the dealer realm.

Any manufacturer may be "obligated" to scold and "threaten" a dealer if they hear about any obvious breach of the dealership contract. Again, they might not want to do it, but they are obligated to. This is the only thing that makes sense to me anyway. So you can't really blame them.

So the key to protecting the excellent discounts you may be getting from your favorite dealers is to just keep quiet about it. Simple enough. Maybe your discounts are allowed, maybe they aren't, nobody else needs to know... or soon you will lose your ability to get such discounts.

Old 10th September 2013
  #33
+1 on the Purple Sweet Ten. They make GREAT gear in general. I like supporting companies who are small and boutique where you can call or write and talk to the owner. Same with IGS, the Panzer rack is bulletproof.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
Didn't like Purple.
One I got didn't look like precise and sturdy piece of equipment.
Those issues were around 7 years ago in the very early run, they've been resolved for at least 4-5 years (maybe longer, long enough that I had completely forgotten there were some small issues initially in 2006 ish).
Old 10th September 2013
  #34
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
The reason why manufacturers don't want a dealer selling "too low" is because that dealer will then be effectively "undercutting" all the other dealers. And then the other dealers won't sell as many units and will eventually become less enthusiastic about selling that manufacturer's products. The undercut dealers may in fact (and do) complain to the manufacturer for allowing the undercutting to go on and demand that they police it more thoroughly. Ultimately it is not good for the manufacturer to have a bunch of unhappy dealers.
For the record, my dealer didn't regularly sell at that price. It was a price he was offering me because I've bought a lot of stuff from him in the past. Nevertheless, I can understand your points but for me it wasn't so much that BAE was trying to stop my dealer from undercutting others but rather the problem was that I wasn't famous enough to bring them any benefit. To BAE there are two distinct classes: The famous, and the rest of us. Only the famous are allowed a discount under MAP. The rest of us pay MAP, or else. That's what I feel is sleazy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
Those issues were around 7 years ago in the very early run, they've been resolved for at least 4-5 years (maybe longer, long enough that I had completely forgotten there were some small issues initially in 2006 ish).
I'm sure. But once I have a doubt, it's hard to get rid of it. I'm not saying it's only Purple. The Purple issue during the first run with the noise from the power supply gave me doubt for EVERY rack that uses an internal power supply. The Purple incident is what made me gravitate to racks with external power supplies.

Even Tim Farrant says on the Buzz Audio site for his Elixir pre amp under "Rack Compatibility":

"Purple Audio Sweet 10 - recommend up to 6 elixirs in this rack along with other modules. Mount elixirs at the left side of the rack to avoid power supply noise."

Buzz Audio - Elixir 500 series compatible preamplifier

Regards,
Frank
Old 11th September 2013
  #35
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we are very, very happy with Purple Audio Sweet Ten racks. Our standards are, to say the least, high.
Old 11th September 2013
  #36
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Want the best deal? Work in the Pro-Audio sales industry
Old 11th September 2013
  #37
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post

... for me it wasn't so much that BAE was trying to stop my dealer from undercutting others but rather the problem was that I wasn't famous enough to bring them any benefit. To BAE there are two distinct classes: The famous, and the rest of us. Only the famous are allowed a discount under MAP. The rest of us pay MAP, or else. That's what I feel is sleazy. Regards, Frank
Howdy, Frank!

I dig what you're sayin', man. My intention was not to challenge your view. But I did find this to be a good opportunity to post about the whole undercutting thing as I think some folks need to be reminded of it now and then.

As for "famous" folks getting great deals on gear (even getting it for free) and "somewhat lesser known" guys like us (who probably work harder and get paid less) having to pay full price... yeah, it's not fair!

But as I'm sure you know, it's pretty much this way with any gear / instrument manufacturer. I don't know if I'd call it "sleazy" exactly, but it definitely seems like some kind of unjust, backwards methodology.

Needless to say, if a "famous person" is using a given piece of gear, it is valuable promotion for the manufacturer of that gear. So, with this in mind, I'm sure that most gear manufacturers would be happy to offer heavy discounts to "famous people". From the manufacturer's point of view, it's the same as purchasing ad space. It's all business.

Then guys like us come along and happen to note that our favorite producer is using such and such gear and that gets us interested in buying that gear... then we buy it, pay full price and the manufacturer makes a profit... which is the plan.

So it's not really about manufacturers being snobby and not wanting to help the little guy, but about doing business. And a lot of the manufacturers that we know and love are probably not even making that much profit anyway, sadly.

FWIW, most pro audio gear manufacturers are quite strict when it comes to discounts, even for "famous people"... it's not just BAE.

Now does any of this seem fair to the talented, hard working but "not-yet-famous" musician / engineer who is struggling to get ahead? He or she must pay "top dollar" while someone who is very successful / wealthy gets all the discounts and even free gear...?

Gee, think about it, in the realm of music / music industry, is ANYTHING fair... at all... EVER??? I guess I'm just so used to the absurdity and chaos of the music industry in general that things like this don't phase me. If it's upside-down, backwards and makes no sense, its most likely normal.

Anyway, just my take on it.

In the meantime, hats off to dealers that are willing to extend nice discounts to good customers. Maybe they're allowed to, maybe they aren't, safest thing is to just keep such transactions confidential.
Old 11th September 2013
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
BAE is good.
Yeah I got one of these, mine is noisy however. Not saying they are bad, but wish that damn noise would go away.
Old 11th September 2013
  #39
Gear Maniac
Another Radial user here. Love it.
Old 11th September 2013
  #40
SEED78
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Anyone using the Radial with the summing mixer??
Old 13th November 2013
  #41
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blackfinder's Avatar
 

the model everybody here's talking about is radial WORKHORSE POWERHOUSE, right ?

the other 2 models have mixer or ready to upgrade to mixer version.
Old 13th November 2013
  #42
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Does Anyone own the Lindell 510 Power? If so, any good? Build quality etc?
Old 13th November 2013
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabb View Post
Does Anyone own the Lindell 510 Power? If so, any good? Build quality etc?
I'm wondering about this too. The specs and price look perfect for me.
Old 10th December 2013
  #44
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Strange Leaf's Avatar
 

I have the Lindell 506 and it's absolutely amazing at any price, and for the asking price it's a no-brainer. If the 510 is anything like it (it is) then it's a no-brainer too. You can run this ****er over with a monstertruck and it wouldn't notice. BIG power supply, overload circuits, it's got it all.
Old 10th December 2013
  #45
SEED78
Guest
looking at the prices Lindell are KILLING it - I might just wait until the 510 is out..

I'll prob have my box rigged up to a pathway anyway for interfacing with rack gear I have, so I just need decent quality at a budget it seems...
Old 11th December 2013
  #46
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Radial workhorse 11 spacer here, very solid construction. As noted here previously, the radial is superior in construction quality, external PSU and functionality input output wise.
Old 11th December 2013
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
but it's a small company out in LA...and they are a part of celebrity culture in the music field more than they are a consumer product line.
You, literally, have no idea what you are talking about.

But what do I know, Ive just been buying from Mark for years...

And I am, in no way, a celebrity. Nor are the 99+% working engineers using BAE. But I do make a living as an engineer...

Its posts like that, made from you reading online and not working in the field with what you are posting about, that pollute this website daily. Its fun to debate things but at least know what you are talking about...
Old 11th December 2013
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
You, literally, have no idea what you are talking about.

But what do I know, Ive just been buying from Mark for years...

And I am, in no way, a celebrity. Nor are the 99+% working engineers using BAE. But I do make a living as an engineer...

Its posts like that, made from you reading online and not working in the field with what you are posting about, that pollute this website daily. Its fun to debate things but at least know what you are talking about...
I think BAE is a good company, but they have been embraced in a way few companies have on a semi-public level. They are absolutely a "bling" factor kind of company in this regard. ("Good" or "bad" doesn't really factor into it, they have a reputation that's been solidly built and that's why they are looked this way.)

I think Mark is a good guy too. Don't take my remarks out of context. I've owned BAE products for years, but yes they're are priced way out of the average consumer price point because they want to stick with that business model. This is not a negative statement, it's factual. They don't make gear to stock the shelves at Guitar Center. You see their stuff in major studios, pro project studios, and in the photo op with Dave Grohl and Josh Homme...why? Because there is a small percentage of prospective buyers who can really afford the majority of their equipment, and they have a reputation of sticking with vintage building standards which are costly.

I like that they don't cut corners for the most part, but I've done a lot of homework on vintage Neves, as well as the current state of the "Clone Economy". Nothing I'm saying here isn't true. I think people get upset when the things they own are looked at from a calculated view point. As if this somehow puts a diminished value upon what they choose to purchase. It doesn't. What it does do is encourage people to learn about what's under the "hood" of that "car", and other similar models.

BAE has good customer service, and the build quality is top notch, but it's not a product line for everyone looking to get into the vintage Neve sonic color pallet due to price alone. Try not to take my critique like this personally. More people should save up for serious gear of all types, and you can do a lot worse than a company like BAE. They could probably really sell out from here and introduce compromised products trading in on their brands influence, but they haven't. Still...if you want that kind of gear you get what you pay for.

Please don't take my input as a veiled attack. I think the 1066D in particular is a really well priced module at the top level. I wouldn't mind a sidecar filled with nothing but those units.
Old 11th December 2013
  #49
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
They are absolutely a "bling" factor kind of company in this regard. ("Good" or "bad" doesn't really factor into it, they have a reputation that's been solidly built and that's why they are looked this way.)
I disagree, reputation is built on quality of the products, customer service and years and years of working hard and be trusted by your customers...they simply choose to market their products with professionals in the industry for stuff made for professionals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I've owned BAE products for years, but yes they're are priced way out of the average consumer price point because they want to stick with that business model. This is not a negative statement, it's factual. They don't make gear to stock the shelves at Guitar Center. You see their stuff in major studios, pro project studios, and in the photo op with Dave Grohl and Josh Homme...why? Because there is a small percentage of prospective buyers who can really afford the majority of their equipment, and they have a reputation of sticking with vintage building standards which are costly.
You're right, BUT it's not because they want to stick with that business model, it's because making that stuff the way they do it's EXPENSIVE. Hence the "reputation" they have..


Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I like that they don't cut corners for the most part, but I've done a lot of homework on vintage Neves, as well as the current state of the "Clone Economy".
Since you like that they don't cut corners, you have to accept to pay that price.. that's why other companies (that does neve clones or not) are not at this level.. they cut corners.. lately where the "consumer" can't see it.. (pcb, ribbon cables, pots, knobs, pwr supply, etc..).


Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
BAE has good customer service, and the build quality is top notch, but it's not a product line for everyone looking to get into the vintage Neve sonic color pallet due to price alone. Try not to take my critique like this personally. More people should save up for serious gear of all types, and you can do a lot worse than a company like BAE. They could probably really sell out from here and introduce compromised products trading in on their brands influence, but they haven't. Still...if you want that kind of gear you get what you pay for.
I disagree...look at their DMP line or simply the 10DC.. one of the smoothest compressors it'sold at 1500$ (intro price).. look at other companies how much they charge for classic mono compressors.. this is an unbelievably good price.. especially considering how does it sound, the fact that it's unique, and what type of quality you find inside the box..

Of course you should not expect a 499$ compressor that is made this way.. that can't be done without compromising the design, which compromise the sonics. They don't because they care about what they do, and they CHOOSE not to compromise.. at the expense of an higher price tag, less margin and less units sold.

I agree with your bottom line though, if you want that kind of quality, you got what you pay for.

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu
Old 11th December 2013
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
You're right, BUT it's not because they want to stick with that business model, it's because making that stuff the way they do it it's EXPENSIVE. Hence the "reputation" they have.
Touché!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Since you like that they don't cut corners, you have to accept to pay that price.. that's why other companies (that does neve clones or not) are not at this level.. they cut corners.. lately where the "consumer" can't see it.. (pcb, ribbon cables, pots, knobs, pwr supply, etc..).
This is true, BUT...there are a couple great 1073 style clones (AML EZ1073, and N72 by Seventh Circle.) Which don't sound sonically compromised, but do dispense with some of the expensive aesthetics. I would rather own vintage, or BAE/Heritage products, but after shooting out tons of products with vintage Neves, I have to admit, that advising people who are starting out to look at those two companies in particular doesn't feel like a compromise to me.

Also...Great River products fit into this category as a related but different sounding product line, though their best stuff (MP-2NV / EQ-2NV / MAQ-2NV) is starting to get back into a pricier territory. They are ultimately more cost effective units with more by way of controls than any vintage Neve or Clone, and they play well with Neve designs of all types, but they're still a pro product made with incredible attention to detail. Yes they use ribbons, and other modern components, but they're just as valuable to me as vintage Neves for a specific tone which has proven to be separate but equal to my experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
I disagree...look at their DMP line or simply the 10DC.. one of the smoothest compressors it'sold at 1500$ (intro price).. look at other companies how much they charge for classic mono compressors.. this is an unbelievably good price.. especially considering how does it sound, the fact that it's unique, and what type of quality you find inside the box.

Of course you should not expect a 499$ compressor that is made this way...that can't be done without compromising the design, which compromise the sonics. They don't because they care about what they do, and they CHOOSE not to compromise.. at the expense of an higher price tag, less margin and less units sold.

I agree with your bottom line, if you want that kind of quality, you got what you pay for.

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu
Hey Cheu, I agree that they have made inroads to more affordable units which are slimmed down in terms of features. Also I think the 10DC is fairly priced, but you really get the full effect of a compressor like that when you own a pair. (Still a $3,000 investment.) for stereo processing stems, submixes, and 2Bus work.

I have no qualms about what they charge, but when you put their more entry level stuff up against an N72 or an AML...to me there are diminishing returns in that arena Vs those two units. Where they most excel is with the feel / vibe / sound of the full channel strips, and their compatibility with the old consoles. This goes double for new improved designs with more options by way of EQ controls (Which both BAE and Heritage employ.) A 1066D is more appealing to me than vintage units these days, or trying to clone them exactly for example. I also think newer tech like the 10DC is where they need to keep mining for ideas. Great blend of old and new tricks there.

To be fair, I've never really loved the AMS Neve stuff I've tried, or the Vintech stuff. (None of these options were ever bad, but they weren't my first round draft picks when it came to price Vs. performance.) I think with BAE I tend to review their units on a unit by unit basis, because they're always an investment, even at "entry" level, but sonically they have never felt lacking, that's for sure.


Great company...just me throwing in my 2 Cents too.

- Cary.
Old 12th December 2013
  #51
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Overdrive's Avatar
 

Lindell Love

Late to the discussion.
I have the Purple Sweet10, the API lunchbox and the Lindell 506 Power.
Of the the 3, the original API is the lesser product.
I like the Purple but I LOVE the Lindell. It has more than enough power (400mA per slot where the API has 215mA) to drive every module I own, it is quite, cheap, portable.
I travel a lot - the 506 just plugs in about any country.
Old 12th December 2013
  #52
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emrr's Avatar
51X DIY racks are great quality. But you gotta build it, or find an aftermarket builder. I think the Foo Fighters have several.
Old 12th December 2013
  #53
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Also check out the new Mercury G810 Rack.

Mercury Recording Equipment Company: Mercury D Series G810 Rack

Mercury is no stranger to quality. I'd expect this to be right up there.
Old 12th December 2013
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
A while back I wanted to buy another BAE rack so I called my sales guy. He offered me a good price on it. I also had some questions about the rack so he said he'd check with BAE and get back to me.

He calls BAE and somehow in the conversation it comes out what he's selling me the rack for and they lose their ****. They threaten to take the BAE product line from his store if he sells the rack to me for under MAP.

Then they tell him that the only people allowed to have BAE products under MAP are celebrity musicians and engineers. Exactly the kind of people who need discounts, right? Everyone else has to pay MAP or the dealer loses the BAE line.

That's pretty sleazy to me.

I mean, what's the big deal about what my dealer wants to sell to me for? He's the one taking the hit, not BAE.

And then to state that only celebrities can have BAE gear for under MAP?

He forwarded me the email from BAE stating all this so I actually read it firsthand.

Obviously I passed on the rack. And I'll never own another BAE product.

I did send them an email pretty much calling them on their sleazy behavior and giving them a chance to explain themselves. As expected, they never responded.

If any of you out there are getting BAE stuff from your dealers under MAP make sure to keep quiet! Both you and your dealers.

As for me, I moved over to Radial. The only thing I have from BAE is the 6 space rack which I'm going to sell anyway just to get their logo out of my studio. I was going to buy an 11 space rack which is what I passed on from them and eventually went with a Radial powerhouse 10 space instead.

Regards,
Frank
You would find the same for almost every Highend manufacture, sleazy ? That's retail these days! Every dealer knows this when they sign the dealer agreement, if their sales staff is Ill informed I would find a better dealer !
Old 12th December 2013
  #55
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
I would find a better dealer !
Naaaa... I found just eliminating anything from BAE as an option when buying a much better choice.

Thankfully in this day and age there's a glut of gear and manufacturers and there's not one single manufacturer who has a monopoly on anything. Whatever one makes, you can pretty much find something just as good, if not better from another manufacturer.

So in the end I stayed with the dealer, still get great prices, and found that there really is no need to have anything from BAE in my rack.

Thanks,
Frank
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