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High end nearfield test
Old 12th June 2015
  #2941
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
Just caught my eye. Not having a hole in the enclosure does not mean they are "closed box". They are bass reflex. Just that the air in the reflex tubes is replaced by the passive radiator cones.
You could say that but the design interacts and behave more like a closed box. There are no ports that lets air out of the design , which means it is closed. However..The passive radiators move in conjunction with the woofers to unload the pressure inside the box but does not open for air to flow outside the cabinet like a traditional port would do.

It is not a conventional closed box design I agree, but still not a bass reflex port design either. It is a passive radiator design and falls in a category somewhere in the middle I guess.
Old 12th June 2015
  #2942
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Its going to be VERY expensive.

More expensive than ATC 100's/Barefoot MM12's/PMC IB2's etc?

Yes - it will cost money, but my guess is that for what you get it's going to be in another league compared to the competition for the same price range just like their near fields.

Even if these came around to the initial 5k euro estimate, that would make the package with two 18's to be around the $15k USD mark with amps? That's still $10k cheaper than MM12's and the bigger ATC's etc.

I agree though - it's not going to be for everyone at that price point.
Old 12th June 2015
  #2943
Gear Head
 

Though each design certainly involves system tuning; whether it's port resonant frequency, enclosure Q, or otherwise, it's good to differentiate between them. Petrus makes a good point.

That said, I think that nearfield is the only environment where an integration between subs and sats can actually succeed with minimal effort. The wavelengths haven't had time to interact with room modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
You could say that but the design interacts and behave more like a closed box. There are no ports that lets air out of the design , which means it is closed. However..The passive radiators move in conjunction with the woofers to unload the pressure inside the box but does not open for air to flow outside the cabinet like a traditional port would do.

It is not a conventional closed box design I agree, but still not a bass reflex port design either. It is a passive radiator design and falls in a category somewhere in the middle I guess.
Old 12th June 2015
  #2944
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
It is a passive radiator design and falls in a category somewhere in the middle I guess.
Not quite, the box size and tuning calculations are based on bass reflex principles. It is not 100% the same, but close enough, and the loading results in 24 dB/octave falloff just like bass reflex does. It has some advantages compared to tubes, and some disadvantages (like weight and price).

Here is a factual and professional FAQ about passive radiators and their implementation: http://www.aespeakers.com/PRFAQ.php

Anyway, just to keep the facts straight.

Last edited by Petrus; 12th June 2015 at 03:49 PM..
Old 15th June 2015
  #2945
Here for the gear
Has anyone heard the PMC TwoTwo.8 up against the Amphions? I believe the TwoTwo.6's we're tried out in this thread earlier but I still haven't heard anyone talk about the 8's. Thanks.

XOQ
Old 15th June 2015
  #2946
Lives for gear
 

Yes I've heard the TwoTwo8's... The Amphions are simply in another league in my opinion.
Old 16th June 2015
  #2947
Amphion Speaker Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Yes I've heard the TwoTwo8's... The Amphions are simply in another league in my opinion.
Spencer,

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Amphions versus the PMC TwoTwo series, along with the Barefoots.

Is it a sound thing? Do you feel the Amphions are more fun? Or actually sound better? Or do you feel the Amphions are a much better tool in terms of workflow? I recall reading one of your posts mentioning that you're getting mixes finished much quicker with the Amphions (than your previous setups).

What's your thoughts on the Amphions as a 'listening/enjoyment' speaker?

I'm trying to get a 'context' of this speaker. Is it amazing because of mix translation, and the efficient path to getting there?

Do the Amphion Two 18s provide gobs of tracking power?

I guess in short: what's the reason to buy these? For tracking? For mixing? Or for fun? Or all of the above?

Thanks in advance,

Phil
Old 16th June 2015
  #2948
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
Spencer,

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Amphions versus the PMC TwoTwo series, along with the Barefoots.

Is it a sound thing? Do you feel the Amphions are more fun? Or actually sound better? Or do you feel the Amphions are a much better tool in terms of workflow? I recall reading one of your posts mentioning that you're getting mixes finished much quicker with the Amphions (than your previous setups).

What's your thoughts on the Amphions as a 'listening/enjoyment' speaker?

I'm trying to get a 'context' of this speaker. Is it amazing because of mix translation, and the efficient path to getting there?

Do the Amphion Two 18s provide gobs of tracking power?

I guess in short: what's the reason to buy these? For tracking? For mixing? Or for fun? Or all of the above?

Thanks in advance,

Phil
I have heard the TwoTwo series and One18's side by side.
the PMC's had more low end puff and "ompf".
overall the Amphions sounded a little drier,tighter..felt a bit more clinical maybe more accurate to my ears?
I have the Two18's,One18's and Barefoot mm27 gen 2's all up right now.
The Two18's have plenty of volume for tracking.
although for me nothing will replace the Barefoots for control room monitor tracking.sound huge and 3D
when switching back in forth the Amphions you hear more of the box/enclosure.the BF's are more 3d.less "boxey",bigger sweet spot.
that said the Amphions [replaced my ns10's] are great mixing tools..real world translation is good.
Old 16th June 2015
  #2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I have heard the TwoTwo series and One18's side by side.
the PMC's had more low end puff and "ompf".
overall the Amphions sounded a little drier,tighter..felt a bit more clinical maybe more accurate to my ears?
I have the Two18's,One18's and Barefoot mm27 gen 2's all up right now.
The Two18's have plenty of volume for tracking.
although for me nothing will replace the Barefoots for control room monitor tracking.sound huge and 3D
when switching back in forth the Amphions you hear more of the box/enclosure.the BF's are more 3d.less "boxey",bigger sweet spot.
that said the Amphions [replaced my ns10's] are great mixing tools..real world translation is good.
Thanks RoundBadge,

Which speaker are you using most for mixing duties? Or are you constantly flipping back and forth between monitors?

Are you testing the Two18 and One18 models? Or do you feel that you need both?

As of now, I'm using the PMC TwoTwo6 monitors, and I'm getting along with them nicely. They're a 'bright' speaker, and I have a blast tracking and messing with them. Please note, I'm not a pro like most in the thread - therefore, I'm interested in a speaker that's great for enjoyment/mixing/tracking.

However, like most GearSlutz, curiosity can get the better of me. Although, I really don't want to be mucking with my setup until I'm finished my next project.

Cheers,

Phil
Old 17th June 2015
  #2950
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaver View Post
Thanks RoundBadge,

Which speaker are you using most for mixing duties? Or are you constantly flipping back and forth between monitors?

Are you testing the Two18 and One18 models? Or do you feel that you need both?

As of now, I'm using the PMC TwoTwo6 monitors, and I'm getting along with them nicely. They're a 'bright' speaker, and I have a blast tracking and messing with them. Please note, I'm not a pro like most in the thread - therefore, I'm interested in a speaker that's great for enjoyment/mixing/tracking.

However, like most GearSlutz, curiosity can get the better of me. Although, I really don't want to be mucking with my setup until I'm finished my next project.

Cheers,

Phil
flipping btw the BF's, One18's,ghetto blaster then car.
the BF's have all the low and sub info you'll ever need.
the Amphions took place of NS10's.
preferred the one's over the twos in my space[too much low mid buildup]
Old 17th June 2015
  #2951
Lives for gear
 

Hey Phil!

For me - The Amphions are my 'in a perfect world' speaker. They aren't necessarily the best at any ONE thing, but they are such a perfect balance of everything that they just 'work' for my ear. Mixes translate better than ever and I work faster and have far less fatigue.

The PMC's are definitely nice speakers, but the low end is too slow and soft for my taste (and feels disjointed to the mids/highs which are pretty fast/bright/clear). The Amphions on the other hand have an incredibly fast timing response and feel even from top to bottom. The PMC's might 'sound' more pleasing though as the low end is going to be more forgiving, but when a mix is right, it's a religious experience on the Amphions.

The Barefoots like RB said have much more sub information, but in my room the Two18's sound much more clear and defined in the low end than the Barefoots ever did. Might just be my room, but the Two18's WORK in here. The Barefoots are more muscular and have more power if that makes sense...Hard to describe. But the Amphions are more clear and have more detail/space in my room.

If you wanna come over sometime and check them out you're more than welcome. The best way I can describe them is like a blend between your PMC's (the high end), the tightness and punch of a Barefoot, the mid detail/forwardness/clarity/phase response of something like an NS10 (but without the harshness/ugliness), and the musicality of a ProAc (or PMC), and the speed/clarity of the Spiral Grooves (but not nearly as bright or fatiguing). They really take my favourite aspect of each speaker brand and kind of 'meld' them all into one...

They are not forgiving though (in a nice gentle way). They make you work very hard to get something to 'pop', but when it does it seems to translate everywhere from the Car, to a laptop an iPhone speaker...it's quite an incredible experience the first time you finish a mix on them. My mix revisions have gone down to nearly zero since working on them...

(BTW - the first mix I ever did on them was "Jackpot" by Jocelyn Alice which you might have heard on the radio up here)
Old 17th June 2015
  #2952
Lives for gear
 

double post

Last edited by spencerc; 17th June 2015 at 12:54 AM..
Old 17th June 2015
  #2953
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Hey Phil!

For me - The Amphions are my 'in a perfect world' speaker. They aren't necessarily the best at any ONE thing, but they are such a perfect balance of everything that they just 'work' for my ear. Mixes translate better than ever and I work faster and have far less fatigue.

The PMC's are definitely nice speakers, but the low end is too slow and soft for my taste (and feels disjointed to the mids/highs which are pretty fast/bright/clear). The Amphions on the other hand have an incredibly fast timing response and feel even from top to bottom. The PMC's might 'sound' more pleasing though as the low end is going to be more forgiving, but when a mix is right, it's a religious experience on the Amphions.

The Barefoots like RB said have much more sub information, but in my room the Two18's sound much more clear and defined in the low end than the Barefoots ever did. Might just be my room, but the Two18's WORK in here. The Barefoots are more muscular and have more power if that makes sense...Hard to describe. But the Amphions are more clear and have more detail/space in my room.

If you wanna come over sometime and check them out you're more than welcome. The best way I can describe them is like a blend between your PMC's (the high end), the tightness and punch of a Barefoot, the mid detail/forwardness/clarity/phase response of something like an NS10 (but without the harshness/ugliness), and the musicality of a ProAc (or PMC), and the speed/clarity of the Spiral Grooves (but not nearly as bright or fatiguing). They really take my favourite aspect of each speaker brand and kind of 'meld' them all into one...

They are not forgiving though (in a nice gentle way). They make you work very hard to get something to 'pop', but when it does it seems to translate everywhere from the Car, to a laptop an iPhone speaker...it's quite an incredible experience the first time you finish a mix on them. My mix revisions have gone down to nearly zero since working on them...

(BTW - the first mix I ever did on them was "Jackpot" by Jocelyn Alice which you might have heard on the radio up here)
The song is definitely cool for its genre and its target audience. I find that the main vocal is pushed back a bit where in today's top standards it should dominate the track and the mixing lacks energy and push required by pop music esp in the low end. The song is pretty energetic as a production, I can see where the producer wanted to go in terms of sound design and arrangement, but I don't feel that the mixing is following that consensus, its definitely more laid back for my tastes and from what I would expect a hard hitting groove based pop song to deliver.

Maybe I am too influenced from the UK pop scene where I have worked for, who knows. It might also be true that the two18's are more laid back speakers. Just offering some feedback and sticking it to the speakers not your personal skill of mixing. I have produced and mixed on laid back speakers with similar results and this direction of the song seems kinda familiar to me. Vocals and low end need to punch through walls for this type of music. This is my experience at least. From having heard the 15's series I think they would be way more suitable for mixing this genre or maybe any genre of energetic music.

Last edited by Aith; 17th June 2015 at 12:32 PM..
Old 18th June 2015
  #2954
t_d
Lives for gear
 
t_d's Avatar
I very happily placed an order this week for a pair of 901K. having worked on smaller geithain in a friend's studio and hearing large 900A in another I'm extremely excited to get a pair of my own.

I'll be selling my beloved MM27 to fund them, but will get a chance to have both in my room at the same time to compare.
Old 19th June 2015
  #2955
Amphion

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Hey Phil!

For me - The Amphions are my 'in a perfect world' speaker. They aren't necessarily the best at any ONE thing, but they are such a perfect balance of everything that they just 'work' for my ear. Mixes translate better than ever and I work faster and have far less fatigue.

The PMC's are definitely nice speakers, but the low end is too slow and soft for my taste (and feels disjointed to the mids/highs which are pretty fast/bright/clear). The Amphions on the other hand have an incredibly fast timing response and feel even from top to bottom. The PMC's might 'sound' more pleasing though as the low end is going to be more forgiving, but when a mix is right, it's a religious experience on the Amphions.

The Barefoots like RB said have much more sub information, but in my room the Two18's sound much more clear and defined in the low end than the Barefoots ever did. Might just be my room, but the Two18's WORK in here. The Barefoots are more muscular and have more power if that makes sense...Hard to describe. But the Amphions are more clear and have more detail/space in my room.

If you wanna come over sometime and check them out you're more than welcome. The best way I can describe them is like a blend between your PMC's (the high end), the tightness and punch of a Barefoot, the mid detail/forwardness/clarity/phase response of something like an NS10 (but without the harshness/ugliness), and the musicality of a ProAc (or PMC), and the speed/clarity of the Spiral Grooves (but not nearly as bright or fatiguing). They really take my favourite aspect of each speaker brand and kind of 'meld' them all into one...

They are not forgiving though (in a nice gentle way). They make you work very hard to get something to 'pop', but when it does it seems to translate everywhere from the Car, to a laptop an iPhone speaker...it's quite an incredible experience the first time you finish a mix on them. My mix revisions have gone down to nearly zero since working on them...

(BTW - the first mix I ever did on them was "Jackpot" by Jocelyn Alice which you might have heard on the radio up here)
Hey Spencer,

I enjoyed the mix. You got it to a place where the only thing people can criticize is their opinion; not technical mistakes.

Did you produce this track? I get a Lorde/Ellie Goulding type vibe, and I love the editing; the presentation was great.

I'd love to check out your place, again. However, the last time I went there I ended up purchasing new monitors! I'll wait until I finish up my project before tempting myself with Amphions.

As of now, I have had Warren's PMC TwoTwo8 demo monitors for the last 4 months (while he has been updating the firmware on my TwoTwo6 speakers). The TwoTwo8 speakers have gobs of power, but I prefer my own in my space. He's been travelling, and wants the 8s worked in a little more.

If I were to explain the differences, the TwoTwo8 speakers definitely extend lower on the bass end, but in terms of energy, I feel like the TwoTwo6 speakers were better. I can't explain it very well on a forum. I guess they feel more correct, if that makes sense? Although, it's most likely due to my ****ty room. Speakers extending into the lower Hz range will certainly exacerbate problems in my environment - which is why my next purchase will be a pair of Sennheiser HD 800s and eventually an SPL Phonitor amp.

I know it's off topic, but how do headphone amps (such as the SPL Phonitor series) with cross-feed/talk compare with a theoretically perfect room? Do any of you guys use this witchcraft in conjunction with high-end monitors?

For the MODERATORS: if you feel this question is off topic, by all means delete it!

Thanks everyone,

Phil
Old 28th June 2015
  #2956
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
(BTW - the first mix I ever did on them was "Jackpot" by Jocelyn Alice which you might have heard on the radio up here)
Listened to it a couple of times and I really enjoyed the song. You did a fine job on the mix, great vocal sound - intimate yet powerful without pushing the mid-range. She has an interesting voice and the "electro" pop thing suites her well. The other songs available on Spotify was good too, thanks to her vocal performance.

I'm going to enjoy watching her grow as an artist.


Cheers
Fred
Sound On Sound contributor
Old 28th June 2015
  #2957
Lives for gear
 

Guys,

I have the BF mm35 gen2.

I'm looking for a second reference monitor. I've been reading good reviews about the Amphions.

Do you think it'll be a good alternative to the mm35?

Thanks,
Alex
Old 28th June 2015
  #2958
Here for the gear
 

Anyone heard of the JBL 708?
Old 12th July 2015
  #2959
Gear Nut
Audiovisjon, please, can you try this speakers?:

- JBL LSR 705i/708i
- Audiofilia AF-SM1 (they go down to 18hz with a 6 inch woofer)

I'm really curious about how they perform against Amphion and Geithains
Old 12th July 2015
  #2960
Gear Nut
Audiovisjon, please, can you try this speakers?:

- JBL LSR 705i/708i
- Audiofilia AF-SM1 (they go down to 18hz with a 6 inch woofer)

I'm really curious about how they perform against Amphion and Geithains
Old 12th July 2015
  #2961
Here for the gear
 

H.Prince, there must be a mistake or some speculations as 6-inch woofer simply cannot produce 18 hz.
Old 12th July 2015
  #2962
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Krivicky View Post
H.Prince, there must be a mistake or some speculations as 6-inch woofer simply cannot produce 18 hz.
Audiofilia - AF-Speakers, High-end Loudspeakers

They have a technology called "The S System" that can do that (or at least they say that)
I'm really curious about that
Old 12th July 2015
  #2963
Here for the gear
 

It's not possible for those speakers to do 18hz, unless it's measured at something like -50db.
The new state of the art Devialet Phantom with its 3000w of amplification and dual dedicated bass drivers and DSP can manage 16hz, so no way a single mid bass driver in tiny cabinet can do 18hz
Old 13th July 2015
  #2964
Had a thread on it. Was famous. Thread died. New born again. What you need is not a theory but use of the speakers in your room and proper set-up.
Old 13th July 2015
  #2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSPL View Post
It's not possible for those speakers to do 18hz, unless it's measured at something like -50db.
The new state of the art Devialet Phantom with its 3000w of amplification and dual dedicated bass drivers and DSP can manage 16hz, so no way a single mid bass driver in tiny cabinet can do 18hz
actually you would probably die on that frequency.
Old 13th July 2015
  #2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Prince View Post
Audiofilia - AF-Speakers, High-end Loudspeakers

They have a technology called "The S System" that can do that (or at least they say that)
I'm really curious about that
Does Audiophilia's explanation of how their 'S System' works make you curious about their speakers?
The two paragraphs titled "How it works" represent some of the most outrageous nonsense (to be very polite) disguised as technical fact I have read in ages. Not a single sentence makes sense.

Audiofilia - AF-Speakers, High-end Loudspeakers


The text reminds me of Machina Dynamica which is targeted at audiophiles, not audio engineers.
Audio Tweaks, Damping, Vibration Isolation, Room Acoustics, Crystals
Old 13th July 2015
  #2967
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSPL View Post
It's not possible for those speakers to do 18hz, unless it's measured at something like -50db.
True, certainly 6" speaker can go 18 Hz, but only about 55 dB SPL…

It is quite amazing how ignorant audio professionals can be about basic things like the volume velocities needed to reproduce truly low frequencies at realistic levels. 6" woofer would have to have something like +-25 cm/10" peak to peak excursion to put out realistic levels in a reflex box at 18 Hz*. In a closed box more than twice that.

*) The largest Genelec sub with 4x12" drivers can do that, with +- 1.5 cm excursion. One 6" driver has 1/16 of the surface area, meaning the excursion would have to 16 times as large for the same volume velocities.
Old 13th July 2015
  #2968
Gear Nut
I didn't heard the speakers, but would be very interesting if Audiovisjon brings them to the test to compare and know how truth is what they say in their website.
Old 13th July 2015
  #2969
Gear Nut
Also, I found one gearslutz user post about them, saying that they claim even Amphion users have moved to their speakers :
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10897710-post19.html
Old 13th July 2015
  #2970
Gear Nut
Also, I found one gearslutz user post about them, saying that they claim even Amphion users have moved to their speakers :
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10897710-post19.html
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