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GML vs Millennia- for ribbons? Millenia owners represent! Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 21st September 2006
  #1
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whitepapagold's Avatar
 

GML vs Millennia- for ribbons? Millenia owners represent!

We rented a millenia hv3 to compare to my GML 8302. Just got 2 royer 121s to go with the coles and RCAs. We are looking for a great multi- channel pre that will excel with ribbons. I love my 8302 and Royer recommended the Millenia.
The shoot out is scheduled for Sunday and will thus decide the new purchase. Any comments? Any advice on the shootout (what to track, micing techniques, etc.) to see these shine would be super helpful! Pimps, would love to hear opinions but the dealer is already chosen for either result.
We mainly track strings and horns-(of course guitar,bass and drums- but the FOCUS is on horns and strings) Unless these 2 suck, which they won't, its definitely between the 2. WOULD LOVE to hear from millenia owners especially if you have used BOTH!!! Considering the 2 and 4 channel models.
OH and yes I have already read MANY Millenia posts- still would like to hear what yall have to say!

THANKS
Joseph
Old 21st September 2006
  #2
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numrologst's Avatar
john hardy jensen twin servos. ... Enough said...


My favorite mic pre for ribbons
Old 21st September 2006
  #3
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whitepapagold's Avatar
 

The Hardys are too expensive ! We are looking for 4 channels for around 3000 US. Its really between the GML and the Millenia. Thanks though! Its not like I wouldn't LIKE to try the Hardys......thumbsup
Old 21st September 2006
  #4
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

whitepapagold


just curious...

whenever i see Millenias, GMLs and Hardys mentioned i visualize a fourth i consider a member of this group... the " transparent" company of pres... Earthworks 1024... just wondered if you have already had a look at em... they fit your budget too... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1024Pre/


was just curious... when transparency is the name of the game... i think of these four...


cheers

p.s sorry i have only added more to the plate instead of the run down of whats on the plate
Old 21st September 2006
  #5
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henryrobinett's Avatar
It's been a long time since I used any GMLs, and I don't think I used them on ribbons.

I love my Millennias on my ribbons.
Old 21st September 2006
  #6
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numrologst's Avatar
In that case, I'd take the millenia over the gml... but you cant go wrong with either... As long as you have 65-70db worth of clean gain.

Also maybe look at the aea ribbon mic pre... 4 of them(2 stereo units) will cosr you $1500... I have heard they are pretty damn good.
Old 21st September 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
The Hardys are too expensive ! We are looking for 4 channels for around 3000 US.
The Jensen Twin Servo retails for $4250 for four channels, but the M-1 retails for $2905 and does a great job on ribbons too.

http://www.johnhardyco.com/pdf/M1_M2_M1p_20031025.pdf

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
www.johnhardyco.com
Old 21st September 2006
  #8
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

dont mean to Hi-Jack


Hi Mr. Hardy


just wanted to ask a quick question about the Twin and the M1...


i have read a ton... and understand the difference... but i was under the impression the Twin Servo was kinda of "born" for this very application of ribbon mics...especially older ribbons with much lower output than the newer batch cropping up today...

the question is... with said newer higher output ribbons mics... how much closer is the M1 to the Twin Servo? ... in terms of noise figures...because the gain knob isnt as high as it used to be... in this application.

maybe isnt such a genuinely hair-raising question... but im just curious ... from what ive come to understand the second op-amp really helped tackle the low output mics because of the "team-work" ... and the single op-amp designs were pushed alittle bit because of the extra work and like all amps...closer the knob is to full clock-wise the more noticeable the amp became..where as with two amps in tandem...wasnt so noticeable.... lol (like you needed that tutoring from the likes of me heh ).

cheers thumbsup
Old 21st September 2006
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Jay;

You have a good understanding of the concepts of the M-1 and Twin Servo. For example, if you need 60 dB of gain, the M-1 does it by providing 5.6 dB of voltage gain from the JT-16-B input transformer and 54.4 dB of gain from the 990 op-amp. The Jensen Twin Servo does it by providing 5.6 dB of voltage gain from the JT-16-B input transformer and 27.2 dB of gain from each of two 990 op-amps (54.4 dB total from the op-amps). 27.2 dB is a more relaxed gain than 54.4 dB, so you may get somewhat less distortion and wider bandwidth from the two-stage design.

On the other hand, the single-stage design does a very good job at 60 dB of overall gain. I have modified several M-1 and Jensen Twin Servo preamps for even greater maximum gain, with very good results.

I believe that Deane Jensen came up with the two-stage design because the JT-16-B (at the time it was the JE-16-A) was his best mic-input transformer and a perfect match to the noise characteristics of the 990 op-amp, but it had a much lower impedance ratio than the more common input transformers such as the JT-115K-E (at the time the JE-115K-E). The lower the impedance ratio of a mic input transformer, the better it will perform. Just check the specs at the Jensen site (www.jensentransformers.com). The trade-off is that the transformer with the lower ratio will have less voltage gain. The JT-16-B provides 5.6 dB, the JT-115K-E provides 20 dB. So Deane probably thought that to make up for the 14.4 dB deficit between the JE-115K-E and the JE-16-A, he would add a 2nd 990 op-amp rather than push a single 990 for the additional 14.4 dB of gain. A preamp with a JT-115K-E would provide 20 dB of voltage gain from the input transformer and 40 dB of gain from the op-amp that follows the transformer (5534, etc.) in a 60 dB total-gain situation.

Opinions will vary regarding which preamp is best at high gains (or other gains). The single-stage design is a shorter signal path. The two-stage design can provide somewhat better performance at higher gains. YMMV. I'm biased in favor of the M-1, but that's just because it was the first preamp that I designed that was rack-mounted and ready to go. The Twin Servo came about 1.5 years later as a co-development between Deane and others at Jensen and me. Sometimes I look at it this way: On a scale of zero to ten, they are both in the nineties, so it doesn't make much difference if one is a 92 and the other is a 94. It's a tough call. Perhaps others will comment.

John
Old 21st September 2006
  #10
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

I dont care for the millennia stuff. I have 3 units that I am still trying to find a use for(hv-3) but they sound a bit "clinical" to me. They also add a bit of a HF bump that gives a "hifi" impression..

I switched to Pendulum and DAV and havent looked back.

(both sound gorgeous with ribbons)
Old 21st September 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
The GML is great BUT the phanton power switches are on the back and there's no indication as to whether phanton is on or off on the front panel. Not good when it comes to ribbons (unless you've got the R122).

I'm sure the Millennia would be fine but I would second the poster who suggested the Earthworks 1024.
Old 21st September 2006
  #12
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Mr. Hardy

hello again,


wanted to thank you for your reponse... interested parties will definitely find an abundance of info there... i actually didnt realize the JT-115K-E puts out that kind of output...(an amplifier in its own right.. heh ) very interesting stuff thumbsup


Mr. Jensen was a brilliant designer and im just glad there's folks like yourself keeping some of his designs in the forefront and applying/adding to them to help all of us tackle this art of recording.

thank you again...

opinions do vary on gear... but recognition of class doesn't.


cheers

p.s darn good numbers in accordance to that scale and so in the aftermath of a studio build... i just might qualify as a "good" home for an M1/Servo in the future... and i promise to feed them a heathy 6-string diet and allow them the room to roam free. heh


cheers again
Old 21st September 2006
  #13
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech View Post
The GML is great BUT the phanton power switches are on the back and there's no indication as to whether phanton is on or off on the front panel. Not good when it comes to ribbons (unless you've got the R122).

I'm sure the Millennia would be fine but I would second the poster who suggested the Earthworks 1024.
If you look at Millennia then you can also consider the new Grace 801. It has a RIBBON switch on the front plate which bypasses the DC blocking capacitors with relais and increases the gain by 10 dB.
Old 21st September 2006
  #14
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whitepapagold's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
dont mean to Hi-Jack
PLEASE feel free to hijack! I believe these boards are to spawn discussion- not control a topic! Plus if Mr. Hardy wants to chime in GREAT!!!! Ive heard nothing but good things about the Hardy pres.

tuRnitUpsuM- haven't ever gotten a chance to use any earthworks stuff! Ive heard good things about some of their mics- not much about the pres. Yeah, its pretty much set between the 2!

And damn, everyone has to add more fun ideas.... earthworks, Grace(which we already considered), and Hardy. Unless things go terribly wrong- its really between the two. Not enough time to go backwards and reconsider- WAAAAAAAAAAY too busy and we have a week of full strings and horns coming up again- not to mention all the MIXING.... 130 track show tapes.... UGH. I wouldn't be surprised if we went with the Millenias just because I have the GMLs at home if we need them. Regardless 3 days to the tests!

I REALLY appreciate all the input! And though it just confuses me and makes it harder, I still love to hear the other manufacturers yall are using. This won't be the last pre we buy! Thanks again.

Joseph
Old 21st September 2006
  #15
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nickmoon's Avatar
The Millennia's are great on everything. We have an 8 channel HV3D and two Origins. I use the HV3D on my AEA R84 and Royers and they have AMPLE gainand wonderful dynamics. Also great on Drums and Vocals or just about anything else. If only the Origin had a great compressor I would say get two of those.

Nick Moon
www.nickmoon.com
Old 22nd September 2006
  #16
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henryrobinett's Avatar
You don't like the compressor in the Origin? I think it's very good.
Old 22nd September 2006
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

I had an AEA R84 and Grace 101 (with 70db of gain) combo. I thought the Grace was kinda sterilizing the vibe of the AEA R84. I since switched to the AEA TRP and am very happy. It's very inexpensive too. (my daughter wanted me to include this flower in the post, so here it is).
Old 22nd September 2006
  #18
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

whitepapagold


Quote:
PLEASE feel free to hijack! I believe these boards are to spawn discussion- not control a topic!
with ya 100 percent... just find it soothes the soul when stated.


Quote:
tuRnitUpsuM- haven't ever gotten a chance to use any earthworks stuff! Ive heard good things about some of their mics- not much about the pres.

I demoed the 1024... is pretty clean... but i suppose as time passes with any unit... you become more familiar with the "characteristics" of the unit... but from what i took away from it... is it will hold its own in the transparency game.


Quote:
I REALLY appreciate all the input! And though it just confuses me and makes it harder, I still love to hear the other manufacturers yall are using.
AHH! the internal struggle of all US gearslutz... hearing and seeing ....then becoming confused....sweating... and the shaking... learning more and more....then lusting...finally the "voice" ... " Honey, I'm gonna have to confiscate all the credit cards" the reply " but their mine and its my money!" finally the outcome < handing over the CCs> heh

I'm sure either will do the job admirably.

cheers
Old 23rd September 2006
  #19
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AEA TRP is amazing!!
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