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High end nearfield test
Old 13th January 2014
  #1501
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
now it gets really interesting ...
Hey JP!
Do you have any first hand experience with the Strauss monitors ? I am really wondering if I can afford any more testing. This is starting to get a bit out of hand.. I love the Geithains and every mix and master the last month has been approved by the clients during first audition. Pure happiness in a box so far !

I would assume the scan peak drivers of the Strauss monitor are excellent with a more transient rich and "micro detailed" image compared to the Geithains..probably very suitable for "flaw-searching" and mastering work ...
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Old 13th January 2014
  #1502
Here for the gear
 

Wow, finally caught up with the thread!

Just dropping by to thank Audiovisjon and everyone else who kindly provided their experiences, valuable information and dedicated time and effort to test so many monitors.

Way to go!
Old 14th January 2014
  #1503
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
...
Regarding the review I am holding the opportunity to test more speakers. I have tried emailing all the contacts to Spiral Grooves /Brian a month ago but have not received any answer.
...
Audiovisjon, did you see spencerc's offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
...
Where are we at on the Spiral Grooves? (I've only made it to page 24 of the thread). If they still haven't been tested, I would gladly donate the shipping costs to get a pair into audiovisons hands, as I'm now helping Brian destribute them in Canada and have an extra pair on hand...
...
Old 14th January 2014
  #1504
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Still stands!
Old 14th January 2014
  #1505
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inceptic View Post
Audiovisjon, did you see spencerc's offer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Still stands!
Hey guys! I am very positive to testing more speakers and especially the spiral grooves. Money wise I have to stop now and soon write the hole magazine review and hopefully get some of my investment back.

The transport insurance for all the speakers alone has been a big expense since I don´t have any yearly deals on this. I will happily include the spiral grooves in the test if shipping back and forth is covered and the pickup is ordered from you so insurence responsibility is taken off my hands.

Let me know if this is still of any interest : [email protected]
Old 14th January 2014
  #1506
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey JP!
Do you have any first hand experience with the Strauss monitors ?
Only listening, no intensive working experiences. Have listen to the small and midsize system, among other things together with geithain rl903. Good amplification is important.
Quote:
I am really wondering if I can afford any more testing. This is starting to get a bit out of hand.. I love the Geithains and every mix and master the last month has been approved by the clients during first audition. Pure happiness in a box so far !
Then stay with them. There will be always new challengers to the game. The most important thing is to know what you want to hear from such a system and that this system fits your needs and listening experiences.

Quote:
I would assume the scan peak drivers of the Strauss monitor are excellent with a more transient rich and "micro detailed" image compared to the Geithains..probably very suitable for "flaw-searching" and mastering work ...
This nails it very good. For me the Geithains were always to revealing and misses some important details, especially in classical recordings. For example regarding the use of spot mics.
For me everything sounds finished to early too.
As a lot of other studio monitors do...
Only the small SE-NF3 uses scan speak, afaik. There are a lot others systems, also on the diy market, with the same combination. Check A.O.S. or smart audio, for example.

The most important thing for me regarding a loudspeaker is how it can reproduce differences between recordings. For me this has to do with a good reproduction (micro)dynamic wise. A lot of speakers have great transient response in the highs, due to their tweeters. But they are lacking "speed" in their woofers. Tweeter and woofer don´t sound matched in their dynamic behaviour to my ears. And therefore they can not reproduce the inner dynamic behaviour of a recording very well. So everything sounds relatively similar due to the "sound" of the ls. This has nothing to do with its frequency response, btw. A loudspeaker can be ultra linear it its frequency response, but don't necessarily sound honest.
And a ls that is not very linear in frequency response can nevertheless sound very honest due to its (micro)dynamic behaviour.

As mentioned earlier every system has its flaws and compromises. So everyone has to choose HIS system for his own focus (most studio monitors are designed to match the listening expectations of a big group of listeners. Especially when they are used in big environments like broadcasters. If the users of a ls-system are switching a lot, then some aspects are a lot more important as one is using its system for its own. The listener expectations of customer is of course again a separate thing and always not easy to handle.) Talking about loudspeakers with people that have not the same listening experiences and expectations as you is simply not very productive in my experiences.

But nonetheless, a great thread, especially by your extraordinary commitment.
Old 14th January 2014
  #1507
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Only listening, no intensive working experiences. Have listen to the small and midsize system, among other things together with geithain rl903. Good amplification is important.
Then stay with them. There will be always new challengers to the game. The most important thing is to know what you want to hear from such a system and that this system fits your needs and listening experiences.

This nails it very good. For me the Geithains were always to revealing and misses some important details, especially in classical recordings. For example regarding the use of spot mics.
For me everything sounds finished to early too.
As a lot of other studio monitors do...
Only the small SE-NF3 uses scan speak, afaik. There are a lot others systems, also on the diy market, with the same combination. Check A.O.S. or smart audio, for example.

The most important thing for me regarding a loudspeaker is how it can reproduce differences between recordings. For me this has to do with a good reproduction (micro)dynamic wise. A lot of speakers have great transient response in the highs, due to their tweeters. But they are lacking "speed" in their woofers. Tweeter and woofer don´t sound matched in their dynamic behaviour to my ears. And therefore they can not reproduce the inner dynamic behaviour of a recording very well. So everything sounds relatively similar due to the "sound" of the ls. This has nothing to do with its frequency response, btw. A loudspeaker can be ultra linear it its frequency response, but don't necessarily sound honest.
A a ls that is not very linear in frequency response can nevertheless sound very honest due to its (micro)dynamic behaviour.

As mentioned earlier every system has its flaws and compromises. So everyone has to choose HIS system for his own focus (most studio are designed to match the listening expectations of a big group of listeners. Especially when they are used in big environments like broadcasters. If the users of a ls-system are switching a lot, then some aspects are a lot more important as one is using its system for its own. The listener expectations of customer is of course again a separate thing and always not easy to handle.) Talking about loudspeakers with people that have not the same listening experiences and expectations as you is simply not very productive in my experiences.

But nonetheless, a great thread, especially by your extraordinary commitment.
Thanks mate! I can definately relate to what your saying. As stated the first album I mastered on the Geithains did not translate optimal and I had to redo the tracks on the Pmc's to make the client happy.

The aspects of feeling finished to soon was definately a part of this. After a short learning period I noticed that I could push them further with less processing than what normally sounds good if that make sense. They translate extremely well when they sound spectacular and the effort makes the work so inspiring and fun.
As discussed they do not provide me with extreme microdetailes but instead a very detailed image of bigger parts of the elements. This puts me in a position to make very accurate decisions regarding balance, element smearing and freq-fighting, eq decisions on separate elements in addition to overall processing.

It might be a very good solution to have one hyperdetailed speaker for occasionally referance, maybe even as a pure mono source. I am considering this but I have found the best translation of my work thru the Geithains and it is a revelation to not sit all day caught up in microdetailes that dont translate and hurts my ears and inspiration...

It really comes down to personal preferences, workflow and translation....
Old 14th January 2014
  #1508
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JP__'s Avatar
 

I think there is hyper-detailed and hyper-detailed...
A speaker with good, somewhat self-evident details did not fatigue me as a revealing speaker I have to listen very concentrated to for catching those important details. It has also to do with the kind of music. Synthetic music not necessarily contains flaws in microdynamic as acoustic music do.

Its often an overemphasis in the design of the speaker what one can easily mix up with the feeling of too much details. Its not the details thats fatigue, its the overemphasis.
But I can see the point that too much honesty can slow down your work when mixing.
Old 14th January 2014
  #1509
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey JP!
Do you have any first hand experience with the Strauss monitors ? I am really wondering if I can afford any more testing. This is starting to get a bit out of hand.. I love the Geithains and every mix and master the last month has been approved by the clients during first audition. Pure happiness in a box so far !

I would assume the scan peak drivers of the Strauss monitor are excellent with a more transient rich and "micro detailed" image compared to the Geithains..probably very suitable for "flaw-searching" and mastering work ...
As my Studio is pictured here (with the "big" SeMf-2 Strauss pictured), let me just say for now that I really recommend to include Strauss Speakers when comparing monitors. I use all the monitors from Strauss (also the little Se-Nf 3) and couldn't be happier. The level of Detail and the representation of the "depht of field" is on a new level and makes it a joy to work.

Regards
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 14th January 2014
  #1510
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
As my Studio is pictured here (with the "big" SeMf-2 Strauss pictured), let me just say for now that I really recommend to include Strauss Speakers when comparing monitors. I use all the monitors from Strauss (also the little Se-Nf 3) and couldn't be happier. The level of Detail and the representation of the "depht of field" is on a new level and makes it a joy to work.

Regards
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Thanks Daniel ! I just found the picture on the Strauss site. Hope it was okey to post it. Beautiful setup !

I am in conversation with Jürgen Strauss these days to try getting the marvellous SE-NF-3 included in the test :-)
Old 14th January 2014
  #1511
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Thanks Daniel ! I just found the picture on the Strauss site. Hope it was okey to post it. Beautiful setup !

I am in conversation with Jürgen Strauss these days to try getting the marvellous SE-NF-3 included in the test :-)
No Problem and let me know if I can do something to be helpful on this.
Best
Daniel
Old 14th January 2014
  #1512
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
No Problem and let me know if I can do something to be helpful on this.
Best
Daniel
Great Daniel! How would you describe the consistency between the speakers. Do they sound the same but with different bass extension like the Geithains ?
Old 14th January 2014
  #1513
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Kimotei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
I am in conversation with Jürgen Strauss these days to try getting the marvellous SE-NF-3 included in the test :-)
Awesome!
Old 16th January 2014
  #1514
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoneymoproblem View Post
Just mixed a bunch of Indonesian metal (!!) on my HG3s.

Success in the waning days of 2013 I guess
What is the name of the band?
Old 16th January 2014
  #1515
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Final choice of speakers !

Hey guys!

Update information !

To make it short : After all this testing I feel that the Geithains monitors are superior to any other in the test. They interact with a perfect balance of details,power, frequency-extension, imaging, 3d, transient response, flatness, room integration qualities, and at the same time a wonderful musicality to my ears. All my work seems to translate very "effortlessly" with less processing and less production time .

I like them so much that I sold the main Pmc´s today to a fellow gearslutz member and ordered a pair of custom 801 K1 and a set of custom 944k1 in addition to applying for a dealer contract for bringing them into Norway.
( As earlier stated The Geithains was the only speaker in the test I did not have a reseller contract with, so I hope this proves my objectivity regarding the usual biased-problem associated with pushing products).

So from NOW on you can consider me biased regarding the Geithains product line..haha
I will update with further information when they arrive and are installed !

In the mean time the search might continue for a dedicated mono speaker....
Old 16th January 2014
  #1516
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paul brown's Avatar
Really Happy for you! a Big thanks for sharing the journey. what a way to start a new year...a new monitoring set-up. for me, it is the biggest decision in audio reproduction. you took a systematic and well-informed approach to your search. plus, you generously shared your observations and impressions in a helpful manner. Very commendable, Audiovisjon!
Old 16th January 2014
  #1517
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Wow, you sold the PMC's too........that's some decisive verdict!

Congrats on the "monitoring/coming home feeling" achievement after your so dedicated and thorough search! May you enjoy those Geithains for ages until curiosity creeps back for other stuff.
Old 16th January 2014
  #1518
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Great Daniel! How would you describe the consistency between the speakers. Do they sound the same but with different bass extension like the Geithains ?
Hi, the consistency is really great, the little Se-Nf3 sound very close to the big Se-Mf-2. The bigger his speaker the more "physical integrity" of the sound they can produce and they get even more precise. This is somewhat different to almost any other speaker, on which often I feel that the little one are precice but have no basses and their bigger one's have better bassresponse but are less precise. This is also the case with the geitheins, more over with their old series (901, 904, etc.). The biggest one (with the 18 Zoll woofer), was really nice but absolutely not precise. Even the little Strauss goes really deep, as for Mr. Strauss the frequency response has to be linear, even on a small speaker. So the little Strauss does not play as loud as other monitors in the same price class, but has a greater precicion and a wide frequency response. To me clearly in another leage then PSI's, Geitheins, or PMC (while the PMC I have to say I don't like at all, this has nothing to do with precision... ).

So I am wondering how you like the Strauss when you got them.

(I have to mention that I don't know the new serie from geithein very good, never had them in my studio. so I am wondering how they compare to the strauss)

Best
Daniel
Old 16th January 2014
  #1519
Here for the gear
 
Reviresco's Avatar
 

Well done Audiovisjon !
And thank you once again for sharing your journey and knowledge. It has definitely helped me go through the same process and am very close to owning a pair of PSI A21-M because of it.

One more request though - we need some photos of that amazing new set-up as soon as they come in!!
Old 16th January 2014
  #1520
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Something tells me the apparent peaceful ending here might still be rattled by the arrival of the Strauss .....looking forward to hearing the descriptions.
Old 16th January 2014
  #1521
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Kimotei's Avatar
This thread rocks!

Im so darn curious on the Strauss SE-NF3. I guess its better suited for mastering as it is intended for. But could be great to have in the studio to check the mix. Its not crazy expencive. With a recomended amp one of those should be like £2000 or £4000 a pair.

While we are waiting for more epic reviews, can someone recommend me a decent budget sub for the PSI A17? Looking at 2x Adam Sub 8, they are about €500 each at my local shop.. The PSI sub is to pricey for me at the moment. Maybe next year but not now.
Old 16th January 2014
  #1522
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Hi, the consistency is really great, the little Se-Nf3 sound very close to the big Se-Mf-2. The bigger his speaker the more "physical integrity" of the sound they can produce and they get even more precise. This is somewhat different to almost any other speaker, on which often I feel that the little one are precice but have no basses and their bigger one's have better bassresponse but are less precise. This is also the case with the geitheins, more over with their old series (901, 904, etc.). The biggest one (with the 18 Zoll woofer), was really nice but absolutely not precise. Even the little Strauss goes really deep, as for Mr. Strauss the frequency response has to be linear, even on a small speaker. So the little Strauss does not play as loud as other monitors in the same price class, but has a greater precicion and a wide frequency response. To me clearly in another leage then PSI's, Geitheins, or PMC (while the PMC I have to say I don't like at all, this has nothing to do with precision... ).

So I am wondering how you like the Strauss when you got them.

(I have to mention that I don't know the new serie from geithein very good, never had them in my studio. so I am wondering how they compare to the strauss)

Best
Daniel
Hey Daniel!

Thank you for your info and opinions.It´s very appreciated and most welcome!

Happy to hear this monitor choice was the right for you. I don´t know if you had a chance to follow this thread but I have tried to cover the aspect of precision and details vs translation in many of my tests. As we know monitoring is a very personal choice and aspects like clinical, precise and "brutal" might not interact the best with all of us depending of the line of work and how we want to experience and percieve our finished product.

I have gotten a number of mails from Barefoot owners among others that was reliefed by hearing other people are having trouble mixing at them for the very same aspects I have been mentioning in my thread. These are probably the most presise speakers in the world with +/- 1db response thru the full spectrum. If one interacts with them they will be a great tool, no doubt about it, but if you don´t interact with this approach its wise to look elsewhere regardless of price or quality.

The aspects of less fun, joy and inspiration comes to mind as the downsides of a too "brutal" speaker as your everyday tool. I have also tried to take into consideration the translation factor. Does the hyperdetailed speakers translate better to the outside world or only to the hyperdetailed speakers in front of you?

The Barefoots made me work very hard and I often got lost in microdynamics and details for hours and hours. I ended up mentally exhausted by these aspects and at the same time experiencing very little benefit of the effort. However.. They have been serving me very well and I am grateful for the years of trustworthy performance they have been giving me.

All the speakers in the test has amazing specs results that matches my measuring data. As stated I could be happy working with any of them. The Geithains has the best measuring results of the bunch with by far the flattest low- end extension down to almost 30hz. This 8 inch driver performs almost as good as two side firing 10inch drivers which to me is more than amazing. So your assumptions about the smaller Geithains being bass-light is not my experience at all. In fact the quite opposite.I feel very confident mixing the low end. The imaging is breathtaking making every element visually at present in front of you ready to take your next approach in processing.

This very fine line regarding no more, no less is what interacted with me the best and provides a very inspirational and joyful workflow in addition to a revealing and accurate tool that translate my work better than any other speaker I have worked with for 20 years.

Maybe the Strauss monitors can top that..That would be more than awesome and I would not hesitate to clear the path to the first place if this is so, regardless of my choice.

Thank you very much for the contribution Daniel. Your studio looks breathtaking and I can only imaging the quality of the work coming out of this room...
Old 16th January 2014
  #1523
Gear Head
 

Someone tried the ProAc Studio 140 (tower)?

I have the chance to get a pair for a good price.
I'm trying to schedule a listening session with the seller, but any input in advance would be very appreciated.
Still in the market for monitors, for the new mixing room.

Thanks.
Old 17th January 2014
  #1524
ECM
Gear Addict
Like mentioned before I taken the S4X after testing others such as the 944k1, a21m, MM27, SM9, in my private space. (Distance @ 2.4m) just not had time to write this up.

It come down to the 944k1 and S4X in the end though for the final shootout, and while the 944k1 are very nice monitors as already described in great detail by Audiovisjon, the man himself, I just feel they often tell me my work is finished to early, while this is a good thing to some, to others not, personal one here, some work better with all the detail being brought out as best and brutally honest as possible, some prefer a mixture of detail and pleasure, particularly when mixing, others a mixture of both.

I get more detail from the S4X in a more obvious fashion, but can still do the same amount of work but better than the 944k1 in a quicker amount of time, as one or two things usually are missed out and not reproduced on the 944k1, mainly not brought out as much, for example the problem can exist but not in the most obvious fashion, it's there, you just have to adjust yourself to look into that problem area, look into it, which I feel for some people is ideal, but for me with the S4X it tells me in full detail where it is more in my face, so I can zoom in properly and fix the problem in a more easy fashion, its there very close in front of me (Which is good or bad depending on what you like)

They both have a very different approach of reproducing what your hearing. S4X are just very open, with lots of depth, letting you zoom into each instrument/element of the mix in great detail to fine tune, more so than the mix as a whole, incredible mid range detail. Geithains where very easy to setup as the sweatspot is easy to find, while the Adams took a while to get in the correct position to get the most out of them, allot of fiddling. Using the V's as I prefer the low end especially (Deeper and more presence than the H) and fit into my private space better. (It would be unfair to compare S4X to the S3X/Opals etc, just not in the same ball park)

Not much else to say about the other monitors as it's already covered here in this thread, MM27, dunno what is it, just feel like am working to long on projects, spending more time than I need to, as the same results can easily be pulled out the S4X in a far less amount of time. Similar but in a much lesser manner on the a21m, just don't feel the level of openness in the mid range compared to the S4X, I'd take the a21m over the MM27's personally, but than I'd use the MM27 for mastering not mixing. SM9 have pretty nice low end, but it feels like there's a curtain covering them when changing to the other monitors, for me quite a boxed sound, as I normally find with focal monitors, more kind of hi fi, but you can easily work with them and make things translate, as you can with any of these monitors, you just have to test and see which one will fit you more for your personal taste, which will help your workflow go quicker/improve more.

I've managed to hear the Strauss SE-NF-3 and I think they are on another level in terms of detail representation in the most honest way when listening to a mix overall, than any of these monitors mentioned here, perfect for mastering, something you need to listen to, to appreciate. But for mixing and producing I prefer something a little less brutal in the mix overall. Sure I do a bit of mastering but I don't have a dedicated mastering setup in my private space, that's for elsewhere.

Other monitors would love to test, but time and money don't allow, and like audiovisjon I'm happy with what I got now and don't feel like a change again for a whle yet.

Thanks to Audiovisjon, for setting up the thread with all this great insight, pleasure to read and helped me into the right direction to pick something that fits me best.

Any more info send me a PM.
Old 17th January 2014
  #1525
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECM View Post
Like mentioned before I taken the S4X after testing others such as the 944k1, a21m, MM27, SM9, in my private space. (Distance @ 2.4m) just not had time to write this up.

It come down to the 944k1 and S4X in the end though for the final shootout, and while the 944k1 are very nice monitors as already described in great detail by Audiovisjon, the man himself, I just feel they often tell me my work is finished to early, while this is a good thing to some, to others not, personal one here, some work better with all the detail being brought out as best and brutally honest as possible, some prefer a mixture of detail and pleasure, particularly when mixing, others a mixture of both.

I get more detail from the S4X in a more obvious fashion, but can still do the same amount of work but better than the 944k1 in a quicker amount of time, as one or two things usually are missed out and not reproduced on the 944k1, mainly not brought out as much, for example the problem can exist but not in the most obvious fashion, it's there, you just have to adjust yourself to look into that problem area, look into it, which I feel for some people is ideal, but for me with the S4X it tells me in full detail where it is more in my face, so I can zoom in properly and fix the problem in a more easy fashion, its there very close in front of me (Which is good or bad depending on what you like)

They both have a very different approach of reproducing what your hearing. S4X are just very open, with lots of depth, letting you zoom into each instrument/element of the mix in great detail to fine tune, more so than the mix as a whole, incredible mid range detail. Geithains where very easy to setup as the sweatspot is easy to find, while the Adams took a while to get in the correct position to get the most out of them, allot of fiddling. Using the V's as I prefer the low end especially (Deeper and more presence than the H) and fit into my private space better. (It would be unfair to compare S4X to the S3X/Opals etc, just not in the same ball park)

Not much else to say about the other monitors as it's already covered here in this thread, MM27, dunno what is it, just feel like am working to long on projects, spending more time than I need to, as the same results can easily be pulled out the S4X in a far less amount of time. Similar but in a much lesser manner on the a21m, just don't feel the level of openness in the mid range compared to the S4X, I'd take the a21m over the MM27's personally, but than I'd use the MM27 for mastering not mixing. SM9 have pretty nice low end, but it feels like there's a curtain covering them when changing to the other monitors, for me quite a boxed sound, as I normally find with focal monitors, more kind of hi fi, but you can easily work with them and make things translate, as you can with any of these monitors, you just have to test and see which one will fit you more for your personal taste, which will help your workflow go quicker/improve more.

I've managed to hear the Strauss SE-NF-3 and I think they are on another level in terms of detail representation in the most honest way when listening to a mix overall, than any of these monitors mentioned here, perfect for mastering, something you need to listen to, to appreciate. But for mixing and producing I prefer something a little less brutal in the mix overall. Sure I do a bit of mastering but I don't have a dedicated mastering setup in my private space, that's for elsewhere.

Other monitors would love to test, but time and money don't allow, and like audiovisjon I'm happy with what I got now and don't feel like a change again for a whle yet.

Thanks to Audiovisjon, for setting up the thread with all this great insight, pleasure to read and helped me into the right direction to pick something that fits me best.

Any more info send me a PM.
Thanks ECM for your very informative experience. Very appreciated!
Old 17th January 2014
  #1526
Lives for gear
 
Kimotei's Avatar
Its funny, I read another long review thread here here on GS yesterday. The guy sold his Geithains and went on hunting for something new. He ended up with Quested v3110 as midfields and PSI 17A as nearfields. In the same manner as Audiovisjon he did very deep reviews. He went wisit the PSI factory and got to borrow almost all the models, then did a lot of shootouts against other brands. People have different tastes and they want diferent things from a speaker. I see that more clearly then ever now.

He really got me curious for the v3110. The way he describe them they seemed very inspirational to work with. Hans Zimmer aparently bought a bounch of Quested a couple of years ago. After reading some interviews with Zimmer a while back I became a fan. He tought me some valuble lessons. Creative and very open minded guy.

What really echos to me from THIS thread is find the speaker that works best for your personal workflow.
Old 17th January 2014
  #1527
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey Daniel!

Thank you for your info and opinions.It´s very appreciated and most welcome!

Happy to hear this monitor choice was the right for you. I don´t know if you had a chance to follow this thread but I have tried to cover the aspect of precision and details vs translation in many of my tests. As we know monitoring is a very personal choice and aspects like clinical, precise and "brutal" might not interact the best with all of us depending of the line of work and how we want to experience and percieve our finished product.

I have gotten a number of mails from Barefoot owners among others that was reliefed by hearing other people are having trouble mixing at them for the very same aspects I have been mentioning in my thread. These are probably the most presise speakers in the world with +/- 1db response thru the full spectrum. If one interacts with them they will be a great tool, no doubt about it, but if you don´t interact with this approach its wise to look elsewhere regardless of price or quality.

The aspects of less fun, joy and inspiration comes to mind as the downsides of a too "brutal" speaker as your everyday tool. I have also tried to take into consideration the translation factor. Does the hyperdetailed speakers translate better to the outside world or only to the hyperdetailed speakers in front of you?

The Barefoots made me work very hard and I often got lost in microdynamics and details for hours and hours. I ended up mentally exhausted by these aspects and at the same time experiencing very little benefit of the effort. However.. They have been serving me very well and I am grateful for the years of trustworthy performance they have been giving me.

All the speakers in the test has amazing specs results that matches my measuring data. As stated I could be happy working with any of them. The Geithains has the best measuring results of the bunch with by far the flattest low- end extension down to almost 30hz. This 8 inch driver performs almost as good as two side firing 10inch drivers which to me is more than amazing. So your assumptions about the smaller Geithains being bass-light is not my experience at all. In fact the quite opposite.I feel very confident mixing the low end. The imaging is breathtaking making every element visually at present in front of you ready to take your next approach in processing.

This very fine line regarding no more, no less is what interacted with me the best and provides a very inspirational and joyful workflow in addition to a revealing and accurate tool that translate my work better than any other speaker I have worked with for 20 years.

Maybe the Strauss monitors can top that..That would be more than awesome and I would not hesitate to clear the path to the first place if this is so, regardless of my choice.

Thank you very much for the contribution Daniel. Your studio looks breathtaking and I can only imaging the quality of the work coming out of this room...
Hi Audiovision - i'am with you with everything you are saying. no I have not followed the thread, I am not a regular gearslutz follower, I just sometimes jumped in that thread and have read what your findings were. I have tested really a lot of monitors when I built my studio, but I have to admit that your are really doing this on another level (so many brands) and with great seriousness.

But when I say "precision" and "transparency I probably mean something different. To me there are two types of monitors, transparent ones and non transparent ones. For mix both works, and more engineers don't need or want full transparency or they just can do better mixes on non transparent ones (even NS10)... Transparency means to me that the depth of field is perfect in all freqeuncy ranges even across the crossovers and Impulses are impulses, even in the Bassdomain, and high frequencies don't get overtones from the tweeter that are not there in the recording. That I have found to be the case only with the Strauss SE-MF-2 (his top modell). They have been custom built for the Masteirng Rooms at Sony Musik Studio Tokio. The Engineers there wanted to have a really "transparent" Monitor and set up a competition and invited Manufactures to take part of it. As they knew most monitors on the planet and no-one was transparent enough for them, they asked to develop a transparent Speaker. Who-ever would be successful from them they would buy 28 Speakers whatever the price would be. Mr. Strauss had already a concept how to build a Mastering Speaker that would bring "transparency" at the next level with another aproach then what usually speaker manufactures are doing. But the development would have been too expensive, as the speaker would be expensive and most studio will not invest so much money, not even mastering houses. However with the option to sell 28 Speaker right away he could take the risk, as he was quite sure that he will win. More then 30 Developers made Prototyps of new speakers. Strauss won and the Mastering-Engineers said :" we never have heard such accurate Mastering Monitors ever before". When I heard them the search for me was over, I new I needed them.

Obviously the monitors discussed in that thread are not such expensive ones, so from Strauss the Se-Nf3 is in the discussion, which is his "little" Nearfield Mastering Monitor. the Prices discussed here are wrong though, a pair of Se-Nf-3 is 6800 Swiss Franks (around 7500 Dollar or 5500 Euro. Add a good Amp).

As for the Geitheins which model do you have? What I am saying realates only to the old models. I don't remember how much bass they have, but I do know that they are not as transparent and precise as the Se-Nf-3 for sure. But with newer githeins that might be different. I use the Se-Nf-3 for recordings in other sutdios or mobile recordings. I can judge all parameters of music on the Strauss. Most important to me is, if the physical integritiy is right. Is the bassdrum big enough? Can I hear the body of the snare? How "big" is the singer? On most speakers this information is not correct.

Cheers,
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 17th January 2014
  #1528
Lives for gear
 
Kimotei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
As for the Geitheins which model do you have? What I am saying realates only to the old models. I don't remember how much bass they have, but I do know that they are not as transparent and precise as the Se-Nf-3 for sure. But with newer githeins that might be different.
Someone way back on this thread had worked with both old and new models and said they were basicly the same exept better bass extention on the new ones. Someting along those lines..
Old 18th January 2014
  #1529
Lives for gear
 
Audiovisjon's Avatar
Strauss SE-NF-3 update !

We have just agreed to have the Strauss SE-NF-3 entering the test. Mr Jürgen Strauss has been very positive and helpful and will send me a pair next week if everything goes as planned.

I am very exited about this and feel the comparison between the Strass SE-NF-3 and Geithain 944K1 might be the most interesting in the test.
Can´t wait !
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High end nearfield test-se-nf-3-gesamt.jpg  
Old 18th January 2014
  #1530
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

It ain't over until the square, submarine lookin lady sings then.......awaiting interesting descriptions.
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