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High end nearfield test Studio Monitors
Old 5th February 2014
  #1591
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ports - one sound

transmission line - another type of sound

sealed box - yet another type of sound

it really isn't complicated.

there's some transient lag with transmission lines, but rigid drivers ensures tight lo-mid and mids as well as a lot of spl.
Old 5th February 2014
  #1592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
How about you explain to me how PMC's 'Transmission Line' design isn't a variation of a bass reflex as opposed to 'Not' being a bass reflex?
This is getting a bit off topic, but:

Bass reflex box is a Helmholtz resonator, which has a certain resonating frequency. With some input it "sings" that frequency by itself. Like a beer bottle when you blow across the top. Bass reflex design uses this so that when the signal from the bass driver starts to drop, the box starts to resonate enforcing that frequency. Nifty! But it mangles the phase.

Transmission line (in real life designs like in PMC) is a long tube padded with wool or acoustic foam which absorbs higher frequencies and slows down the low frequencies, and the length of the tube is calculated so that the low frequencies are delayed one half wavelength (ideally) to enforce the bass driver output at front. In this way the "wasted" back radiation is taken to use. This has less effect on the phase, as we are actually using the radiation from the cone unlike in a bass reflex, where the box is actually resonating and the driver cone is doing very little.

In mathematical theory closed box, reflex and transmission line certainly can be seen as variations of one design, which means the theory is very good and exact. In real life these designs are usually picked from the far corners of the triangle making them not-so-related.
Old 5th February 2014
  #1593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
In mathematical theory closed box, reflex and transmission line certainly can be seen as variations of one design, which means the theory is very good and exact. In real life these designs are usually picked from the far corners of the triangle making them not-so-related.
Hmmmm, in 'real life' it appears that Mr. Thomas disagrees...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
Real world transmission line speakers are almost always hybrids.

Cheers,
Thomas
So tell me Petrus, are you saying PMC Transmission Line designs (as how they implement it) is a true transmission line design, with no hybrid of bass reflex at work---at all?
Old 5th February 2014
  #1594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
Hmmmm, in 'real life' it appears that Mr. Thomas disagrees...



So tell me Petrus, are you saying PMC Transmission Line designs (as how they implement it) is a true transmission line design, with no hybrid of bass reflex at work---at all?
It is not bass reflex, as that kind of box can not resonate. Bass reflex box, a Helmholtz resonator, needs a neck part (reflex tube or opening with certain volume) and a main air volume in the enclosure. These two then resonate at a certain frequency. They need to be distinct enough for the resonator to work. Padding and insulation inside the box, by the way, is there to kill higher frequency reflections and to make the resonating frequency wider and not so sharp (lower Q-value). In the Transmission line designs the padding is there for the same reason and to slow down the speed of sound, to make the line shorter for practical reasons. As it is transmission line boxes are big, heavy and expensive.

The mathematical theory includes all the designs and all possible intermediate variations. If we close the reflex tube we have a closed box, etc. This does not mean that a closed box and a bass reflex are the same, just that they can both be modeled with the same equations. Same thing with (open) transmission lines.

Acoustic suspension design: tight bass, but not much of it, cheap to construct.
Bass reflex design: most bass extension, loose bass, compact box, good efficiency.
(Open) transmission line: good bass extension, good bass, big and expensive box, can not easily designed by calculations only like the two other, as the effect of the acoustic materials can not be exactly predicted (like the stuffing tightness of lamb's wool…), needs testing.

Look up "High Performance Loudspeakers" by Martin Colloms. 80% goes over an average head, but there you get a solid foundation to argue these matters with above average credibility.
Old 5th February 2014
  #1595
Gear Addict
can we stop this bass reflex vs transmission line discussion now
Old 5th February 2014
  #1596
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER View Post
can we stop this bass reflex vs transmission line discussion now
+ 1

Where are the first impressions of the Strauss? Eager beaver to read'em here......
Old 5th February 2014
  #1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
+ 1

Where are the first impressions of the Strauss? Eager beaver to read'em here......

+1
Old 9th February 2014
  #1598
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robstrobe's Avatar
my advice for a precise monitoring system?


Meyer Sound HD-1


...hard to find anything compareable...
Old 9th February 2014
  #1599
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Strauss SE-NF-3 first impressions !

Hey friends!

Sorry for the late reply but its been a very busy week.


I have been working with recording , mixing and mastering projects this week with Strauss SE-NF-3 as my monitors. I probably need a week or so more before I can give a decent review.

After hearing the statements to both Daniel and Jürgen I had very high expectations to the Strauss monitors. So high that I held off my order at Geithain until I heard them ( to mr Olaf´s frustration..haha ).

The SE-NF-3 is a great monitor but comparing it to the almost twice as expensive Geithain 944k1 is no use really. The Geithains is out of this league in every aspect and the SE-NF-3 fits more in the test with the middle price speakers like the Psi A21 , Neumann 310 etc.

Like all the speakers in the test the Strauss definitely deserves the label of high end. The imaging is good , the front to back relationship is great, the transient response is very fast and the detail is great. Though they do not extend as low as the other speakers in the test they sound pretty balanced frequency-wise as a first impression. If I didn't have the extensive experience with all of these speakers I would probably be happy working with the SE-NF-3.

When it comes to the subjective interaction with me and my workflow I am not quite convinced. The transient response reminds me of the Barefoots and feels overly emphasised . This is a good thing for some users because it brings out micro dynamics and details but I have learned that this quality don't translate my work as good as I want to.

This aspect has a tendency to reveal flaws very well but will still be pushing me further in that very same direction even when the flaw is addressed and good to go. Because of this I keep shaving off transients and removing more of the harshness and esses until I hear the sound like I want to perceive it. My problem is that this is usually to far with this kind of speaker.

Again I am sorry to say that this causes my ears to tire very fast and inspiration is lost during the fighting of these battles.

It is important to emphasise that it takes a really good designer to achieve this kind of detail in a speaker, but as a engineer I don't interact very well with this quality. I need balance in every aspect of the speaker. As stated no more no less.

I am also working a lot with acoustic drums and live instruments that bring this quality to its limit. With programmed material and more electronic productions where you control the attack , release and transients of every element in the mix, this quality might be just what you are looking for.

The design is beautiful and the very small footprint might just be the ticket in many setups.

I will try to adjust even more the upcoming week and give you my final thoughts.

( I also had a chance to try out the new Grace m905 monitor controller this week. Let me know if anybody is interested in a short review )

Attached is a couple of pictures as promised..
Attached Thumbnails
High end nearfield test-strauss-se-nf-3.jpg   High end nearfield test-strauss-se-nf-3-2.jpg  
Old 9th February 2014
  #1600
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paul brown's Avatar
time to get on with the sonic art, Audiovisjon! the Geithains give you everything you need. it is obvious from your comments. you've done your time at the coal-face of reviewing! many thanks for your effort.
Old 10th February 2014
  #1601
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DR Music's Avatar
Please message me or post your toughts on the m905, have had my trusty DBox for years..
Old 10th February 2014
  #1602
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
time to get on with the sonic art, Audiovisjon! the Geithains give you everything you need. it is obvious from your comments. you've done your time at the coal-face of reviewing! many thanks for your effort.
That's what it comes across like from here too. Many thanks!!!
Old 10th February 2014
  #1603
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post

When it comes to the subjective interaction with me and my workflow I am not quite convinced. The transient response reminds me of the Barefoots and feels overly emphasised . This is a good thing for some users because it brings out micro dynamics and details but I have learned that this quality don't translate my work as good as I want to.
That's a matter of getting used to the speakers
Quote:
This aspect has a tendency to reveal flaws very well but will still be pushing me further in that very same direction even when the flaw is addressed and good to go. Because of this I keep shaving off transients and removing more of the harshness and esses until I hear the sound like I want to perceive it. My problem is that this is usually to far with this kind of speaker.
Translation is always a little bit of a subjective thing, is it?. What if a listener uses such a revealing, honest system. The remaining problems can be really annoying then. A lot of speakers are very forgiving regarding these problems and so a lot of records remain these problems.
But its still a problem of the recording not of the speaker.
So, I don`t see this point regarding translation. We don´t work for customers with crappy speakers only, don't we?
Yes, we have to work harder sometimes and especially with very problematic material we have still remain some artefacts cause to much processing is simply too much processing. So often its better to stay with flaws of the recording as with processing artefacts. But we know what we are doing and what we are deliver.

But maybe its more a point for a mastering grade system. Although fixing remaining problems in the mastering stage can't be the solution...

Quote:
I am also working a lot with acoustic drums and live instruments that bring this quality to its limit. With programmed material and more electronic productions where you control the attack , release and transients of every element in the mix, this quality might be just what you are looking for.
I don't really get this point...
Acoustic material needs a honest speaker. Electronic productions are quite more subjective. Also,there are no real flaws dynamic wise in it, there are no real resonances, no room sound...

I can get all your points for production stage. But for quality check in recording, mixing, mastering we simply need a honest system.
Old 10th February 2014
  #1604
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
we simply need a honest system.
are there any monitors that are not a compromise? can i ask what you use?

EDIT: As mentioned earlier every system has its flaws and compromises. So everyone has to choose HIS system for his own focus (post 1506)

you answered my question in an earlier post. you seem to be moving away from that position...
Old 10th February 2014
  #1605
Geariophile
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
are there any monitors that are not a compromise? can i ask what you use?
Indeed. "honest' is different depending on manufacturer and ones own perception.

I reckon what 'we' all need is an efficient tool to get the job done as simply and with as little fighting as possible. And if that turns out to be one where the balance is less towards ultimate detail (and this is where you all get to make your own minds up which approach gets you there quicker and easier...or at all....).....so be it.

I still will want to hear that Strauss one day for myself though...
Old 10th February 2014
  #1606
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matucha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
are there any monitors that are not a compromise?
No. Every design has tradeoffs, you can only choose monitors that work best with your room (another non-ideal piece of chain) and your (sonic) aesthetics. Adding complementary monitors with different set of "blind spots" is also beneficial.
Old 10th February 2014
  #1607
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul brown View Post
you answered my question in an earlier post. you seem to be moving away from that position...
No, why should I ?
Old 10th February 2014
  #1608
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey friends!

Sorry for the late reply but its been a very busy week.


I have been working with recording , mixing and mastering projects this week with Strauss SE-NF-3 as my monitors. I probably need a week or so more before I can give a decent review.

After hearing the statements to both Daniel and Jürgen I had very high expectations to the Strauss monitors. So high that I held off my order at Geithain until I heard them ( to mr Olaf´s frustration..haha ).

The SE-NF-3 is a great monitor but comparing it to the almost twice as expensive Geithain 944k1 is no use really. The Geithains is out of this league in every aspect and the SE-NF-3 fits more in the test with the middle price speakers like the Psi A21 , Neumann 310 etc.

Like all the speakers in the test the Strauss definitely deserves the label of high end. The imaging is good , the front to back relationship is great, the transient response is very fast and the detail is great. Though they do not extend as low as the other speakers in the test they sound pretty balanced frequency-wise as a first impression. If I didn't have the extensive experience with all of these speakers I would probably be happy working with the SE-NF-3.

When it comes to the subjective interaction with me and my workflow I am not quite convinced. The transient response reminds me of the Barefoots and feels overly emphasised . This is a good thing for some users because it brings out micro dynamics and details but I have learned that this quality don't translate my work as good as I want to.

This aspect has a tendency to reveal flaws very well but will still be pushing me further in that very same direction even when the flaw is addressed and good to go. Because of this I keep shaving off transients and removing more of the harshness and esses until I hear the sound like I want to perceive it. My problem is that this is usually to far with this kind of speaker.

Again I am sorry to say that this causes my ears to tire very fast and inspiration is lost during the fighting of these battles.

It is important to emphasise that it takes a really good designer to achieve this kind of detail in a speaker, but as a engineer I don't interact very well with this quality. I need balance in every aspect of the speaker. As stated no more no less.

I am also working a lot with acoustic drums and live instruments that bring this quality to its limit. With programmed material and more electronic productions where you control the attack , release and transients of every element in the mix, this quality might be just what you are looking for.

The design is beautiful and the very small footprint might just be the ticket in many setups.

I will try to adjust even more the upcoming week and give you my final thoughts.

( I also had a chance to try out the new Grace m905 monitor controller this week. Let me know if anybody is interested in a short review )

Attached is a couple of pictures as promised..
Hi Audiovision

I am sorry to hear that you are not totally convinced by the Strauss, and I hope you don't regret to have gotten those for your test because I recommended them.

Just one thing I would like to mention if I may: what you write with the transients that you say are overemphasized, that really is strange for me to hear. I accept that every thing is a matter of taste, but just those transients were one of the reasons why I am a fan of those Strauss Speakers. In a passive Design I don't think transients could be overemphasized, could they? At worst, if the drivers are "slow" they don't come and at best they would be as fast as the impulse in front of the mic was. I always missed transients on speakers and was listening to a Stax Headphone. On the Strauss I thought that finally I have found a speaker on which the transients were as good. The Transient Response of my bigger Strauss (Se-Mf2) have changed my live, as for me, being a engineer for Acoustic Music that was what I was looking for years. I think that the transients also on the little Se-Nf3 are as good as it gets and really one of the strengths of that speaker.

I just saw your photo, if I may make a suggestion, would it be possible to get the Strauss just a little bit closer towards the listening position? I say this, because my experience with the Strauss Se-Nf3 Speakers is that for what ever reason they shine best if they are a little bit closer then one would normally think. It might be, because the domain were I believe they are strong (the precision) is transmitted best when as few early reflexions as possilbe from a desk or so will come in to the picture.

Those are just my 2 Cents, as I recommended them I thought I bring that in. But if you don't like them all fine for me and congrats for you having done such a long test with so many speakers! And enjoy whatever works best for you!

Cheers,
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com

Last edited by idee und klang; 10th February 2014 at 05:02 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 10th February 2014
  #1609
Geariophile
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Hi Audiovision

I am sorry to hear that you are not totally convinced by the Strauss, and I hope you don't regret to have gotten those for your test because I recommended them.

Just one thing I would like to mention if I may: what you write with the transients that you say are overemphasized, that really is strange for me to hear. I accept that every thing is a matter of taste, but just those transients were one of the reasons why I am a fan of those Strauss Speakers. In a passive Design I don't think transients could be overemphasized, could they? At worst, if the drivers are "slow" they don't come and at best they would be as fast as the impulse in front of the mic was. I always missed transients on speakers and was listening to a Stax Headphone. On the Strauss I thought that finally I have found a speaker on which the transients were as good. The Transient Response of my bigger Strauss (Se-Mf2) have changed my live, as for me, being a engineer for Acoustic Music that was what I was looking for years. I think that the transients also on the little Se-Nf3 are as good as it gets and really one of the strengths of that speaker.

I just saw your photo, if I may make a suggestion, would it be possible to get the Strauss just a little bit closer towards the listening position? I say this, because my experience with the Strauss Se-Nf3 Speakers is that for what ever reason they shine best if they are a little bit closer then one would normally think. It might be, because the domain were I believe they are strong (the precision) is transmitted best when as few early reflexions as possilbe from a desk or so will come in to the picture.

Those are just my 2 Cents, as I recommended them I thought I bring that in. But if you don't like them all fine for me and congrats for you having done such a long test with so many speakers! And enjoy whatever works best for you!

Cheers,
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
You are doing it again. The way you speak of these things makes a lot of sense to me and I am getting a real feeling I may end up with them one day.....only, not now as they are too much, so I won't listen now either, no point. But thank you for bringing them on the radar.

I am sure a lot of people are going to be interested in them, regardless whether Audiovision ends up with them or not. The passive thing is more and more attractive to me (again), having recently stepped back from A21m's to ProAc Studio 100's. Something 'honest' about it.....and these things sure seem like superlative passives.
Old 11th February 2014
  #1610
Here for the gear
 
robstrobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post

Like all the speakers in the test the Strauss definitely deserves the label of high end. The imaging is good , the front to back relationship is great, the transient response is very fast and the detail is great. Though they do not extend as low as the other speakers in the test they sound pretty balanced frequency-wise as a first impression. If I didn't have the extensive experience with all of these speakers I would probably be happy working with the SE-NF-3.

When it comes to the subjective interaction with me and my workflow I am not quite convinced. The transient response reminds me of the Barefoots and feels overly emphasised . This is a good thing for some users because it brings out micro dynamics and details but I have learned that this quality don't translate my work as good as I want to.

This aspect has a tendency to reveal flaws very well but will still be pushing me further in that very same direction even when the flaw is addressed and good to go. Because of this I keep shaving off transients and removing more of the harshness and esses until I hear the sound like I want to perceive it. My problem is that this is usually to far with this kind of speaker.

Again I am sorry to say that this causes my ears to tire very fast and inspiration is lost during the fighting of these battles.

It is important to emphasise that it takes a really good designer to achieve this kind of detail in a speaker, but as a engineer I don't interact very well with this quality. I need balance in every aspect of the speaker. As stated no more no less.

I am also working a lot with acoustic drums and live instruments that bring this quality to its limit. With programmed material and more electronic productions where you control the attack , release and transients of every element in the mix, this quality might be just what you are looking for.

The design is beautiful and the very small footprint might just be the ticket in many setups.

I will try to adjust even more the upcoming week and give you my final thoughts.
Audiovision, you are doing the same thing I did last year.
After several month of testing and every 2/3 weeks new speakers, I felt like a speakerteststation :/

I have heard atcs, barefoot, genelecs, neumann, adams, pmcs, focal & meyer. Geithain for example had been too expensive for my pricerange, so I didn't order them, but what stuck in my head and ears had been the meyer hd-1 and the great service meyer had delivered to that point.

I got some offers from a couple of resellers, each around 8k, which I felt was a bit overpriced for the "level" they reproduce, so I started some research on the internet and actually found some used.
I knew at that point, that meyer actually refurbishs the speaker for really small cash, so I decided to go with those used speakers.
The guy who sold them came over from the netherlands and brought 7 pieces of hd-1, I ended up and bought all of them...
2 are now used by a friend of mine for fine mastering purposes. Lits of techno, house, jazz and classic music go through his hands.
another pair stayed with my friend and productionpartner dominik for production purposes, mainly techno and hip-hop.
and three pieces which formerly belonged to legend Les Paul found their new home in my studio for mixing and just enjoying good sound

What I can offer, if you are coming in march to the Frankfurt Musikmesse (tradeshow)...come pass my studio and bring some of your mixes or even stems, then we can do some rehearsal

I promise (at least I'm sure), you wont be disappointed
Attached Thumbnails
High end nearfield test-image_5427.jpg  
Old 11th February 2014
  #1611
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You are doing it again. The way you speak of these things makes a lot of sense to me and I am getting a real feeling I may end up with them one day.....only, not now as they are too much, so I won't listen now either, no point. But thank you for bringing them on the radar.

I am sure a lot of people are going to be interested in them, regardless whether Audiovision ends up with them or not. The passive thing is more and more attractive to me (again), having recently stepped back from A21m's to ProAc Studio 100's. Something 'honest' about it.....and these things sure seem like superlative passives.
Thanks! There are so many options, I guess finally, when one is looking for the "perfect" speaker for himself he has to do what Audiovision, me and many others have been doing: listening all the candidats and then decide what fits best for the needs.

Cheers,
Daniel
Old 11th February 2014
  #1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey friends!

Sorry for the late reply but its been a very busy week.
Hey fellow Norwegian

Do you have any experience with smaller monitors in the 10-15K NOK range?

What would you have picked for doing mostly electronic music in a small room (2.7x2.9x3m)? Yeah I know its not a ideal combination

Have you heard the AE22s?
Old 11th February 2014
  #1613
Geariophile
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Thanks! There are so many options, I guess finally, when one is looking for the "perfect" speaker for himself he has to do what Audiovision, me and many others have been doing: listening all the candidats and then decide what fits best for the needs.

Cheers,
Daniel
Allerdings.
Old 11th February 2014
  #1614
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Thanks! There are so many options, I guess finally, when one is looking for the "perfect" speaker for himself he has to do what Audiovision, me and many others have been doing: listening all the candidats and then decide what fits best for the needs.

Cheers,
Daniel
Very hard to audition 3-4 sets of monitors. At one time. In our recording rooms instead of someone else's.
Old 11th February 2014
  #1615
Here for the gear
 
robstrobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Thanks! There are so many options, I guess finally, when one is looking for the "perfect" speaker for himself he has to do what Audiovision, me and many others have been doing: listening all the candidats and then decide what fits best for the needs.

Cheers,
Daniel
Totally agreed!
We can recommend things, but you must get your own impression in your own environment!

But my offer is still available, if you would like to doublecheck at first
Old 11th February 2014
  #1616
Here for the gear
 

Hey fellow Norwegian, deepc0re
If you can afford a 21000,- NOK, the Opals are "bang for the buck", sorry my english if I spell the words wrong here. I live in Oslo, so you may have a quick listen at my livingroom. I have no studio, but use them for daily listening pleasure. I know that many here on Gearslutz prefer the Opals over the O310 and SM9 that cost twise the money. My room is not treated well, but I use a very good digital room correction that takes good care of the low end. I am a hifi-nerd that prefer studiogear over traditional hifi components. Earlier I had hifi speakers that costs 3-4 times the Opals, but I prefer the Opals over Proac Response 2, 2.5 and 3, and Martin Logan and Kef 107.....etc....etc. The Opals makes me think about an old speaker I had many years ago, the Spendor BC1, they are not similar in sound or voicing, but I have this feeling....I can't stop listening. I can sit and just listen for hours after hours.

If this is too expensive, you can have my old BM6A for 3000,- NOK
That is also a lot bang for the buck. I think they still sell this model for 19.900,- NOK on Prolyd. Too expensive, if you ask me. The Opals are mucho mucho better.

I live on Tøyen, Oslo, Kind Regards

Bergfinn


PS: I have a test-tone at 31,5 hz. This frequenzy tone are at the same level(dB) as the tones at 40 hz and 60 hz (on the Opals)

Last edited by Bergfinn; 11th February 2014 at 03:21 PM.. Reason: adding info
Old 11th February 2014
  #1617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergfinn View Post
Hey fellow Norwegian, deepc0re
If you can afford a 21000,- NOK, the Opals are "bang for the buck", sorry my english if I spell the words wrong here. I live in Oslo, so you may have a quick listen at my leavingroom. I have no studio, but use them for daily listening pleasure. I know that many here on Gearslutz prefer the Opals over the O310 and SM9 that cost twise the money. My room is not treated well, but I use a very good digital room correction that takes good care of the low end. I am a hifi-nerd that prefer studiogear over traditional hifi components. Erlier I had hifi speakers that costs 3-4 times the Opals, but I prefer the Opals over Proac Response 2, 2.5 and 3, and Martin Logan and Kef 107.....etc....etc. The Opals makes me think about an old speaker I had many years ago, the Spendor BC1, they are not similar in sound or voicing, but I have this feeling....I can't stop listening. I can sit and just listen for hours after hours.

If this is too expensive, you can have my old BM6A for 3000,- NOK
That is also a lot bang for the buck. I think they still sell this model for 19.900,- NOK on Prolyd. Too expensive, if you ask me. The Opals are mucho mucho better.

I live on Tøyen, Oslo, Kind Regards

Bergfinn
Hey Bergfinn! Thanks for the suggestion! 21K NOK is a bit much, but maybe I can find some used ones

I actually had some Dynaudio BM15a's, they where a bit too big for my previous room which is bigger than the room I have now, so I am a bit sceptical to larger bassreflex monitors for my tiny room.

I have not heard the BM6As but I've heard that many say they where better than the BM15A ones. The BM15As where OK I guess, but they didn't blow me away but I guess a large reason for that was my untreated room.


I'm also I bit of a hifi nerd. I have some Avalon opus ceramique clone DIY speakers (Thiel elements, crossover with duelund/mundorf etc.) , hypex ncore 400 amps and Buffalo III/Legato DAC in my livingroom.

So I already have some quite revealing speakers/setup to reference my mixes on, I guess what I want is some montiors with a tight and transient bottom end/good midrange and where bad mixes sound bad rather paying a lot for monitors that are detailed/transparent and open.
Old 11th February 2014
  #1618
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepc0re View Post
Hey fellow Norwegian

Do you have any experience with smaller monitors in the 10-15K NOK range?

What would you have picked for doing mostly electronic music in a small room (2.7x2.9x3m)? Yeah I know its not a ideal combination

Have you heard the AE22s?
In such a small room you should stay with your headphones, if you have your living room for listening on speakers.

You will have reaaaaalllllyyyy high energy and reverberation at round 60 Hz 120 Hz and 240 Hz. Especially with the dimensions so close to each other and therefore adding up. It will be impossible to find a spot where you can have a sweet spot without extreme dips or peaks. So extremely heavy low frequency absorption would be your only choice taking up even more space in you already small room.

That said, there is no relation between speaker size and room size.

There are speakers that need some distance to work with for their drivers being pretty far apart and therefore not melting well in short distances, but that has nothing to do with room dimensions.

Ever speaker in such a small room without treatment will sound extremely boomy and bass heavy and taking the reverberation into account it will sound extremely inaccurate in the low end.

But that is not a problem of the speaker it is a problem of the room. Without heavy bass treatment? stay with headphones.

And now back to high end near fields please.

Last edited by Basstian_DE; 11th February 2014 at 05:15 PM.. Reason: spelling still no good
Old 12th February 2014
  #1619
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
The passive thing is more and more attractive to me (again), having recently stepped back from A21m's to ProAc Studio 100's. Something 'honest' about it.....and these things sure seem like superlative passives.
Interesting. I owned the ProAc Response Two, which I believe is the upmarket "deluxe" version of the Studio 100, for years and found them to be very smeared and coloured. Their main strength was an inbuilt "soundstage" that they applied indiscriminately to everything that was played on them. It gave everything a pleasant glow but how anyone could trust them to convey what was being recorded with any measure of accuracy I just cannot fathom.

I used to place them alongside Lipinski L-707's and switch the speaker cable from one to the other. The Lipinski's were so ridiculously more focused I just had to feel sorry for the poor little ProAc's and soon after gave them away when the surround on one woofer was accidentally torn (watch the clips on those grills!).

Yet I'm constantly reading how good the Studio 100's are on this forum. They must sound very different to the Response Two.
Old 12th February 2014
  #1620
Geariophile
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Interesting. I owned the ProAc Response Two, which I believe is the upmarket "deluxe" version of the Studio 100, for years and found them to be very smeared and coloured. Their main strength was an inbuilt "soundstage" that they applied indiscriminately to everything that was played on them. It gave everything a pleasant glow but how anyone could trust them to convey what was being recorded with any measure of accuracy I just cannot fathom.

I used to place them alongside Lipinski L-707's and switch the speaker cable from one to the other. The Lipinski's were so ridiculously more focused I just had to feel sorry for the poor little ProAc's and soon after gave them away when the surround on one woofer was accidentally torn (watch the clips on those grills!).

Yet I'm constantly reading how good the Studio 100's are on this forum. They must sound very different to the Response Two.
Well, they still work for Serban Genea and Tony Maserati amongst many other top mixers........You don't hear issues with smearing in their mixes, do you?
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