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High end nearfield test
Old 16th August 2015
  #3061
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Dpro's Avatar
Wow has this thread gone south. Ok guys arguing the benefits of passive vs powered is all fine but you are straying off the topic of the thread. It's a high end nearfield monitor thread, passive or active does not matter.

What matters is do the products deliver. Given the topic of the thread there have been some excellent passive and actives presented that have both proven to excel.

I think you should start a new thread titled passive or active what is better.
I am probably not alone in my thoughts of not wanting to see you argue that fact hear and wanting to see more high end monitors tested.
Old 16th August 2015
  #3062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpro View Post
Wow has this thread gone south. Ok guys arguing the benefits of passive vs powered is all fine but you are straying off the topic of the thread. It's a high end nearfield monitor thread, passive or active does not matter.

What matters is do the products deliver. Given the topic of the thread there have been some excellent passive and actives presented that have both proven to excel.

I think you should start a new thread titled passive or active what is better.
I am probably not alone in my thoughts of not wanting to see you argue that fact hear and wanting to see more high end monitors tested.
I would have to agree, it is hard enough to sift through this giant thread without these pages of trivial debates. Most people aren't here to research the merits of active vs. passive; start a new thread for that please.
Old 28th August 2015
  #3063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
I have not seen one person working with Amphion and 8351 yet and compare.
I've had them side by side for the past week.
Biting my tongue about the 8351's. If you can't say something nice ......
Old 28th August 2015
  #3064
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murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
I've had them side by side for the past week.
Biting my tongue about the 8351's. If you can't say something nice ......
wow!
please report once you work with the gens...
but so far, you prefer amphion?
Old 28th August 2015
  #3065
Gear Maniac
 
Oskari J.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
I've had them side by side for the past week.
Biting my tongue about the 8351's. If you can't say something nice ......
Yes PLEASE, give us more. Been waiting for this one!
Old 28th August 2015
  #3066
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(I've completely changed my opinion on these. I'll leave my original post below for reference.
I had some sort of issue with SAM software that wouldn't fully reset or implement changes to both speakers.
Drove me crazy, is intermittent and likely due to aging CAT 5 cables.
They also don't like to be sideways in my room ("in my room" being the important point there), and I had them sideways for a good amount of listening time.
Reset to factory settings - sitting vertical - no SAM - really full sounding, impressively cohesive speakers.

I'm going to update the few post I've made about them so as to not put off anyone from getting a demo on them.)I'm just the wrong guy for the way they are voiced.)


Full disclosure - I'm a spoiled brat when it comes to monitors as I've put a disproportionate amount of my money into them. (ATC 150s in my main room, Amph two18's as my 2-way ref, ATC 25's in my home composing rig). Nothing more important than your speakers+room.

8351 are to my ears voiced in the lineage of Meyer HD1. Bright, upper mid forward, low mid lean, extended low end. In this regard they might be the best speaker ever made with this sound aesthetic. The low end is truly extended. No spec hype with them. They go low and do so flat.

Audiojon at the beginning of his epic thread described his desire to find a speaker that was neutral enough that they sound musical yet still accurate. I've always agreed with this. Great mixes should sound great. Bad sound bad. etc. and in this regard I'm not bonding with the voicing of the 8351's.The upper mid forward HD1 - NS10 thing just doesn't work for me. Earthworks and Lipinski are two additional examples of this type of presentation that some love and I can't work with. MM27's to my ears are a tad upper mid forward but they have a full warm low mid, which keeps them balanced.

Keep in mind that I actually like the old genelec 10xx series. Every time I hear a set of 1031's they make me smile. many years logged on a set of those.So I'm surprised at the direction they took with the 8351's.
If you find that my list of upper mid forward speakers are among your favorite then put the 8351's on your short list to demo.
If you always wanted the grail of NS10's plus a sub - they might be the ticket.

I'm reluctant to say that amphions are more musical or that ATC are both more musical while being more analytical in the mids (love the atc mid dome) as that kind of a statement could be construed as slamming the 8351's as being un-musical. Which is not my intent at all.

I've always been fascinated with how we each hear the mid range very differently. Warm low mids = muddy to some. Upper mid forward = clear and open to guys who hear it the opposite of what I hear.


Make sense??

This sort of amazing contrast in how differently we hear midrange is what makes forum threads about speakers such a minefield and often unproductive which is why I am trying to give many examples to touch on for reference. Please take my comments with all the weight deserved (which is less than zero). Whatever speaker nudges you in the right directions that give you better mixes is the only right answer and you can't know until you do a mix on a speaker.

Last edited by edham; 1st January 2016 at 05:39 AM..
Old 30th August 2015
  #3067
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
I'm just the wrong guy for the way they are voiced.
Full disclosure - I'm a spoiled brat when it comes to monitors as I've put a disproportionate amount of my money into them. (ATC 150s in my main room, Amph two18's as my 2-way ref, ATC 25's in my home composing rig). Nothing more important than your speakers+room.

8351 are to my ears voiced in the lineage of Meyer HD1. Bright, upper mid forward, low mid lean, extended low end. In this regard they might be the best speaker ever made with this sound aesthetic. The low end is truly extended. No spec hype with them. They go low and do so flat.

Audiojon at the beginning of his epic thread described his desire to find a speaker that was neutral enough that they sound musical yet still accurate. I've always agreed with this. Great mixes should sound great. Bad sound bad. etc. and in this regard I'm not bonding with the voicing of the 8351's.The upper mid forward HD1 - NS10 thing just doesn't work for me. Earthworks and Lipinski are two additional examples of this type of presentation that some love and I can't work with. MM27's to my ears are a tad upper mid forward but they have a full warm low mid, which keeps them balanced.

Keep in mind that I actually like the old genelec 10xx series. Every time I hear a set of 1031's they make me smile. many years logged on a set of those.So I'm surprised at the direction they took with the 8351's.
If you find that my list of upper mid forward speakers are among your favorite then put the 8351's on your short list to demo.
If you always wanted the grail of NS10's plus a sub - they might be the ticket.

I'm reluctant to say that amphions are more musical or that ATC are both more musical while being more analytical in the mids (love the atc mid dome) as that kind of a statement could be construed as slamming the 8351's as being un-musical. Which is not my intent at all.

I've always been fascinated with how we each hear the mid range very differently. Warm low mids = muddy to some. Upper mid forward = clear and open to guys who hear it the opposite of what I hear.

So as more guys get the 8351's I'm sure you will hear them described as deep, open, clear, - which to my ears is thin, honky, harsh etc.
I will agree with the deep description though. pretty phenomenal in that regard.

I could never get a mix out of Hd1's, Lipinski's or NS10's. ATC= LOVE. Amphions = musical, accurate and in the case of two18's which have a bit of extra low mid warmth that I find really useful..

Make sense??

This sort of amazing contrast in how differently we hear midrange is what makes forum threads about speakers such a minefield and often unproductive which is why I am trying to give many examples to touch on for reference. Please take my comments with all the weight deserved (which is less than zero). Whatever speaker nudges you in the right directions that give you better mixes is the only right answer and you can't know until you do a mix on a speaker.
This has been the most productive post in this thread for a long time now. Not so much because of the content but because of the well thought tone. I have worked with both monitors but I 've had my thoughts written in the Amphion thread. I do not agree that the Gens are anything like NS10s, people are saying that about the amphions. The stereo image in the Gens is untouchable. Atc's tire me a lot as I have been working on 150's for a loooong time now and I nowadays find them uninspiring. Too much detail.. The Gens are very musical and inspiring but cleaner than the amphions. I dont like congested low mids so I can see your point there. Its fair to say it is all a matter of voicing difference, this is true. But Gens have better frequency range and an out of this world stereo spread and this is a fact that has nothing to do with opinions.

Last edited by Aith; 30th August 2015 at 07:41 PM..
Old 31st August 2015
  #3068
ECM
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aith View Post
This has been the most productive post in this thread for a long time now. Not so much because of the content but because of the well thought tone. I have worked with both monitors but I 've had my thoughts written in the Amphion thread. I do not agree that the Gens are anything like NS10s, people are saying that about the amphions. The stereo image in the Gens is untouchable. Atc's tire me a lot as I have been working on 150's for a loooong time now and I nowadays find them uninspiring. Too much detail.. The Gens are very musical and inspiring but cleaner than the amphions. I dont like congested low mids so I can see your point there. Its fair to say it is all a matter of voicing difference, this is true. But Gens have better frequency range and an out of this world stereo spread and this is a fact that has nothing to do with opinions.
I don't find the 8351 anything at all related to the NS10 either. The 8351 are an incredible monitor, which sound like lifting a curtain open of accurate detail compared to amphions, but have a very different open, wide, pin point sound yet still sound musical and not harsh at all (to my ears) But some may find that accuracy and openess to much, everyones ears are different and have different tastes of monitor styles.
Old 31st August 2015
  #3069
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Oskari J.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECM View Post
I don't find the 8351 anything at all related to the NS10 either. The 8351 are an incredible monitor, which sound like lifting a curtain open of accurate detail compared to amphions, but have a very different open, wide, pin point sound yet still sound musical and not harsh at all (to my ears) But some may find that accuracy and openess to much, everyones ears are different and have different tastes of monitor styles.
Can they sound velvet, thick and closed in when the material is so, or is it the type of analytical sound that picks stuff apart?

What I mean is: when I listen to Nick Drake's cassette recordings, it's supposed to sound murky, dull, fluffy and undefined, with a soft pink noise backdrop.

On the other hand, "Röyksopp - The girl and the robot" should have a borderline painful treble.
Old 1st September 2015
  #3070
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Athanasius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey guys!

I am trying to do a big test and review of several high end monitors in my studio.Barefoot mm27 gen1 and gen2, Pmc Aml2 , Twotwo, Geithain 944K1, Atc Smc25, Focal Sm9, Psi´s, Klein&Hummel and Neumann Kh310 among others are includ

Though some midfields will be brought in for comparison I will try to focus on speakers I can use in a near field position.
My plan is to try all of these magnificent speakers over a 3month period.

I will do subjective and objective tests to find out what to expect regarding differences in addition to my personal experience with them all.
I will also at the end buy the speaker that fits my room, my specifications and my needs!
I can help you just with ATC scm25, Focal SM9, K&H, and Neumann. I would take the last two out of the way. The scm 25 has some serious time coherence issues. The SM9 to me, has been the clear winner between the four listed, with the scm 25 clear second, way ahead from the last two. In the beginning, the sm9 will seem somewhat lacking loudness; don't be confused. This is just due to the very low distortion level, making things sound weaker. In fact, they reveal weak messages. They will help you, make more powerful ones. Anyway, the only proper answer will be given to you by your own tests. Good luck.
Old 1st September 2015
  #3071
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
I can help you just with ATC scm25, Focal SM9, K&H, and Neumann. I would take the last two out of the way. The scm 25 has some serious time coherence issues. The SM9 to me, has been the clear winner between the four listed, with the scm 25 clear second, way ahead from the last two. In the beginning, the sm9 will seem somewhat lacking loudness; don't be confused. This is just due to the very low distortion level, making things sound weaker. In fact, they reveal weak messages. They will help you, make more powerful ones. Anyway, the only proper answer will be given to you by your own tests. Good luck.


Answering the OP's first post after two years, over 3,000 posts and half a million views - and - after the OP has done serious tests of almost all the top-end monitors and bought the ME-Geithain RL801K-1 for his main monitors and the RL944K-1 for his nearfields - he posted his final reasonings in this post.
Old 1st September 2015
  #3072
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murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post


Answering the OP's first post after two years, over 3,000 posts and half a million views - and - after the OP has done serious tests of almost all the top-end monitors and bought the ME-Geithain RL801K-1 for his main monitors and the RL944K-1 for his nearfields - he posted his final reasonings in this post.
OP also bought the amphion's two18 for his nearfield.

OP, will you still test other speakers or your search have come to an end?

Id really like to see harbeth 30.1!
Old 1st September 2015
  #3073
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Athanasius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post


Answering the OP's first post after two years, over 3,000 posts and half a million views - and - after the OP has done serious tests of almost all the top-end monitors and bought the ME-Geithain RL801K-1 for his main monitors and the RL944K-1 for his nearfields - he posted his final reasonings in this post.
Thank you for the notice. Very foolish indeed... You talk to a visually disabled here though. Thanks again!
Old 2nd September 2015
  #3074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
The scm 25 has some serious time coherence issues.
Only in this thread has anyone asserted this as some sort of a fact - which was also disputed in this thread by one of the best designers on the planet. I've run the same tests on 25's and got the expected excellent results (which were nothing like the assertions in this thread.
Old 2nd September 2015
  #3075
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Athanasius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
Only in this thread has anyone asserted this as some sort of a fact - which was also disputed in this thread by one of the best designers on the planet. I've run the same tests on 25's and got the expected excellent results (which were nothing like the assertions in this thread.
Just a little fact; http://resolution.nodecube.net/produ...M25A%20Pro.pdf
Old 8th October 2015
  #3076
Moderator
 
Northward's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham
Only in this thread has anyone asserted this as some sort of a fact - which was also disputed in this thread by one of the best designers on the planet. I've run the same tests on 25's and got the expected excellent results (which were nothing like the assertions in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
Maybe the Author should read that before ever writing another article.

Frontiers

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ATC response.
Old 8th October 2015
  #3077
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
Only in this thread has anyone asserted this as some sort of a fact - which was also disputed in this thread by one of the best designers on the planet. I've run the same tests on 25's and got the expected excellent results (which were nothing like the assertions in this thread.
Please, could you post your measurements ?
Old 8th October 2015
  #3078
Gear Nut
 

Barefoot just release the MM26 ! u should test these against the most recent winners
Old 25th October 2015
  #3079
Gear Maniac
 
flipnaut's Avatar
 

Searching new monitors at 2.000 Usd for a pair. Any ideas? I have KH120 and think of a subwoofer for them or the other option is to get a pair of better monitors - f.e. ks digital d606. If i had the money i would go kh310, amphion or psi of course... anyone has an idea?
Old 26th October 2015
  #3080
Gear Nut
 

Wait and Save for a real improvement.
Old 26th October 2015
  #3081
Gear Maniac
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Did the OP ever try out the B&W 802's?
Old 26th October 2015
  #3082
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Be interesting to hear the op compare what has been tested so far with the latest sonodyne and se eggs? I bet that would be very interesting indeed.
Old 19th November 2015
  #3083
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jlaws's Avatar
What page is the summary on again?
Old 19th November 2015
  #3084
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipnaut View Post
Searching new monitors at 2.000 Usd for a pair. Any ideas? I have KH120 and think of a subwoofer for them or the other option is to get a pair of better monitors - f.e. ks digital d606. If i had the money i would go kh310, amphion or psi of course... anyone has an idea?
For that money I would would at least be checking out the only-recently-shipping JBL LSR 705 plus one or two subs. The speakers themselves sell for $687 each but require a hefty amplifier (250wpc recommended). I would be inclined to try a Crown XLS drivecore series amplifier with their variable high pass/low pass/ bandpass feature like the XLS 2002, and a couple (or at least one) of the subs that are being sold with them, the sub 260 (12" 300w, $600). That should give you a distinct improvement. You could buy the pair of 705s first (with the Crown amp) for $1833, then save for the sub(s).
The 705s alone with that amp would be certain to blow the doors off the KH120s for not much more money and would be more 'sub-ready' than the KH120s.

Here's an enthusiastic thread on the subject:
JBL 705i/708i (7 Series Master Reference Monitors) & 725G/728G (subwoofers): Jan 2015 - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Old 9th December 2015
  #3085
maybe I have overseen it, but have you been checking on Meyer Sound HD-1 or on the new Modell Amie?

I did the same test in 2013...wish you loads of fun while listening and making yourself a hard decision <3

R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon View Post
Hey guys!

I am trying to do a big test and review of several high end monitors in my studio.Barefoot mm27 gen1 and gen2, Pmc Aml2 , Twotwo, Geithain 944K1, Atc Smc25, Focal Sm9, Psi´s, Klein&Hummel and Neumann Kh310 among others are included.

Though some midfields will be brought in for comparison I will try to focus on speakers I can use in a near field position.
My plan is to try all of these magnificent speakers over a 3month period.

I will do subjective and objective tests to find out what to expect regarding differences in addition to my personal experience with them all.
I will also at the end buy the speaker that fits my room, my specifications and my needs!
Old 9th December 2015
  #3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by robstrobe View Post
maybe I have overseen it, but have you been checking on Meyer Sound HD-1 or on the new Modell Amie?

I did the same test in 2013...wish you loads of fun while listening and making yourself a hard decision <3

R.
I searched Modell Amie on google and found this :

https://www.google.es/search?q=Model...AlYxNfF5n1k%3D




I don't know what I prefer ... ouh man, of course the speakers LOL
Old 9th December 2015
  #3087
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robstrobe View Post
maybe I have overseen it, but have you been checking on Meyer Sound HD-1 or on the new Modell Amie?

I did the same test in 2013...wish you loads of fun while listening and making yourself a hard decision <3

R.
Here's Audiovisjons review of the HD1:
High end nearfield test

He didn't buy a pair in the end though!
Old 9th December 2015
  #3088
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Dpro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLAvenir View Post
Be interesting to hear the op compare what has been tested so far with the latest sonodyne and se eggs? I bet that would be very interesting indeed.
I compared the previous version of Sonodyne's with the Eggs. Picked the Eggs. Fast forward I am now using Amphion One18's. Eggs have left the building. I honestly feel if you are considering Sonondynes or Eggs you should be looking at Amphions. IMO

Seriously there are monitor price points. I find that certain monitors perform well in their price range. An example would be on the low end JBL LSR305/308 line. Really hard to beat in the under $500 range.

Though this is high end and I feel the low end of high end comes in around $1500 and up. At that point a few brands start to stand out in a major way Amphion coming in with the One15 at 2k. Of course with Amp it will round out at 3k. Though you do not have to buy or use their amp.

The Eggs are now 3k monitors as well. Eggs and Sonodyne's are not bad monitors. Yet I know feel Amphions perform at a whole different level and are truly high end.
So much so they get compared in league with monitors that neither the Sonodyne's or the Eggs rise to in my opinion.

Yet in the end it's your ears and what you hear that is the final decision. I hope this helps.

Yikes I just realized you asked this question back in October lol!
Old 10th December 2015
  #3089
Gear Maniac
 
flipnaut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
For that money I would would at least be checking out the only-recently-shipping JBL LSR 705 plus one or two subs. The speakers themselves sell for $687 each but require a hefty amplifier (250wpc recommended). I would be inclined to try a Crown XLS drivecore series amplifier with their variable high pass/low pass/ bandpass feature like the XLS 2002, and a couple (or at least one) of the subs that are being sold with them, the sub 260 (12" 300w, $600). That should give you a distinct improvement. You could buy the pair of 705s first (with the Crown amp) for $1833, then save for the sub(s).
The 705s alone with that amp would be certain to blow the doors off the KH120s for not much more money and would be more 'sub-ready' than the KH120s.

Here's an enthusiastic thread on the subject:
JBL 705i/708i (7 Series Master Reference Monitors) & 725G/728G (subwoofers): Jan 2015 - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

What i should find is a monitor which represents a lot of low frequencies. I am a Bassplayer and the result is, when i mix music, that i always want to put more bass into the mix so that the bass notes are hearable. I like it warm. And then i mix often in the higher mids and in the highs wrong it weems... So perhaps that could mean to get a 8" instead of a 6" perhaps....? What do you think?

What is on my list:
Amphion One 18
Amphion One 15
KS Digital D 606
KS Digital D 80
Used KH 310

Budget is around 2.000 € but i could go up to 3.000 € when it is neccessary. The room curve with REW is in a 8db range down to 40Hz btw. ... so i have no really big bass problems here
Old 10th December 2015
  #3090
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipnaut View Post
What i should find is a monitor which represents a lot of low frequencies. I am a Bassplayer and the result is, when i mix music, that i always want to put more bass into the mix so that the bass notes are hearable. I like it warm. And then i mix often in the higher mids and in the highs wrong it weems... So perhaps that could mean to get a 8" instead of a 6" perhaps....? What do you think?

What is on my list:


KS Digital D 606
KS Digital D 80
Used

Budget is around 2.000 € but i could go up to 3.000 € when it is neccessary. The room curve with REW is in a 8db range down to 40Hz btw. ... so i have no really big bass problems here
for real bass, you need at minimum a 6.5 inch woofer. forget the one15.

I think that the quested v2108 is also to be considered. The user Yagya (which is a amazing musician as well) use amphion and quested v2108. he specifically mentionned the bass quality of v2108.

Theres too little information about KS digital monitors.
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