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(vintage) 1073 worth it?
Old 25th January 2013
  #61
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Breaux View Post
One thing that has been left out of this topic is the Aurora stuff.
There's a bit more than just "one" thing left out. I'll leave it at that.

IMO, the hype is what drives up the price of vintage units. Maybe also a bit of nostalgia. But as far as "getting that sound", it's easily had in modern units. This thread has not gone far enough to "find" it IMO, but it's out there.

On the 400 other 1073 clone threads.....
Old 25th January 2013
  #62
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
For years and years many users have been directly replacing their old modules with BAE modules in their vintage neve consoles and they are not sweating or mentally masturbating about the differences. They are passing signals through the modules and making money with their consoles
And there you go. The voice of reason....
Old 26th January 2013
  #63
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kingofswing's Avatar
Wow...

This thread brings back some memories of the ongoing Neve debates from years ago and has amazingly continued ever since.

It's all good though...and it's interesting that we have all tested this version and that version and preferred so and so better than the other. This will never change.

I think the clone makers have all come pretty far and today we have a great choice of the 'N' flavour in rack form or 500 series. It's crazy.

So many great choices now, and you are set to go. Take your budget, and grab what works for you and your wallet. They should all pretty much get you closer than having to shell out big bucks for the vintage ones.

Me personally, I still enjoy using my AMS 1073 (1290) DPA and the wonderful Portico preamps, eqs and compressors from Mr Neve. I don't care about the vintage vibe so much, these new offerings sound incredible already and work great for me, in a modern perspective.

I think quite differently nowadays, and would happily take a Heritage Audio or BAE or some AMS units. Obviously I won't grab any old thing that spells 1073, but some of these clone manufacturers are really working hard to deliver the best possible sound and avoiding the short cuts in the process.

Bottom line, if they sound good (smooth, big and warm)...then it's good..simple
Old 26th January 2013
  #64
Gear Addict
 
jono's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
a vintage Neve console just sitting there unused during mix time.
Used to ask him why he didn't use it on the mix..said "way easier to do it all ITB,recall etc"
engineered well in a good room.
just generic bomb factory/mdsp plugs etc.
its the ear not the gear.
using marinaire or carnill transformers made no difference.
so true. the whole 'clone vs. vintage' thing is completely irrelevant once you touch the material with a little eq/compression/verb/delay/whatever. at that point, it matters not.

regarding ITB mixing - does it seem to anyone but me that it's somehow less distracting working ITB?....maybe it's easier to pay attention to what you're hearing than f_cking around w outboard patching, laboring over which order compressors should go in a given track(s), etc. maybe because it's so easy to change ITB. Just a thought...
Old 26th January 2013
  #65
Lives for gear
I agree - we are all so preamp obsessed. If we should obsess about anything, it should probably be ,ore over mics and ADDA.
Old 26th January 2013
  #66
I like original.. but I also love clones. Give a few year of burn-in to new 1073 unit. Conversion is a kick ass in many studios. Acoustics.. there is a lot of ways how to spend 5k in home studio and really push it forward. You need basically few things only.. I prefer Golden Age project over VintageAudio.. but Aurora over GAP.. there is no much difference between Aurora and BAE.. in fact.. don't care how you brand it. All real 1073 things are working great and there are only few pres out there who can handle those performance. You definitely need good AD.. try out lavry black AD. If you have real U47 you would get world class chain under 2k.. spend rest 3k on monitoring or get vintage original and hold it as a studio classic stuff. But Neve never made me think it's magic. I simply expect it to be this way and it is - this is why I like it so much. Genysys, 1073, 88rs are simply the finest things for your music.. as good as simple. just my 2c
Old 26th January 2013
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
I agree - we are all so preamp obsessed. If we should obsess about anything, it should probably be ,ore over mics and ADDA.
Very agree my friend!
Old 27th January 2013
  #68
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Vintageidiot's Avatar
They are first chair for a reason. Add a great mic and you are good. Add a Urei Limiting Amplifier and you are golden......
Obviously it is not the only chain capable of superior performance....

Last edited by Vintageidiot; 27th January 2013 at 05:08 PM.. Reason: addendum
Old 28th January 2013
  #69
Gear Addict
 

I would say - depends... How financially wealthy etc..

It will not improve your song owning a Vintage, BAE, AMS.

If you think it will, I would rethink your whole approach...
Old 29th January 2013
  #70
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid View Post
I would say - depends... How financially wealthy etc..

It will not improve your song owning a Vintage, BAE, AMS.

If you think it will, I would rethink your whole approach...
Great gear can inspire. However it is engineer's job is to track other people's songs , not to write them or rethink them or even question them. It's a studio's obligation to provide the best quality equipment. That's what engineering is all about. It's about capturing a moment with the best possible signal chain. It's not about songwriting or the players' talents, or their lack of talents.

A professional engineer's unwritten code of ethics is to provide the best quality signal chain along with the best use of that signal chain for the price of services rendered.

If you get paid to write songs or produce songs that may be a different story but audio quality is dependent solely on equipment not on song writing.
Old 29th January 2013
  #71
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
Great gear can inspire. However it is engineer's job is to track other people's songs , not to write them or rethink them or even question them. It's a studio's obligation to provide the best quality equipment. That's what engineering is all about. It's about capturing a moment with the best possible signal chain. It's not about songwriting or the players' talents, or their lack of talents.

A professional engineer's unwritten code of ethics is to provide the best quality signal chain along with the best use of that signal chain for the price of services rendered.

If you get paid to write songs or produce songs that may be a different story but audio quality is dependent solely on equipment not on song writing.
agreed except that half the people who log on here are home recordist/singer songwriter etc types.
many with very little engineering skills or decent recording spaces..
Ive heard guys tracking with all the fancy stuff they read about here, got on their credit cards from VK recording in ****ty spaces with no mic technique wondering why the vintage 1073/1176 didn't suddenly transform their stuff into sonic gold.
Old 29th January 2013
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Yet there is only a debatable difference in quality between the 1073 inspired and original.. especially mixed, mastered etc..

So which is the best... who cares.. If you can't make a top recording with
any of the mentioned three - give up..

This has been going on GS for years... I could log off now and return
in 5 years and I bet there would be another thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet View Post
Great gear can inspire. However it is engineer's job is to track other people's songs , not to write them or rethink them or even question them. It's a studio's obligation to provide the best quality equipment. That's what engineering is all about. It's about capturing a moment with the best possible signal chain. It's not about songwriting or the players' talents, or their lack of talents.

A professional engineer's unwritten code of ethics is to provide the best quality signal chain along with the best use of that signal chain for the price of services rendered.

If you get paid to write songs or produce songs that may be a different story but audio quality is dependent solely on equipment not on song writing.
Old 29th January 2013
  #73
Question... Do they sell AML gear in Canada? The price is right, and it has the EQ as well, which I need badly.
Old 29th January 2013
  #74
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid View Post
Yet there is only a debatable difference in quality between the 1073 inspired and original.. especially mixed, mastered etc..

So which is the best... who cares.. If you can't make a top recording with
any of the mentioned three - give up..

This has been going on GS for years... I could log off now and return
in 5 years and I bet there would be another thread...
I guess I misunderstood you, I just don't think how god or bad a song is has anything to do with what equipment is commissioned in a studio.
As far as quality goes, if it didn't matter the top studios in the world would just grab a rack of modded chameleon labs 7602s or a bunch of racks of Gap pres or SCA n72s if a Neve desk didn't have something unique to offer.

It can't be both ways. One can't claim the difference between BAE and Vintage Neve are not negligible and then turn around and say the opposite about a modded Gap vs BAE. All these units are clones and they are all made from the same components.

So it comes down to: Do you need a vintage 1073? no, unless you want the super accurate vintage Neve sound. If you don't care about it being super accurate to the originals, then fine, pickup some modded Chameleon labs or modded gap pre and eq from ZenPro Audio. Since the difference between those clones and a BAE is only $2000 price difference. The sound is essentially the same. They are both clones, they are made from the same aftermarket components. The fact of the matter is a BAE 1073 has just as many original Neve components as a modded Chameleon labs 7602, and that number of original Neve components in both recreations is a big fat ZERO

Look inside, it's the same circuitry and essentially the same components. The only difference is BAE have a much better chassis. Save the $2000 and go with China.

So I agree with you, it doesn't matter. If you can't make a top recording with Gap or Chameleon labs or n72- give up
Spend the $2000 difference on room treatment and a nice interface.
Old 29th January 2013
  #75
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid View Post
This has been going on GS for years... I could log off now and return
in 5 years and I bet there would be another thread...
ha,true a new one of these friggin 1073 threads grows up like a weed every few months or so.has been for 10 years here.
Old 29th January 2013
  #76
Lives for gear
Better than another U47 thread...(that I would gladly join in)
Old 29th January 2013
  #77
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Question... Do they sell AML gear in Canada? The price is right, and it has the EQ as well, which I need badly.
Check with Jeff @ CAPI. I'm sure they ship into CA.
Old 29th January 2013
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Better than another U47 thread...(that I would gladly join in)
Let's start one!
Old 29th January 2013
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Check with Jeff @ CAPI. I'm sure they ship into CA.
It's nice and all but I have a feeling that they'd rape me at the Canadian borders with a ton of import taxes.

ps: When is Neumann releasing their new u47? Ok Ok I know I'm pushing it!
Old 29th January 2013
  #80
Gear Maniac
I've got 2 Heritage 1073s and an 8 ch SCA(4/N72s-4/A12s) for a little more than your budget. That covers all that "neve color" I need.
I guess at the end of the day it's pretty hard for for me to justify the extra expense of the "perfect" 1073 experience seeing that even the vintage ones can sound so different from each other. Instead of comparing BAE or Heritage or whatever else to an original.... just compare an original to an original.

Keep in mind your source... with every singer, instrument, or player, there is going to be wwwwaaayyyy more of an imprint from the source than from any differences between neve styled pre's.

All that said, there are some things in life I have just always wanted, period. If this is yours, life's too short. Get it, and enjoy it.
Old 29th January 2013
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jglover View Post
I've got 2 Heritage 1073s and an 8 ch SCA(4/N72s-4/A12s) for a little more than your budget. That covers all that "neve color" I need.
I guess at the end of the day it's pretty hard for for me to justify the extra expense of the "perfect" 1073 experience seeing that even the vintage ones can sound so different from each other. Instead of comparing BAE or Heritage or whatever else to an original.... just compare an original to an original.

Keep in mind your source... with every singer, instrument, or player, there is going to be wwwwaaayyyy more of an imprint from the source than from any differences between neve styled pre's.

All that said, there are some things in life I have just always wanted, period. If this is yours, life's too short. Get it, and enjoy it.
Have you used the AML one? Which pre do you usually use for vocals? The Heritage or SCA? I was planning to buy a Heritage 500 series.
Old 29th January 2013
  #82
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
It's nice and all but I have a feeling that they'd rape me at the Canadian borders with a ton of import taxes.
Ahh,,,, I get it. You might ask him if he knows of a Canadian dealer. Or email Colin @ AML directly. Or pick one up next time you're in Beverly Hills.
Old 29th January 2013
  #83
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Have you used the AML one? Which pre do you usually use for vocals? The Heritage or SCA? I was planning to buy a Heritage 500 series.
I haven't ever used the AML.

Between the 2, I lean on the heritage for vx mainly because of the hi pass and eq. I think it sounds a bit tighter than the SCAs too. But having the trim on the SCA is extremely handy.
Old 29th January 2013
  #84
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

vintage ones dont sound different at all if they were maintained well.
consecutive serial numbers is a bonus though.
Old 29th January 2013
  #85
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iangomes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
I agree - we are all so preamp obsessed. If we should obsess about anything, it should probably be ,ore over mics and ADDA.
Personally, I would rather have 1073's and a middle of the road adda than middle of the road pres and top converters on every channel... But that's just me!
Old 29th January 2013
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
vintage ones dont sound different at all if they were maintained well.
consecutive serial numbers is a bonus though.
oh right...
every tech on earth does the same exact work and uses the same exact parts
Old 2nd February 2013
  #87
Gear Head
 
Wild Sky's Avatar
 

My very humble contribution as an owner of 2 vintage modules in great shape.

First, what is the sound of an original 1073? Everybody raves about the lo end goodness of these. True, but I guess all the clone makers have that spec as their #1 goal. I would venture that what makes the vintage unit stand a wee bit apart is the hi freq content and the transient response. Original 1073's are authoritative and present without being harsh. Transients are just the right speed, not too fast, not too slow. The clones are a bit more hit and miss in this department in my (albeit limited) experience. Some are more "vintagey/dark" and some are more "bright/airy"..

Secondly, when you take into account the very, very musical nature of the frequency and transient response of the originals, they have a "batting average" that is second to none. They just always sound good, on everything, with every mic, in every genre, in every mix situation. Most of the time, you can find another pre that will outclass them for a particular application (even a clone), but the original 1073's will be second or third best every time. Again, less so for the clones IMHO.

That being said, I have enough pres now that the Neves are rarely my first choice anymore. But if I had to keep only one pair, they would probably be my first choice then!
Old 2nd February 2013
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Sky View Post
They just always sound good, on everything, with every mic, in every genre, in every mix situation.
Wow, they even sound great on talentless hacks? That's unheard of.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #89
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iangomes View Post
Personally, I would rather have 1073's and a middle of the road adda than middle of the road pres and top converters on every channel... But that's just me!


That's not just you. That's alot of people.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #90
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Wow, they even sound great on talentless hacks? That's unheard of.
Talentless hacks and orig 1073s are way better then talentless hacks and Behringer pres!
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