The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
High end nearfield test
Old 21st July 2015
  #3001
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRESH_STUDIO View Post
If you think it's some alchemy, take a look over PMC AML speaker. They used Nomex 6 inch LF driver and its goes down to 33 hz at - 3 db.
Where do they state "-3dB"?
I can only find "Usable Frequency Response" and that can mean anything. -10dB is also usable.
PMC's also rely on a transmission line, that can boost the low end output significantly, but at the cost of group delay.

So even though I doubt the PMC can deliver clean usable output at 33Hz, it is at least possible.

The Audiofilia concept (mechanical oscillation to generate a “hybrid waveguide” of pneumatic nature) is pure pseudoscientific BS.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3002
Here for the gear
 

Hopefully the image link below works, posted from my phone.

The image is from the frequency sweep generated by my Velodyne subwoofer, playing through my Digidesign RM2's with the sub on mute.

The RM2's were made by PMC and are roughly the same size cabinet as the AML2.
You can see a peak at about 40hz, then they are down about 6db at 33hz, so I guess that's classed as useable frequency response.

https://flic.kr/p/e8xuWx
Old 21st July 2015
  #3003
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by got_degree View Post
Where do they state "-3dB"?
I can only find "Usable Frequency Response" and that can mean anything. -10dB is also usable.
PMC's also rely on a transmission line, that can boost the low end output significantly, but at the cost of group delay.

So even though I doubt the PMC can deliver clean usable output at 33Hz, it is at least possible.

The Audiofilia concept (mechanical oscillation to generate a “hybrid waveguide” of pneumatic nature) is pure pseudoscientific BS.
Looks like PMC AML2 is -10dB at 33Hz as you suspected:
http://resolution.nodecube.net/produ...PMC%20AML2.pdf
Old 21st July 2015
  #3004
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSPL View Post
Hopefully the image link below works, posted from my phone.

The image is from the frequency sweep generated by my Velodyne subwoofer, playing through my Digidesign RM2's with the sub on mute.

The RM2's were made by PMC and are roughly the same size cabinet as the AML2.
You can see a peak at about 40hz, then they are down about 6db at 33hz, so I guess that's classed as useable frequency response.

https://flic.kr/p/e8xuWx
1. -6dB (or whatever) at 40Hz or 33Hz is a BIG difference.
2. low resolution in-room measurements are pretty useless in this case, that's why speaker manufacturers measure their products in anechoic chambers.

I can produce a graph with a 40Hz peaks similar to the curve you've posted with NS10s in the right room and the right spot. Still doen't mean NS10s deliver usable output at 40Hz.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3005
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by got_degree View Post
Where do they state "-3dB"?
I can only find "Usable Frequency Response" and that can mean anything. -10dB is also usable.
PMC's also rely on a transmission line, that can boost the low end output significantly, but at the cost of group delay.

So even though I doubt the PMC can deliver clean usable output at 33Hz, it is at least possible.

The Audiofilia concept (mechanical oscillation to generate a “hybrid waveguide” of pneumatic nature) is pure pseudoscientific BS.
Yes , you're right. Description on PMC's page was my mistake. By "usable" in a professional range It should mean that the speakers have to reproducing a very few decibels of tolerance. BTW, If it's written -10 at 33hz / i guess measured in anechoic chamber/, it's not impossible to reach 33 hz at -3 db negative with support from an acoustic interactions.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3006
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRESH_STUDIO View Post
it's not impossible to reach 33 hz at -3 db negative with support from an acoustic interactions.
I'd rather have 33Hz @ -10dB, than 33Hz @ -3dB and 2s decay-time.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3007
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by got_degree View Post
1. -6dB (or whatever) at 40Hz or 33Hz is a BIG difference.
2. low resolution in-room measurements are pretty useless in this case, that's why speaker manufacturers measure their products in anechoic chambers.

I can produce a graph with a 40Hz peaks similar to the curve you've posted with NS10s in the right room and the right spot. Still doen't mean NS10s deliver usable output at 40Hz.
Well I'm getting useful output at 33hz as seen, so I'm sorry if it's not high enough resolution testing for you.
For what it's worth I get flat to 15hz with the Velodyne sub :D
Old 21st July 2015
  #3008
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSPL View Post
Well I'm getting useful output at 33hz as seen, so I'm sorry if it's not high enough resolution testing for you.
For what it's worth I get flat to 15hz with the Velodyne sub :D
That graph doesn't look flat to me at all. Those peaks indicate that the decay times might be a bit longer than what is considered studio standard.

But if you find it usable, then that's all that matters.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3009
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by got_degree View Post
That graph doesn't look flat to me at all. Those peaks indicate that the decay times might be a bit longer than what is considered studio standard.

But if you find it usable, then that's all that matters.
Yes, I guess 'flat' was the wrong term, more like I'm getting the same spl down to 15hz.
This is just a home audio setup in an untreated room though.
Old 21st July 2015
  #3010
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSPL View Post
This is just a home audio setup in an untreated room though.
Ok, for music enjoyment this is perfectly usable of course.

I was thinking in the context of mixing/mastering, where peaks and large decay-times can make judgements very difficult.
Old 25th July 2015
  #3011
Gear Nut
Please, bring the Audiofilia and the JBL LSR705i to the test
Old 25th July 2015
  #3012
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Prince View Post
Please, bring the Audiofilia and the JBL LSR705i to the test
Id love to see in the test

harbeth 30.1
jbl lsr708i
genelec 8351

Last edited by murphythecat87; 25th July 2015 at 08:10 PM..
Old 25th July 2015
  #3013
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
Id love to see in the test

harbeth 30.1
+1000
Old 25th July 2015
  #3014
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
+1000
Some people think that harbeth is seriously underrated in studios.

Ive heard the C7's and the SHL5, they are very special speakers. bit too colored for me and bass bit too loose, but the mids were very special.
the 30.1 is their ''studio'' offering so should be less hifi...
I finally kept the one18 btw

@ Audio visjon, have you decided to end the test& if not, I think harbeth should be in this test and could very well surprise us all!
Old 25th July 2015
  #3015
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
Some people think that harbeth is seriously underrated in studios.

Ive heard the C7's and the SHL5, they are very special speakers. bit too colored for me and bass bit too loose, but the mids were very special.
the 30.1 is their ''studio'' offering so should be less hifi...
I finally kept the one18 btw

@ Audio visjon, have you decided to end the test& if not, I think harbeth should be in this test and could very well surprise us all!
I heard the C7 and 30.1 next to each other a while back and the 30.1 slay the C7. Make the C7 sound congested. The 30.1 is a totally gorgeous speaker! Still could really fancy some although superbly happy with my Amphions.
Old 25th July 2015
  #3016
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I heard the C7 and 30.1 next to each other a while back and the 30.1 slay the C7. Make the C7 sound congested. The 30.1 is a totally gorgeous speaker! Still could really fancy some although superbly happy with my Amphions.
yeah, I felt the one18 was much more neutral, better imaging, better bass compared to C7. while I liked a lot the midrange, bigger sound of the C7, I much prefer the one18.

I think in the Harbeth family, the 30.1 should be the one included in this test. Id love to have audiovisjion include the 30.1 to the test.

Why have you settled on amphion over the Harbeth 30.1, Karloff?
Old 25th July 2015
  #3017
Speaking of Harbeth, the 'Super HL5 plus' is the latest sensation - and Alan Shaw is very excited about his newest M40.2, a complete re-think on the M40 and M40.1 based on the enthusiastic reception of the Super HL5 plus.
Old 25th July 2015
  #3018
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
yeah, I felt the one18 was much more neutral, better imaging, better bass compared to C7. while I liked a lot the midrange, bigger sound of the C7, I much prefer the one18.

I think in the Harbeth family, the 30.1 should be the one included in this test. Id love to have audiovisjion include the 30.1 to the test.

Why have you settled on amphion over the Harbeth 30.1, Karloff?
At the time I was inbetween the 30.1 and PSI A21's and went with the PSI. The went to ProAc100's and then to Amphions. I am ridiculously happy where I am, but the way I see it now is if I had gone with the 30.1 at the time I likely would still be there. And also ridiculously happy......
Old 25th July 2015
  #3019
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
Speaking of Harbeth, the 'Super HL5 plus' is the latest sensation - and Alan Shaw is very excited about his newest M40.2, a complete re-think on the M40 and M40.1 based on the enthusiastic reception of the Super HL5 plus.

Oddly enough, I prefered the C7 over the shl5 by quite a big margin.
the bass of the SHL5 was totally uncontrolled, the mids were too laid back and lacking in dynamism compared to the C7. Was very surprise by that, but the bass in particular was quite a mess.

for the nearfield test, the 40.1 is too big. I think the 30.1 is the one for audiovisjion to test.
Old 28th July 2015
  #3020
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post
I think in the Harbeth family, the 30.1 should be the one included in this test. Id love to have audiovisjion include the 30.1 to the test.
I have had the original Harbeth Monitor 30 Active version for quite a few years.

The "Radial" driver was developed specially for them as a university project.

Harbeth are in my top few of trustworthy monitors and I have a great respect for Alan Shaw.

But my Active Monitor 30s are now being replaced by the Geithain RL944K (at about x3 the price).
Old 28th July 2015
  #3021
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I have had the original Harbeth Monitor 30 Active version for quite a few years.

The "Radial" driver was developed specially for them as a university project.

Harbeth are in my top few of trustworthy monitors and I have a great respect for Alan Shaw.

But my Active Monitor 30s are now being replaced by the Geithain RL944K (at about x3 the price).
interesting!
the active version is imo not entirely comparable to the harbeth 30.1. the 30.1 uses a refined crossover and a different tweeter (a much more refined one) and is passive.
Old 28th July 2015
  #3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat87 View Post

Oddly enough, I prefered the C7 over the shl5 by quite a big margin.
the bass of the SHL5 was totally uncontrolled, the mids were too laid back and lacking in dynamism compared to the C7.
Which C7 is this - the KEF floorstander?
Old 28th July 2015
  #3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
Which C7 is this - the KEF floorstander?
Harbeth UK - High quality loudspeakers made in England
Old 29th July 2015
  #3024
Gear Head
 

Another vote for a harbeth 30.1. test, that would be very interesting, waiting for this for a long time...
Old 29th July 2015
  #3025
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabelton View Post
Another vote for a harbeth 30.1. test, that would be very interesting, waiting for this for a long time...
Agreed that the Harbeth Monitor 30.1 is worthy of inclusion.

Shame that it's passive only, though.
Old 29th July 2015
  #3026
Gear Head
 

Harbeth just released a powered 30.1, see their latest newsletter on their page.
Old 31st July 2015
  #3027
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabelton View Post
Harbeth just released a powered 30.1, see their latest newsletter on their page.
Powered or active?

I am on an extremely slow Wi-Fi at the moment - tethered to an iPhone on a very weak "Edge" connection, so I can't look straight away.

Ignore the above - I have just given Harbeth a ring - they are 'Powered'.

They also said that the 30.1 is much better than my original Monitor 30 - and those were good (which is why I chose them in the first place).

Last edited by John Willett; 31st July 2015 at 02:57 PM..
Old 31st July 2015
  #3028
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

30.1's are glorious.
Old 31st July 2015
  #3029
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

I do have a feeling that harbeth 30.1 could be very good...

Audiovisjion? if you still want to continue the test, the harbeth 30.1 should be high on your list!
Old 31st July 2015
  #3030
Lives for gear
 
murphythecat87's Avatar
 

I do have a feeling that harbeth 30.1 could be very good...

Audiovisjion? if you still want to continue the test, the harbeth 30.1 should be high on your list!
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump