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What Would The PSI A17-M Give Me That The Neumann KH120 Won't? Studio Monitors
Old 5th March 2013
  #1
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What Would The PSI A17-M Give Me That The Neumann KH120 Won't?

Considering the PSIs are twice the cost, what would the benefit be? A bit more low end? I'm sure both are great speakers. Anyone heard both?
Old 5th March 2013
  #2
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Dunno, 4 colour rather than ol boring monochrome shipping boxes?
Old 5th March 2013
  #3
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Gee, I guess that answered my question........
Old 5th March 2013
  #4
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I haven't heard the KH120 so can't comment on those. What I would say is that PSI is definitely worth the money and then some, absolutely superb monitors across the whole range.
Old 5th March 2013
  #5
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I can't answer your question either, but I find it interesting how the A17 is twice the cost of KH 120, but the A21 is priced about the same as the KH 310.
Old 6th March 2013
  #6
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The A17M will deliver possibly the smoothest top end response you've ever heard, and an analytical detail and separation of elements that is mind blowing. Revealing as all get out...nothing touches them in these regards nowhere close to this price range.

If you seek a true nearfield speaker for these qualities, only one of those will deliver that...the PSI A17M.

War
Old 6th March 2013
  #7
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Except for their price, I can't really find anything negative about PSI monitors. They're just good all-rounders with a remarkable crossover and phase coherence.

One thing that PSI's do better than their closest competitors, is their impulse response. Let me show you: I've attached a waveform image showing my PSI A215-M (top) against monitors by Geithain and Pelonis, respectively. Recorded at 0.1m in front of the tweeter using an Earthworks mic.

EDIT: I have not been able to find an image of the impulse response for the KH120, but Neumann have tucked away a nice-looking impulse response for their legacy 0500C model. But it's hard to say if that performance would apply for the KH120 model.

What Would The PSI A17-M Give Me That The Neumann KH120 Won't?-impulse-215-922-42.jpg


Last edited by Hjelmevold; 6th March 2013 at 02:41 PM.. Reason: added Neumann impulse response
Old 6th March 2013
  #8
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Thanks for everyone's replies.
I'm also looking closely at the ATC passive which is the same price as the PSI (I've got a good amp). It's also brutally honest in it's presentation. The big difference is the sealed cab with the ATC. As far as the KH120, I'm just curious if the PSI could really be twice as good at double the cost, and whether or not the difference in price is really worth it. I know the best way is to buy both and try them, but I thought maybe someone around here might have had a chance to compare them and give an honest opinion.
Old 6th March 2013
  #9
I compared the A17-M to the KH120 a few weeks ago. IMHO, the PSI are a whole different league. The Neumann had way to much low end, very imprecise, and the highs sounded harsh compared to the PSI. The friend who owns the KH120 understood why his mixes often sound a little bit mud... The PSI are so detailed, analytical, extremely accurate, really impressive.
Old 8th March 2013
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3singes View Post
I compared the A17-M to the KH120 a few weeks ago. IMHO, the PSI are a whole different league. The Neumann had way to much low end, very imprecise, and the highs sounded harsh compared to the PSI. The friend who owns the KH120 understood why his mixes often sound a little bit mud... The PSI are so detailed, analytical, extremely accurate, really impressive.
That is a spot on description of their differences in context.

War
Old 9th March 2013
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
That is a spot on description of their differences in context.

War
+1 Totally different league. Warren's first post sums up what the PSI give you in a nutshell.
Old 8th April 2013
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by spenceroo View Post
Considering the PSIs are twice the cost, what would the benefit be? A bit more low end? I'm sure both are great speakers. Anyone heard both?
Did you find more info or try some PSIs? I currently own a pair of KH120s and they are great monitors, musical and easy to listen to. Sometimes I want something more brutally honest though. Had A7s for a while but couldn't get the ribbon tweeter and woofer to work for me (they sounded isolated from each other).

The PSIs are expensive for us small time guys. Also looking at the Sonodynes...anyone know how they stack up against the KH120s?
Old 9th April 2013
  #13
The great thing about the KH120s, and the reason I bought them, is that (like NS10Ms) mixes made on them translate well everywhere... but the KH120s do not have the ear fatigue causing high mid overkill that many other bookshelf nearfields (like the NS10Ms) are known for.

If you're buying any monitor to make everything sound wonderful, you're missing the point. As engineers and producers, we need to hear the good bad and the ugly.
Old 9th April 2013
  #14
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I had KH 120 here recently ... It is very small and similarly like KH 0300 brings a kind of slightly artificial or "chemical" sound to my ears ... A man brought his own KH 120 and wanted to hear almost similarly priced Quested S7R. After comparing these two , he immediately put KH in the classifieds - the difference in the organic quality of sound was too big.

Now Quested S7R vs PSI A17 - that's an interesting difference (I have both here). Both are in the same sound quality level but sound different. PSI sounds more "vivid" as if, with wonderfully clean sound and substantial bass. Quested have more pronounced and very organic mids, slightly bigger size and give you slightly less "polished" view into music (in a good sense)

Regarding the original question - PSI A17 will give you much higher level of overall monitoring quality in all aspects comparing to KH120
Old 9th April 2013
  #15
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Plus 1 on KH120's being chemical and rather less than natural sounding. Never did understand the hype they get on here.

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Old 9th April 2013
  #16
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At their price and size the 120s are a very, very good speaker. Sure you will find better, probably at another price point.
It's analagous to saying a VW golf isn't as good as a BMW 3 series, they are both great vehicles within their respected price points but if you want the best , pay for it.
Cheers, Ross

Last edited by reddirt; 9th April 2013 at 01:18 PM.. Reason: added a bit
Old 9th April 2013
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddirt View Post
At their price and size the 120s are a very, very good speaker. Sure you will find better, probably at another price point.
It's analagous to saying a VW golf isn't as good as a BMW 3 series, they are both great vehicles within their respected price points but if you want the best , pay for it.
Cheers, Ross
How is a Golf not as good as a BMW 3 series?
Old 9th April 2013
  #18
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So these PSI's are good, huh? Anything else to consider in that pricerange?
Old 9th April 2013
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post
One thing that PSI's do better than their closest competitors, is their impulse response. Let me show you: I've attached a waveform image showing my PSI A215-M (top) against monitors by Geithain and Pelonis, respectively. Recorded at 0.1m in front of the tweeter using an Earthworks mic.
could you detail how you measure it?
Old 9th April 2013
  #20
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjelmevold View Post

One thing that PSI's do better than their closest competitors, is their impulse response. Let me show you: I've attached a waveform image showing my PSI A215-M (top) against monitors by Geithain and Pelonis, respectively. Recorded at 0.1m in front of the tweeter using an Earthworks mic.
How do you perceive the bass in A215, do you feel it is straightforward or slightly "boomed" ?
Old 9th April 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
could you detail how you measure [impulse response]?
Here's what I did to get the recorded waveforms in post #7:

I created a sound file containing nothing but an impulse by opening up Audacity, Generate > Silence (1 second), zooming in until i could see each sample, switched to the Draw Tool and drew an impulse (1 sample at maximum amplitude). Saved as .wav and imported into my DAW, where I record enabled a new audio track. Then i placed an SDC omni mic (Earthworks M30) on a stand right in front of the tweeter, distance 10cm, and turned that single speaker on. Finally, I started looped playback, set the input level and hit record.

Another thing that could be measured this way is frequency response and phase response, by recording a playback of generated white noise and a slow square wave chirp. However, multi-way speakers have serious modulation distortion between different drivers when recorded up close, so such results should be taken with a grain of salt.
Old 9th April 2013
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
How do you perceive the bass in A215, do you feel it is straightforward or slightly "boomed" ?
Straightforward. The PSIs have good directionality in the bass, but only in the width dimension and not very much depth. Not like Geithain 922K, where I can sense the bass moving closer/farther away from me with every change in intensity. But the lack of depth is made up for with good definition and separation in the width axis, a little like the bass in the ATC SCM25A, but the PSIs make it a bit harder to identify mass and texture. Perhaps a bit sterile, but easy to learn and easy to work with.

Last edited by Hjelmevold; 9th April 2013 at 04:04 PM.. Reason: sorting out the adjectives
Old 9th April 2013
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
The A17M will deliver possibly the smoothest top end response you've ever heard, and an analytical detail and separation of elements that is mind blowing. Revealing as all get out...nothing touches them in these regards nowhere close to this price range.

If you seek a true nearfield speaker for these qualities, only one of those will deliver that...the PSI A17M.
Have you tried the Sonics Animas/Spiral Groove Studio Ones?
Old 10th April 2013
  #24
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I ended up getting the ATC passive 20s. I already had a good set of Hypex based mono block amps, and they drive the ATCs effortlessly. From top to bottom, they seem perfectly balanced when listening to well mixed albums. I was a bit hesitant about buying them initially after reading comments on the lack of bass, but I'm not hearing that at all. The bass is certainly not over-emphasized, and being a sealed cab it shouldn't be, but if there's good bass present in a mix, you'll hear it. These speakers are great at giving you a true representation of a mix.
Old 11th April 2013
  #25
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Warren - or anyone - how do they compare to the Focal Solos?
Old 11th April 2013
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Warren - or anyone - how do they compare to the Focal Solos?
The PSI? They spank them.
Old 14th August 2014
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
The A17M will deliver possibly the smoothest top end response you've ever heard, and an analytical detail and separation of elements that is mind blowing. Revealing as all get out...nothing touches them in these regards nowhere close to this price range.

If you seek a true nearfield speaker for these qualities, only one of those will deliver that...the PSI A17M.

War
So I guess for 4K+ us that is easily high end while the KH120's are mid range. Probably the limit Id go for in price since most music I listen to isn't audiophile grade.

thanks for suggestion.
Old 7th November 2014
  #28
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I've been interested finding out the PSI A17-M's compare to the KH120a's. I've had the KH120a's for a couple of years and am extremely impressed with their level of performance for their price and size.

I would love to hear the PSI A17's next to the Neumanns sometime
Old 8th November 2014
  #29
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I'm also interested to know how the PMC Twotwo 5's and 6's compare to the KH120a's and PSI A17-M?
Old 8th November 2014
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
I'm also interested to know how the PMC Twotwo 5's and 6's compare to the KH120a's and PSI A17-M?
Get some in to find out for yourself?
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