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(vintage) 1073 worth it?
Old 20th January 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 

(vintage) 1073 worth it?

Is a vintage 1073 worth the cost? I have about 5k to spend on some new gear and I usually like to get the most bang for my buck but in this situation is there really no worthy substitute if you have the money to go with an original? My alternative would be a 1073 clone (BAE) and maybe a nice compressor (maybe a skibbe red stripe) or a new converter.
Old 20th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
No...the new clones are very worthy substitutes...Heritage or BAE. Also the Aurora. While they might be a good investment, there's a lot of negatives to vintage equipment too. I use a Heritage 1073/500 and a Helios Type 69 with a Retro Sta-Level and I feel like I'm absolutely set. The Heritage sounds extremely, extremely close to the vintage Neves I've rented a ton...plus, resell on those clones is fantastic. I just feel like there's muuuch better bang for your buck going that direction. Great new Pre and fantastic new compressor for the price of one vintage piece. Or putting that money into a new mic or ADDA. The whole chain together matters, otherwise, you can get bottle necked...ie, a vintage Neve with cheap conversion.
Old 20th January 2013
  #3
Gear Addict
Ive worked with the real deal and the BAE's, I would buy the BAE's. You can get 2 for the same price and they are brand new VS 40 years old and will most likely need maintenance right away. Even if your in a position of money is no object, there is not a big enough difference to really need an Neve 1073 unless your one of those guys who thinks gear gets you work..
Old 20th January 2013
  #4
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madgansound's Avatar
 

'bang' for your buck' is not a phrase you should associate with buying vintage Neve. If you want a vintage module you buy a vintage module, but that's what you're paying for - a vintage module. If you want a great and often better sounding alternative for less money - there are many out there like John mentioned.
Old 20th January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
I think Tony Belmont mentioned this a while back...we are all a little too Pre obsessed...there are sooo many ways to color a sound. As long as you have a quality component, that is amplifying the sound of a great mic, you're golden. I would put my big money into the mic and AD. That being said, I use a $1200 Miktek CV4 and am happy as a little schoolgirl. Doesn't help the gas, though.
Old 20th January 2013
  #6
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arjunchawda's Avatar
 

Absolutely love my BAE 1073 DMP
Old 21st January 2013
  #7
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gear is cool's Avatar
If you do decide on a vintage unit and need a rack to put it in PM me. I have a nice boutique audio one sitting around here that I'd sell.

Happy pre amp deciding
Old 21st January 2013
  #8
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Marcocet's Avatar
No clones that I've used sound exactly like a vintage Neve, but you've got to ask yourself the question how exact does it need to be?

Any quality preamp that you buy used and get a good deal on should make you plenty happy. I own a bunch of vintage Neves, but the reasons are A) I run a commercial facility and the cache of the name helps bring in work, B) I flip a lot of gear, so resale value is very important to me and C) I got a ridiculously good deal on them. Without even one of those factors I probably would have gone with something else.
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

if you can get a good deal wait for it go for the vintage ones, they will never lose their value which unlike what clone buyers would like to think not so sure about the clones. in the end its all about the transformers and what colour they add to your signals. if you thing you need the neve sound for your workflow right now go for a quality clone with the transformer of your choice. if i hadnt already a vintage rack full of roundcans for a steal i would get a bae and try to find vintage transformers for it. in the end its worth it if clients are willing to pay for it. if your clients or producers never heard of neve, any pre will do
Old 21st January 2013
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albini View Post
Is a vintage 1073 worth the cost? I have about 5k to spend on some new gear and I usually like to get the most bang for my buck but in this situation is there really no worthy substitute if you have the money to go with an original? My alternative would be a 1073 clone (BAE) and maybe a nice compressor (maybe a skibbe red stripe) or a new converter.
A Neve 1073? No...

A Neve 31102- absofreakinlutely!

A 31102 is EXACTLY the same as a 1084 which is EXACTLY the same as a 1073 but with more EQ points.

BUT the 31102 needs a line modification to accept line level signals as the switching was done in the console.

You can get a 31102 for 3K. We bought a pair for 6K WITH the line mods done inside the modules at the end of last year and they drop right into any 1073 rack. They work 100% like a 1084- which again, is better than a 1073...

Its pathetic how "1073" has become a magic number when it gets its ass kicked for 2K less...

Though beware, some 31102s have Belcere input transformers though Ive never seen one like that- all the ones Ive seen have St. Ives for the pre and mairinair for the line input mod.

I had BAE 1073s- great pres. But I like my 31102s more regardless of the better EQ.

Though they did need servicing and everyone is right that old Neves tend to have fussy pots and switches- even AFTER servicing as replacing those often gets too expensive.

If you don't have a good tech, or don't want to deal with fussy pots and switches- the clones would be the way to go.

BUT no matter what anyone says- they don't sound exactly like the originals.

Now cue the posts " But one Neve next to another sounds different too..." To my ears, the Neves sound closer to each other than the clones even with the differences.

That said...

None of it really matters unless you want to count the hairs on a fly's ass.

Last edited by delcosmos; 22nd January 2013 at 12:01 AM.. Reason: unnecessary use of words.
Old 21st January 2013
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
Only a fool spends 4-5K on a 1073 when you can get a 31102 for 3K.
I own several vintage 1073's and 1084's.
10 of them came with my BCM10.
The other 8 are beautifully racked and working hard every single day.
I prefer original stuff for the sound and resell value but...

I'm sure the BAE stuff should sound great, you can't go wrong with those.
I had some AMS-NEVE reissues and sold them after comparing against the originals.

Best regards.

delcosmos.
Old 21st January 2013
  #12
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emwolb View Post
Only a fool spends 4-5K on a 1073 when you can get a 31102 for 3K.
Silly thing to say.

I would say yes to the 1073 - if I knew it was working to spec. Then, absolutely. Hard to know that, of course; as others have mentioned, it might need some TLC. If it does, be prepared to put some more cash into it.

Cheers.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #13
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Showcase's Avatar
 

Bought a vintage Neve 1073 for 3500, well serviced by brent A.
Liked it very much over my clones, and since it was The preamp part I loved I later went on and bought 2 1272's micmod, got both for 1800, same sound but cheaper I think many of The clones which use carnhill trafo suffers from little less magic, especially in The low end that is found in marinairs actually, not bad but I prefer The vintage ones, Wouldnt pay more than 3500 though
Old 22nd January 2013
  #14
Gear Maniac
I have used a vintage neve 1073 and it was killer. I also have used a 7th circle audio neve clone and it was fair more usable if not just a little less "magic". My question is if your buying neve why not look into the great master's new designs. You can get 4 of his new pre amps of his for the price of his designs he did before he had years and years to make something better. That beings said I like my 7th circle better than the vintage neve I got to use because its more reliable and more flexible
Old 22nd January 2013
  #15
Gear Addict
 
EisenAudio's Avatar
 

As an investment? Without a doubt. As an everyday tool? Not without regular maintenance.

For mixing, I'd rather have a console full of AMS-Neve 1084. Very controlled and consistent, with - to my ears - a more balanced, flexible tone.

However, for tracking one channel at a time, a certain few lucky vintage modules are going to have some softness, personality, and complex low-level distortion that I have not heard the new ones approach without being a bit more aggressive. Certain singers on certain mics sound "better" this way if you have a less-than-modern taste. The difference is subtle, and whether or not it's worth the tradeoff of vintage module intermittency ruining a session is debatable.

For whatever it's worth, I've seen AMS, BAE, and original EQs side by side in the same console sound nearly interchangeable and fail in much the same ways. e.g. ELMA and isotat switches will get scratchy whether 5 years old or 40. It's probably time for a professional ultrasonic cleaning when they do.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by codestar View Post
My question is if your buying neve why not look into the great master's new designs. You can get 4 of his new pre amps of his for the price of his designs he did before he had years and years to make something better.
Well, for one...they don't sound the same...
Old 22nd January 2013
  #17
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SIXTWOFOUR's Avatar
Never heard the BAE's but the AMS Reissues do not sound at all like the vintage ones. So I have sold my 1081's and 1073's and replaced them with vintage modules. However I love the Shep clones. I have 4 Shep's they are GREAT!!! heh
Old 22nd January 2013
  #18
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIXTWOFOUR View Post
However I love the Shep clones. I have 4 Shep's they are GREAT!!! heh
Interesting. I've heard Sting is using the Shep clones. Will have to track some down. In the meantime, BAE is solid.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #19
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gear is cool's Avatar
It depends how you define "it".
Is it worth "it"?
What is "it" to you?
That thing, that magic, those bragging rights (nobody really gives a fuk), that little part of your brain saying "what if" or I wonder what "it" would of been like if only...
Lots of good points here, hope you choose what is right for you and make great music!
Old 22nd January 2013
  #20
Here for the gear
 

We have a Shep under our vintage Neve's and above our Vintech 473's. I have to say I am very impressed with the Shep and the Vintech.I have heard nothing but good things about the BAE stuff. Original Neve components are harder to source and expensive. When your vintage unit needs repair, it will be a burden for sure. If your priority is reliabiity over bragging rights, then I would go with the BAE or Aurora stuff. It seems to be closest to the original design. I love vintage Neve, but man is maintenance a pain.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #21
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SIXTWOFOUR's Avatar
I would ask GS user bassjam about the Shep's. I bought 2 of them from him. Before they bought them they did an exclusive shoot out of all the different Neve clones. I am also a hugh fan of the Neve 1064's. I have a rack of 8 of them and for a lot of things I like them better then my 1073's or 1081's.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #22
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcocet View Post
No clones that I've used sound exactly like a vintage Neve, but you've got to ask yourself the question how exact does it need to be?
agree. the vintage marinaire transformers seem to have a little bit more hair to them.
in a mix after all the other compression/eq/etc I seriously doubt anyone other than me is really going to care.
I've had a pair of vintage 1084's for years and while they are great they did need maintenance to get them back to a perfect great sounding stereo pair.
the eq sections are awesome.
I also love the Aurora,BAE and Avedis stuff.
Had the Aurora GTQ2 and it was a great compliment to the vintage 1084's.
would love to score a couple used MA5's someday.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #23
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SIXTWOFOUR's Avatar
Speaking of the Shep's. I just found a pair for sell then far less then a vintage 1073.

(vintage) 1073 worth it?2 Modules Neve Shep 1084 1073 Pre EQ Vintage | eBay
Old 23rd January 2013
  #24
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini View Post
Ive worked with the real deal and the BAE's, I would buy the BAE's. You can get 2 for the same price and they are brand new VS 40 years old and will most likely need maintenance right away. Even if your in a position of money is no object, there is not a big enough difference to really need an Neve 1073 unless your one of those guys who thinks gear gets you work..
the problem is clones do not sound like originals. There is a big difference. The parts these days are not the same as the originals. People always rationalize but the fact of the matter is, none of the current clones sound as beefy and thick
as the originals. It's starts with the transformers. I have a bunch of originals 1073, 1066 and 1081 (though this is not Class A). I also have a BAE 1073. It does not sound like a vintage Neve. Although I will say it sounds fantastic. It is much tighter and it is very nice on some things like piano and vocal. Some times I like it better on some sources than my real 1073a believe it or not. However I think for modern offerings there are better mic pres than BAE 1073. For one MA5 is better than BAE. Chandler LTD1 is better. Neve lb is as good as BAE. The thing is all these mic pres are clones, but they are all good but they are not like the originals since they have updated parts that are not exactly the same as the vintage ones

Personally I think for the money SCA n72 are the best mic pres they sound every bit as good as BAE not the same but as good in their own way. If you need Neve EQ they are useless to you, but the mic pre is awesome. also Wunder Audio though not really a Neve clone is better than BAE as far as girth and the eq is unbelievably good.

The thing about vintage Neves is it's like money in the bank or better. They will only go up in value. Call a reputable vintage dealer and get a clean well maintained module. You may have to wait but it's worth it . Make sure it has Marinair transformers. IMO the best sounding Neves are the 1066 modules with the can input transformer. The most vicious bottom end on the face of the earth. It's like and earthqauke when you run bass guitar through it. Also the high shelf is the unreal.

I don't mean to be rude but no clones sound like real Neves. they are merely in the "spirit" of their vintage counterparts. I had a really nice chandler LTD1 that supposedly had real vintage neve amplifier and eq cards in it and it was close but the difference was it had these 'carnhill' brand transformers. You want Marinair, worst case St. Ives. I could be wrong but I think 'carnhill' brand are really only affiliated with St ives in the sense that they are made in the same factory but wit modern materials. Heritage guitars are made in the old gibson factory on the original tooling/equipment, does "the Heritage" sound like a real 59 les paul? no and it's because the materials are different.

Neve 1066/1073 were made 35+ years ago. Materials procurement is not the same. That is the difference. People can
engage in marketing campaigns and hype but it doesn't mean because some one claims they sound the same
because they have the same windings doesn't mean anything. They are not the same as the originals.

IMO go vintage or just buy an SCAn72 or an MA5. Since they are as good as any other clone and a great price.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #25
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
the problem is clones do not sound like original
its not really a problem if you like good sound.
because they actually sound good.
its funny how I see some people obsessing neve this and that when they should really forget about the miniscule preamp differences and concentrate on good engineering/tracking/mixing practices.
Ive heard insanely good recordings done with clones,[vintech,seventh circle]etc.
its was waay more about the great sounding room /performance,engineer.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #26
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
the problem is clones do not sound like original
I don't totally agree with you. Vintage units that are well maintained sound great, the clones sound great. I have used vintage units that sound worse than the clones because most people don't do the maintenance required of owning an original. Your splitting hairs here, I'd rather spend my time making records than worrying if a BAE 1073 or a well maintained Vintage 1073 sound similar or not. Both are awesome, even if I had cash to throw away, the Neve wouldn't make my records sound better. So I buy the BAE's..
Old 23rd January 2013
  #27
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Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

I'm sorry but I did a very thorough shoot out with four different original 1073's and a wunder and a bae 1073. Sorry guys, they do not come close. Not even. Anyone saying that they do is trying to justify their investment.

On the other hand, if you only have $5k to play with, it would be stupid to buy ONE 1073. There is a lot more you can do with your money. 1073's are awesome but they will not "make" your studio.

The clones, even though they are not an original 1073, and are not even close, they are still awesome pieces of gear, they have "similar" characteristics, and on a budget, will get you much further.

I think I sold about twenty 1073's in the last 4 months?...
Old 23rd January 2013
  #28
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Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

I should also add IMO, the Wunder was MUCH closer then the BAE. Which came as a shock to me.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #29
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Showcase's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
its not really a problem if you like good sound.
because they actually sound good.
its funny how I see some people obsessing neve this and that when they should really forget about the miniscule preamp differences and concentrate on good engineering/tracking/mixing practices.
Ive heard insanely good recordings done with clones,[vintech,seventh circle]etc.
its was waay more about the great sounding room /performance,engineer.
I obsessing the low end in a vintage neve, thats what i like about it, and makes tracking more fun, mixing easier since it hard to eq that low in mix, all clones sounds good but lot more flat compared, Some might like that better ofcourse. Room/performance is ofcourse most important
Old 23rd January 2013
  #30
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
I should also add IMO, the Wunder was MUCH closer then the BAE. Which came as a shock to me.
wow.my experiences were waay different.
I bought two wunder peqs years ago and had my 1084's and averill 1073's.
I enjoyed the wunders.tons of gain yet they had no lower mid thick thing or saturation/girth when pushed whatsoever..pre was warm yet actually pretty polite/ docile clean and the eq's were very broad/smooth but none of the vibe/aggro of the others.
could never get the kick/snare sounds I got with the neve/averill stuff.
My Friend recorded/mixed a couple Black Rebel Motorcycle Club records with Neve 8014 stuffed w/ 14 Averills and a 2 originals..ironically mixed ITB..the Baby 81 lp always sounded amazing to me.
listen to that record and tell me whether it was recorded with neve or averill..does it really matter?
diff strokes I guess.
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