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JCF AD8: What PEP does to audio?
Old 4th October 2013
  #61
Gear Head
To "me"......red sounds more like a record....easier to listen to...with smoother and more balanced dynamics throughout the entire frequency range.
Red file has no apparent sharp edges, it's all flowing curvaceously!

Just "my" unbiased 2cents!
The highest quality and most important gear in "my" chain are my ears!
Old 5th October 2013
  #62
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Josh was kind enough to take a session of mine and process the individual tracks through PEP. I lined them up in the original session, dry and at the same levels and did a couple of bounces to 44.1/16. No reverb, no processing on the 2 bus, so the levels are somewhat low.

So hear for yourself and see what you think. I'm tempted to say which is which to avoid a "gotcha" thread, but better to keep it blind at first so you can form your own impressions.

I have a theory as to what he's doing, but I have to think a bit before I articulate it.

-R
What happens if you to the comparison at 24/192?
Old 5th October 2013
  #63
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 

I print to my multitrack and my two trk and it sounds just like tape!
Old 27th October 2016
  #64
Gear Maniac
 
Decompress's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Josh was kind enough to take a session of mine and process the individual tracks through PEP. I lined them up in the original session, dry and at the same levels and did a couple of bounces to 44.1/16. No reverb, no processing on the 2 bus, so the levels are somewhat low.

So hear for yourself and see what you think. I'm tempted to say which is which to avoid a "gotcha" thread, but better to keep it blind at first so you can form your own impressions.

I have a theory as to what he's doing, but I have to think a bit before I articulate it.

-R
Wow, that sounds really nice already, and PEP just makes it better.

Thanks for posting the samples.
Old 13th May 2018
  #65
Gear Addict
 
Zoot's Avatar
I am about to get an AD8 and DA8-T, after many many years of wanting an AD8 and hoping that Josh would make a non-tube transformer based DA.

It has always been my understanding that PEP was/is supposed to be used only on JCF gear because it is passive conversion? Anyway... I don't really think that these samples are an accurate way to show PEP vs Non-PEP, aside from the fact that there is an obvious difference that some people like and others don't. If you read anything about PEP, you will find that Josh suggests that if you want to use it -- you are supposed to build up tracks with it throughout your sessions, from the first to the last.

Furthermore, he specifically says that PEP is not a "magic box" and it only serves to solve a specific problem he has found with digital recording. So, honestly, it doesn't seem like something that should get anyone's panties in a bunch. Personally, I think that there is a specific reason as to why one would spend $1000 per I/O on conversion versus $300 per I/O. Just like there is a reason you would spend the same on preamps or any gear. YMMV with everything.

The thing for me, personally, is actually not about whether or not PEP does anything -- rather, it is now a conversation in my head about whether or not I need my HDX system. If I need to build cue mixes in the analog domain and do not need low latency monitoring -- then why do I need an HDX system? Should I keep my HDX system for the stability, even though I use a Mac Pro 5,1 PT|HD 11 and will have to keep buying 2012 Mac Pros (or PC that can run older windows?) or upgrade to PT12, which I don't want to do. Do I even need to be tied to Avid and pro tools any longer? To me, these are major questions that I need to work out because I will only need AES/EBU into a DAW, which will be Pro Tools 11 until it might not be? Should I just ditch my whole HDX 2xHDIO/Omni system and get some AES/EBU cards for my old Apogee Symphony v1? Sling my HDX card? Should I sell all of my interfaces (2xHDIO/omni & symphony v1) and get a new Symphony mk2 w/ 2 8x8 cards? Should I look into Focusrite RedNet?

So, even though I have digressed the conversation -- I think that a conversation about PEP is more of a conversation of workflow than "do you like A or B." Clearly, Josh would not have designed and implemented PEP if it didn't do something that he thought was bad ass and useful. Nah mean? He also says that some things sound good PEPed and others don't. So I would venture to guess that even the creator of PEP might not necessarily choose Red (PEP) over Blue (non-PEP). He might think Blue sounds better on this specific example, especially given the fact that it was not recorded on an AD8 and it is clearly a well recorded song.

If you have an opinion on any of the above, please share your thoughts. I'm really trying to work out a bunch of things to get the best rock solid, future-proofed system. I have a rock solid system at the moment, but it is everything but future proofed.

Last edited by Zoot; 13th May 2018 at 03:24 PM..
Old 14th May 2018
  #66
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nomatic's Avatar
I have 2 AD-8s and have experimented with PEP...
I feel certain program benefits in mastering but the convertors
sound so good at 44.1 non pep I end up mostly using them this way.
I will some time process tracks offline after the fact but
more often than not I just use them in normal mode.
Old 15th May 2018
  #67
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
What a difference a day (actually a few years) makes!

Funny or Oddly enough, I just listened again...
Now 5 years later!

In 2013 I choose the "Red" files, and today having no memory of this thread,
I just listened again and really dug the "Blue"

Go figure?
Old 15th May 2018
  #68
Gear Nut
 

For me, the benefits of PEP are most felt at tracking. Running non-JCF-tracked things through it can also be dramatic in terms of feel, but tracking is where the process really shines. PEP also makes cymbals much more tolerable.

As the manual suggests, I've contemplated splitting the mic preamp output into a small mixer for headphone monitoring and then setting up a custom nudge value in PT to shift the audio back to cover for the latency.
Old 15th May 2018
  #69
Gear Addict
 

Has anyone here considered recording noise through PEP, then analyzing what has changed?
Old 15th May 2018
  #70
Gear Nut
 

It's certainly more than an EQ/frequency-balance thing. That I can say with some certainty. So I'm not sure how instructive that would be.
Old 13th June 2018
  #71
Gear Nut
 

Just listened for the first time. The blue sounded like a really sweet recording. The red was harsh to my ears. My thought was, if the process has turned red into the blue, "that's amazing".
But no. The blue sounds delightful. And that is the unprocessed track.
Old 14th June 2018
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Has anyone here considered recording noise through PEP, then analyzing what has changed?
It never occurred to me that this would be an enjoyable usage of a tool. I usually only get to run music through them. Seems like a better time to me.
Old 15th June 2018
  #73
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
It never occurred to me that this would be an enjoyable usage of a tool. I usually only get to run music through them. Seems like a better time to me.
Of course I’d be more concerned with the subjective sound, but why not take some objective tests, while we’re at it.

No one here is criticizing AD8s. Objective tests may even encourage more interest.
Old 15th June 2018
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Of course I’d be more concerned with the subjective sound, but why not take some objective tests, while we’re at it.

No one here is criticizing AD8s. Objective tests may even encourage more interest.
I didn’t say anything about it being criticed. Just stating that it never struck me as a fun time.

Peace
Old 15th June 2018
  #75
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I didn’t say anything about it being criticed. Just stating that it never struck me as a fun time.

Peace
Come on, ‘engineer’ has to still mean something even today?
Old 15th June 2018
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Come on, ‘engineer’ has to still mean something even today?
That word means plenty to me. So, let me get this straight.....

Just because I don't think running noise through a custom device with a "mysterious" proprietary processing function [in order to learn something about how it works,...??] ...Is rather boring and unnecessary to understand how it works, or how to use it....

The Word "Engineer" is somehow...watered down??? I really don't get it...

That is a stretch...An engineer uses equipment. He or She doesn't need to run noise through a device to hear or understand how it operates.

Care to explain how running noise through it will help you figure out what Josh is doing?
Old 21st November 2018
  #77
Gear Addict
 
Zoot's Avatar
I have swayed between upgrading to 16 Channels of DA8-T, 16 Channels of AD8... or 8 Channels of both.

In the coming 2 weeks, I will finally be receiving 16 channels of AD8.

Summing out 14 channels of HDIO --> 14 Channels of BAE 1073 (Line Ins) --> Folcrom (15&16 is the FX return from TC4000 EMT250 Snr Verb, via patchbay insert send) --> DW Fearn VT-2 --> AD8.

F-ing. Stoked.

Last edited by Zoot; 25th November 2018 at 02:59 PM..
Old 23rd November 2018
  #78
Lives for gear
 
myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
I have swayed between upgrading to 16 Channels of DA8-T, 16 Channels of AD8... or 8 Channels of both.

In the coming 2 weeks, I will finally be receiving 16 channels of AD8.

Summing out 14 channels of HDIO --> 14 Channels of BAE 1073 (Line Ins) --> Folcrom (15&16 is the FX return from TC4000 EMT250 Snr Verb, via patchbay insert send) --> DW Fearn --> AD8.

F-ing. Stoked.
You have 14 channels of DWF compression? I think you might be the new Imperial Wizard of GS.

Ah, sorry, just saw the summing part of your chain... damn! I was hoping it was true...
Old 25th November 2018
  #79
Gear Addict
 
Zoot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
You have 14 channels of DWF compression? I think you might be the new Imperial Wizard of GS.

Ah, sorry, just saw the summing part of your chain... damn! I was hoping it was true...
Damn. That's be so dope. No. Just a VT-2. I've updated my post.

14 Channels of Fearn Compression. Wow. Brain. Can. Not. Compute.
Old 25th November 2018
  #80
Lives for gear
 
myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Damn. That's be so dope. No. Just a VT-2. I've updated my post.

14 Channels of Fearn Compression. Wow. Brain. Can. Not. Compute.
It's good to introduce these concepts to your brain from time to time, just to keep it on its toes...
Old 25th November 2018
  #81
The Fearn VT2 going into the AD8 sounds so much like a Finished record, it’s absurd.

And you have basically zero penalties for touching it with some processing.

It’s like a whole new world when you Apply something to the track.
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