The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
How do I get this drumsound? Dynamic Microphones
Old 7th September 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 

How do I get this drumsound?

I totalt love this vintage drum sound:

http://www.myspace.com/wolfmother

How do I mic he drums to get near this? How do I place the OH and so forth? High up? Low down aimed at hte toms? The recording sounds like it's a X/Y right?

Info:
I have a Ludwig Classic Birch set with a Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14 snare from the 70's and nice 2002 Paiste cymbals.
BUT () I only have a small totally dampened recording room and these mics:

Neumann TLM 103
Röde NTK
Oktava MK-319
Shure SM 57
Shure SM 58
Beyerdynamic M88TG
Beyerdynamic M201TG x 4
Studio Projects C4 x 2

I was also thinking of maybe borrowing 2 Sontronics Ribbon Sigma's to use instead of the Studio Projects C4's as OH's? Would that maybe be to much lacking of high-end frequencies?
Old 7th September 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

........Mr. Dave Sardy will know.......heh heh heh
Old 7th September 2006
  #3
Deleted User
Guest
How do your drums sound?

I have the Wolfmother disc, and it's freakin awesome!!! To me, it sounds like a kick drum without a resonant head, as well as single headed toms. This is mainly based off of the radio single, "Woman."

If your kit has lugs for bottom heads, don't just take the bottom head off, the lugs will rattle. Either remove the bottom hardware, or cut away the bottom head so the hoop of the head and some of the head is there, just to keep tension on the bottom rim so the hardware doesn't rattle. Same thing with the front head on the kick.

The snare sounds like it has a semi-loose batter head, and a really tight snare side head, as well as cranked snares.

The kick in quite a few places sounds damped quite a bit... and the head is really loose.

My vote for micing would be:
Beyerdynamic M88TG-Kick In
Oktava MK-319-Kick about 3' away (in a tunnel)
Shure SM 57-Snare Top
Shure SM 58-Snare Bottom
Beyerdynamic M201TG x 4-Toms and Hats
Neumann TLM 103-Ride cymbol if needed
Studio Projects C4 x 2-OH
Röde NTK-Room mic down the hall or something

Just get the drums to sound like this in the room, and that should get you close.

Then, whatever you're recording to... make a stereo group of all the drums -cymbols... compress it quite a bit with fast attack, and fast release. Add the cymbols over the top of this, and then compress the whole group with fast attack and medium release.

Just a thought.
Old 7th September 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

http://hothotheat.com/video.php


some videos of hot hot heat working with sardy....you might find something outheh
Old 7th September 2006
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
valver's Avatar
 

I'd say Thumper's reply was 100% on.

Also, if you use Remo pinstripe or Evans 2 ply hydraulic, oil filled heads
on the toms, superkick II on the kick and mix in more bottom snare,
you'll definitely be in that neighborhood.
Old 7th September 2006
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
How do your drums sound?

I have the Wolfmother disc, and it's freakin awesome!!! To me, it sounds like a kick drum without a resonant head, as well as single headed toms. This is mainly based off of the radio single, "Woman."

If your kit has lugs for bottom heads, don't just take the bottom head off, the lugs will rattle. Either remove the bottom hardware, or cut away the bottom head so the hoop of the head and some of the head is there, just to keep tension on the bottom rim so the hardware doesn't rattle. Same thing with the front head on the kick.

The snare sounds like it has a semi-loose batter head, and a really tight snare side head, as well as cranked snares.

The kick in quite a few places sounds damped quite a bit... and the head is really loose.

My vote for micing would be:
Beyerdynamic M88TG-Kick In
Oktava MK-319-Kick about 3' away (in a tunnel)
Shure SM 57-Snare Top
Shure SM 58-Snare Bottom
Beyerdynamic M201TG x 4-Toms and Hats
Neumann TLM 103-Ride cymbol if needed
Studio Projects C4 x 2-OH
Röde NTK-Room mic down the hall or something

Just get the drums to sound like this in the room, and that should get you close.

Then, whatever you're recording to... make a stereo group of all the drums -cymbols... compress it quite a bit with fast attack, and fast release. Add the cymbols over the top of this, and then compress the whole group with fast attack and medium release.

Just a thought.
Great help! I'm not sure if I dare to try that tom trick though!?
Any ideas for the OH's? There is almost no cymbals, they are very low in volume..I want a lot of room and snare in the OH's but almost no cymbals..how do I pull that of?
Old 7th September 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
valver's Avatar
 

When you take the rims off the bottoms, just put a small square of
gaffer tape on the lug / insert, and that should cancel any rattle.
Old 7th September 2006
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valver View Post
When you take the rims off the bottoms, just put a small square of
gaffer tape on the lug / insert, and that should cancel any rattle.
Great trick!! Thanks !

So you guys would not use a m201Tg on the snare? I totally started to use that a my first choice snare mic. Have you guys tried it?
Now I have Remo Ambassador snare heads. Any other ideas?

The Kick mic (close) Should I put it really close to the drumhead where the club hits? Like 1 dm away from it or such? And the build a little tunnel of blankets and put a condenser like 1.5 meters away?

The room is only 4 x 3.5 meters in size..So I wont be able to put the Rode NTK in a hall or such...Ideas? Maybe one mic high up (2.5 meters up 2 meters in front of the kit or such for room?)

You guys rock !
Old 7th September 2006
  #9
Deleted User
Guest
The tom trick is easy.

Use old heads if you have to...

You know what a hole in a kick drum head looks like? Yeah, do that to the resonant heads on the toms, except make the hole ALMOST the size of the drum. Leave 1/2" to 1" of head on there.

You're doing nothing to the drum itself at all.

Valver, your tape trick works most of the time, but some lugs (especially the older style, where the lug goes the full height of the shell) rattle against themselves. It's a trial and trial thing. Either way will work fine.

As far as overheads/room mics go, I can't tell you what to do, without being in your room, and listening!!! No one can!!!

One trick you might want to do, is use cardioid mics, and have them parallel with the floor, aiming at the opposite wall. The back of the mic is pointed right above your kit, at cymbol height. Equilateral triangle, with you and the 2 mics as the points. The back of the mics are pointed at you. So in reality, the back of the mics are facing the cymbols, and the front is aimed at walls in your room.

That might give you a cool, open spacey sound in a rather dead room... Tip: 85% of the time, these mics will need to have their polarity flipped.

Another thing you might want to try:

Throw a PA speaker or something in your trakcing room, and feed 100% wet reverb to it. Build a verb mix going to it from a small mixer of some sort or an aux send from your daw. play around with it and get a good mix going on, as well as different verbs/levels/delays. It might make your room sound bigger, and less dead.

Or, it might just make it sound like ass.

Backhand... where are you located?
Old 7th September 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
mig27's Avatar
This doesn't really help - but I just bought the album.
Great stuff in deed !!!

Michael
Old 7th September 2006
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
The tom trick is easy.

Use old heads if you have to...

You know what a hole in a kick drum head looks like? Yeah, do that to the resonant heads on the toms, except make the hole ALMOST the size of the drum. Leave 1/2" to 1" of head on there.

You're doing nothing to the drum itself at all.

Valver, your tape trick works most of the time, but some lugs (especially the older style, where the lug goes the full height of the shell) rattle against themselves. It's a trial and trial thing. Either way will work fine.

As far as overheads/room mics go, I can't tell you what to do, without being in your room, and listening!!! No one can!!!

One trick you might want to do, is use cardioid mics, and have them parallel with the floor, aiming at the opposite wall. The back of the mic is pointed right above your kit, at cymbol height. Equilateral triangle, with you and the 2 mics as the points. The back of the mics are pointed at you. So in reality, the back of the mics are facing the cymbols, and the front is aimed at walls in your room.

That might give you a cool, open spacey sound in a rather dead room... Tip: 85% of the time, these mics will need to have their polarity flipped.

Another thing you might want to try:

Throw a PA speaker or something in your trakcing room, and feed 100% wet reverb to it. Build a verb mix going to it from a small mixer of some sort or an aux send from your daw. play around with it and get a good mix going on, as well as different verbs/levels/delays. It might make your room sound bigger, and less dead.

Or, it might just make it sound like ass.

Backhand... where are you located?
That OH trick sounds really interesting. So you want the mics to be pointed to right and left almost aiming at the corners or do you mean strainght at the wall in paralell angle to each other?
Sounds cool.

Hehe..I'm located in Stockholm/Sweden.
This is my studio:
www.studio24.nu

Listen to this soundclip for my generall drum sound (this is not the same kit though, that's the old Tama Rockstar Pro, only the same snare left of the kit):
http://www.studio24.nu/ljud/You%27re_me_star_here.mp3

There you have the room aswell
Old 7th September 2006
  #12
Gear Addict
 
emeline-rec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
How do your drums sound?

Then, whatever you're recording to... make a stereo group of all the drums -cymbols... compress it quite a bit with fast attack, and fast release. Add the cymbols over the top of this, and then compress the whole group with fast attack and medium release.

Just a thought.
hey, thumper i was interested by your post and have a question.

how fast attack time are we talking?
wont a too quick attack ruin the punch of the drums?
Old 7th September 2006
  #13
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

listening to love train, sounds like a distressor on the snare.

sounds like a pretty even mix of sabbath and zep. nothing new, but it's well done and entertaining. remember when that's all we asked of music?


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 7th September 2006
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
jonboyrock's Avatar
 

The drums on the album for the most part are a 73 Gretsch, 22, 12, 13, 16 and a 14 Dunnett snare.
All had coated heads, ambassadors if I remember correctly.
A cigarette packet full of pins, nails etc was used for dampening the snare.
All tuning and repairs were done by Drum Doctors.

Not sure on cymbals. 14 hats, 17 and 19 crashes and 21 ride.

That kit is a pretty big part of the sound, and no one can get it to sound like Myles can when he plays.

Still uses the same kit live though different heads are used, Coated Emperors and an Emperor X on snare. Cymbals are now all Zyldjian, 14, 19, 21 and 21.

There were limited photos from the session, but there seemed to be U87s or 67s on toms, a 149 or similar as mono OH. Hmm, just speculating, sorry.

JBR
Old 7th September 2006
  #15
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeline-rec View Post
hey, thumper i was interested by your post and have a question.

how fast attack time are we talking?
wont a too quick attack ruin the punch of the drums?
Pretty fast...

What you're trying to accomplish, is to bring the peak of the transient down to a resonable level, so you also hear the rest of the transient... if that makes any sense... The longer the transient, the more punch... See what I'm getting at?

I'd say about 20-30 ms. Ratio is also important. 4:1 on 1176s work well.

A lot of people are going to call me ********, and say that I don't know what I'm talking about. They're absolutly right!!! I just do what works for me, and my clients.

Try it out, and see if you like the results.
Old 7th September 2006
  #16
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

where's 20-30 ms on a 1176?
Old 7th September 2006
  #17
Deleted User
Guest
I dunno... that was just a guess on ms. I usually use an 1176 with the attack time around the 1-2 oclock position i guess. I usually just twist **** till it sounds good.
Old 7th September 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonboyrock View Post
The drums on the album for the most part are a 73 Gretsch, 22, 12, 13, 16 and a 14 Dunnett snare.
All had coated heads, ambassadors if I remember correctly.
A cigarette packet full of pins, nails etc was used for dampening the snare.
All tuning and repairs were done by Drum Doctors.

Not sure on cymbals. 14 hats, 17 and 19 crashes and 21 ride.

That kit is a pretty big part of the sound, and no one can get it to sound like Myles can when he plays.

Still uses the same kit live though different heads are used, Coated Emperors and an Emperor X on snare. Cymbals are now all Zyldjian, 14, 19, 21 and 21.

There were limited photos from the session, but there seemed to be U87s or 67s on toms, a 149 or similar as mono OH. Hmm, just speculating, sorry.

JBR



thats some pretty cool info you are sharing here.......


So a cigarette packet was attached to the snare head?


Where did you see pics of the session?




greetings


alex
Old 7th September 2006
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
jonboyrock's Avatar
 

The photos were just the early promo photos.

I know all this because I am the FOH mixer for Wolfmother, and by default the drum tech aswell!

Yeah the cigarette packet was just gaffed to the rim, not the head, so as to bounce upon initial strike and then land and deaden the head. Quite an old trick actually.

I tried to get more info out of the band but they aren't very studio tech savvy so.....
Old 7th September 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
sounds like a pretty even mix of sabbath and zep. nothing new, but it's well done and entertaining. remember when that's all we asked of music?
Nothing new, I agree. But damn refreshing to hear a rock & roll band on the radio again

My only beef is that I can't get past the lyrics for their hit "Woman". At least Plant had the decency to steal some old southern blues vernacular when he didn't feel like writing lyricsheh
Old 7th September 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonboyrock View Post
The photos were just the early promo photos.

I know all this because I am the FOH mixer for Wolfmother, and by default the drum tech aswell!

Yeah the cigarette packet was just gaffed to the rim, not the head, so as to bounce upon initial strike and then land and deaden the head. Quite an old trick actually.

I tried to get more info out of the band but they aren't very studio tech savvy so.....


this is amazing....i have never heard or seen the "pack of smokes trick" in action anywhere..........well, you live and you learn.


I am always really curios about anyhing Dave Sardy produces because of the way he makes the drums sound on the records he produces..........raw, powerfull yet very nice sounding.......especially those kicks and snares......
Old 7th September 2006
  #22
Gear Addict
 
emeline-rec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Pretty fast...

What you're trying to accomplish, is to bring the peak of the transient down to a resonable level, so you also hear the rest of the transient... if that makes any sense... The longer the transient, the more punch... See what I'm getting at?

I'd say about 20-30 ms. Ratio is also important. 4:1 on 1176s work well.

A lot of people are going to call me ********, and say that I don't know what I'm talking about. They're absolutly right!!! I just do what works for me, and my clients.

Try it out, and see if you like the results.
thanks for that i usually go around the 15ms, perhaps ill try a little longer next time.

i never seem to use attack times longer that 15ms, is that bad???
Old 8th September 2006
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

Then, whatever you're recording to... make a stereo group of all the drums -cymbols... compress it quite a bit with fast attack, and fast release. Add the cymbols over the top of this, and then compress the whole group with fast attack and medium release.

Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

am i understanding you right mr. thumper?


2 groups


1st Group drums only...

2nd Group Cymbals only ... ?
Old 8th September 2006
  #24
Deleted User
Guest
Close...

All drum shells (close miced only) group. Compress. Then add cymbols/room mics (room mics usually should be squashed to hell by this point anyway) and then compress again.

Once again, this is just what I do. Try it out. If you don't like it, don't do it.
Old 8th September 2006
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

in which studio in chicago do you work at?
Old 8th September 2006
  #26
Lives for gear
so you guys can listen to a finished track and tell (with some certainty, apparently) the actual MICS used as well as which compressor...

that's pretty impressive
Old 8th September 2006
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

..no...


just trying to figure out how one could achieve similar sounding results.......i guess.
Old 8th September 2006
  #28
Deleted User
Guest
In Chicago, I prefer to work out of CRC. I mostly work in other cities though.
Old 8th September 2006
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Hey Alexi.

Not sure where I heard this..... a mult of the snare may well be bussed out to an Ibanez Tubescreamer and mixed back in with the dry signal. I'll try and track down the source of this info if I get a chance...
Old 8th September 2006
  #30
Lives for gear
 
dokushoka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexi View Post
this is amazing....i have never heard or seen the "pack of smokes trick" in action anywhere..........well, you live and you learn.
Ringo Star, on like every Beatles track.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
SLy_drums / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
8
Jbassist / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
1
max cooper / So Much Gear, So Little Time
33
rdraudio / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
5down1up / High End
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump