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Track counts, DAWs and is it really music? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 18th September 2002
  #61
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

In absolute agreement that having lots of track to put a bazzilion
microphones on instruments with each microphone having its own track is tremendous, however, when it comes to a "lead"
part like the vocal/guitar solo etc., that's where my issue with this
lies. While he may not have been the first to say this, Sinatra once
said a professional is someone who can do something TWICE.

Chris

P.S. Let those who haven't hit the "undo" button cast the
first stone!
Old 18th September 2002
  #62
I tried to read Eno's diary, I soon thought f**k this! I have MY own **** I am REALLY busy with.... Sheesh, the guy starts the book saying basically - I am a **** Father, my wife does it all, I am only an artist.

...WADEVAH!

Toss!

Example:

"today went to the park with Anastasia and Gertrude, we made lunar base stations out of Orange Peel and I was crowned, Prince of the Poop people by Gertrude, later back at the house, the kids wanted lunch but I can't cook because I am an artist, so I asked the kids to count up to a Googolplex while I returned calls from Oxford University accepting the Honorary Degree for my Ambient Fart Tone LP untill 5pm when our 15 year old babysitter returned and tried to show me for the hundredth how to use a can opener".



That book annoyed me!
Old 18th September 2002
  #63
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
It's great to have all those tracks available for use if needed. If they're not needed, don't use them just because they are there. IMHO it very much depends on the style of music how many tracks get used, but I don't think it is any indication of the QUALITY of the music.

In any case: Everything worth doing is worth over-doing heh
I dunno. To use your example who can remember any part of Accept's "Balls To The Wall" except the chorus? Not I. And how many tracks was that?

Yes, the gear shouldn't get in the way of the song or the creative process but I think a lot of times people end up doing things just because they can be done and not because they need to be done. And that is a disservice to the song.
Old 18th September 2002
  #64
Lives for gear
 

Why more tracks?

Because I never want to have to guess whether or not we've come to the chorus yet.

I want to know it's the chorus, when we get there.

Call me shallow, if you must. I can take it.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 18th September 2002
  #65
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I tried to read Eno's diary, I soon thought f**k this! I have MY own **** I am REALLY busy with.... Sheesh, the guy starts the book saying basically - I am a **** Father, my wife does it all, I am only an artist.
einstein didnt know his own telephone number.

and my intro wouldnt be all that much better... although i do know how to work a can opener, and a [hopefully] decent father. **** husband apparently.tut
Old 18th September 2002
  #66
The book had a positive effect on me, it made me want to kick more ass. I felt that I didnt have the time to waste reading it to start.

I have it here Alpha, I'm gonna ask the guy that lent it to me (a best friend) if I can pass it on to you..

Old 19th September 2002
  #67
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
Why more tracks?

Because I never want to have to guess whether or not we've come to the chorus yet.

I want to know it's the chorus, when we get there.

Call me shallow, if you must. I can take it.
I don't think anyone said you were shallow. And I don't have anything against large track counts IF they're needed. Hell, I can link both decks and run upto 48 tracks (more if I lock the DAW) at once but I've never had the need to. While I was painting today I listened to a bunch of CD's. How many tracks was Neil Youngs "Harvest" cut on? Some of the songs on there have a lot going on with strings and stuff.
Old 19th September 2002
  #68
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs


I don't think anyone said you were shallow.
Sorry, I should have put a smiley on my post. I was grinning when I wrote it.

I'm not defensive about this stuff, nor did I feel picked on. I just think it seems cooler to people to make a great record on a 16 track or a 24 track. Hey, it probably is cooler.

But I really like large projects. I have a serious streak of Curious George the Monkey in me. More tracks means more stuff to screw with, even if I decide to turn a bunch of it off in the end. Keeps thinks interesting for my short attention-span afflicted mind.

Plus, it's also similar to the reason I always want more horespower in my car. On a given day, I might just want to use it. Or not. Either way, I like knowing it's there.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 19th September 2002
  #69
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I haven't read all the posts, but I've got an answer anyway.

About a year ago I was hanging out with two other music friends at a party. I have a 2" 24-track, the next guy used Digital Performer and the third has a 1/4" 4-track and an Echoplex. The guy with the Echoplex has many different ways to bounce and have more tracks. He looks at us "real recording guys" and says "If you need more than 24 tracks you're not making music, you're playing video games!"

grggt
Old 19th September 2002
  #70
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Drumsound
I haven't read all the posts, but I've got an answer anyway.

About a year ago I was hanging out with two other music friends at a party. I have a 2" 24-track, the next guy used Digital Performer and the third has a 1/4" 4-track and an Echoplex. The guy with the Echoplex has many different ways to bounce and have more tracks. He looks at us "real recording guys" and says "If you need more than 24 tracks you're not making music, you're playing video games!"

grggt

Not to be ugly here, but maybe that headspace is why he is stuck using a 1/4" 4 track in 2002.

Bottom line is this, though: Is he making great music? If so, more power to him on his choices. If not, it doesn't matter what he uses.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 21st September 2002
  #71
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT



Not to be ugly here, but maybe that headspace is why he is stuck using a 1/4" 4 track in 2002.

Bottom line is this, though: Is he making great music? If so, more power to him on his choices. If not, it doesn't matter what he uses.


Regards,
Brian T
I'm sure what he's doing is interesting. It's for his own enjoyment anyway. I just thought what he said was funny.
Old 21st September 2002
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Drumsound


I'm sure what he's doing is interesting. It's for his own enjoyment anyway. I just thought what he said was funny.
It is funny. Heck, it might even be right. I dunno.

BT
Old 23rd September 2002
  #73
I've done a fair amount of dance remixes, some were in the 72 track neighborhood. Last year I did a brazilian jazz record with a string orchestra
scored 1st and 2nd violin, viola, 1st and second cello. The arranger had me record each part on their own tracks, not my favorite way, but what he wanted. That was in the 50-60 track land. Average rock pop projects around here are in the 40+ range. Things tend to be very hybrid here, I usually am working from the 2" with my computer chasing the deck. Midi I keep virtual unless its some stack I need to print. Other audio tracks come from the computer using an aardvark time sync II for sync and word clock. The dance stuff is usually hard disk and a goofy amount of midi
Old 24th September 2002
  #74
Jax
Lives for gear
 

I couldn't care less how many tracks it takes as long as it sounds like good music at the end.
Old 24th September 2002
  #75
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 

more tracks don' t make the music better...i usually find that the more tracks a client comes in the studio with for me to mix ...the less direction the music has....i have had projects with over 50 tracks...half of which never wound up on the final...some of the best music i have ever recorded i did in the pre historic days of 4track analog. sometimes actually having a limit on tracks makes what you do record more important....less fix in the mix(or one size fits all). there are exeptions to ever rule...and it is a new age....a hit is a hit is a hit is a hit.....more tracks the longer it takes the more i make
Old 26th August 2013
  #76
Here for the gear
 

memory lane-zombie thread time.
sorry,I was looking up something & this thread popped up.
my how things have changed..
the one constant is no matter how many or few tracks,a good song is still a good song.The Beatles proved it w/ 4 & Robert Johnson did it straight to acetate.
Old 27th August 2013
  #77
Lives for gear
 

I see this largely a music discussion but what about sound effects for film? What kind of track counts are typical in the non music realm?

I guess I'm simple. Most of the time a single stereo track does the job. The highest I've done was maybe 20 tracks. To be fair, what I record doesn't demand a high track count though.
Old 27th August 2013
  #78
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
In film and TV it can range in the hundreds.
Old 31st August 2013
  #79
Gear Addict
 
JohnRodd's Avatar
 

I do mostly score..... for film, games and TV - but I also do some album work.

Recording, mixing and mastering.

Music only, no SFX, no dialog.

My track counts range from between about 10... to 150 +++

The issue is that in a film score cue... if there is a musical sound that happens ONCE during that piece of music... I need it on it's own track.... as it will have it's own panning, level, reverb, etc etc etc... and I also am often creating many 5.1 stem mixes, as well as a full 5.1 stem mix, as well as a stereo fold down... all at one time.

So I need lots of control.

This is one of the reasons that track count in score mixing can get high, quickly.

cheers

John
Old 1st September 2013
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Melgueil's Avatar
 

I often found that being limited drove or forced creativity.

The law of diminishing returns applies to the luxury of these extra options as it does elsewhere . Beyond a certain point it`s pure overkill.

Cdlt,
Old 2nd September 2013
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Greg Curtis's Avatar
 

Track counts, DAWs and is it really music?

Full film mixes can have over 500 tracks. The latest Avid PT11 demonstration I attended had a live link to a post house in Culver City where a bunch of rigs were running a full 500+ channels mix.

Music mixes are different. But I'm with John in that each distinct element, however brief, is best served on its own track. We have the technology...

Also seeing more and more 96k recording sessions lately. Film scoring with nearly 48 live tracks. It becomes an issue when the composer inevitably wants another pass, and another, etc and the engineer wants it all up on the console...


Sent via iPhone/Tapasquawk
Old 2nd September 2013
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Looneytune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk View Post
i have no ****ing clue man. i top around 35. i think 40 was the MOST i ever hit, and on that one i was wasting tracks [iow, i didnt NEED 40]

i can make a record with 16 tracks.
100 percent this for me!!!!!! All day every day!
Old 2nd September 2013
  #83
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
I tried to read Eno's diary, I soon thought f**k this! I have MY own **** I am REALLY busy with.... Sheesh, the guy starts the book saying basically - I am a **** Father, my wife does it all, I am only an artist.

...WADEVAH!

Toss!

Example:

"today went to the park with Anastasia and Gertrude, we made lunar base stations out of Orange Peel and I was crowned, Prince of the Poop people by Gertrude, later back at the house, the kids wanted lunch but I can't cook because I am an artist, so I asked the kids to count up to a Googolplex while I returned calls from Oxford University accepting the Honorary Degree for my Ambient Fart Tone LP untill 5pm when our 15 year old babysitter returned and tried to show me for the hundredth how to use a can opener".



That book annoyed me!
Wow...I have never laughed so hard ever...

I think there was so much money back in the day being thrown around that for some people like Eno...life as a producer/engineer/songwriter became that of a prince running a feudal kingdom. It's a full time job to be sure if you manage yourself, but it's fairly telling how young some of the more successful people from that era really achieved success when they prove to have zero by way of life skills to boot.

I've never really gotten that whole Diva mentality where you have "handlers" or why people have children when they don't really wish to be involved in raising or caring for them. I'm not saying he's a bad person, but maybe detached in a way that's not healthy for kids?

Still...by the same token...you have to commit to art to succeed with it.
Old 16th September 2016
  #84
i realize I'm contributing to a 14 year old post ( Jaysus what does the server room look like?) But not counting the busses, I have a hard time getting up to 16 tracks in a daw most of the time. I have always wondered what in the sam hell is going on in a 100 track song?
Old 16th September 2016
  #85
Gear Addict
 

infinitely small means of escape
Old 21st November 2016
  #86
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
What happened to the days when a song wasn't a song unless you could play it on a guitar or piano and sing? Are they gone forever?
I think about this when I listen to the radio: "This song would sound pretty lame if the singer had to perform it live with acoustic guitar."

There do seem to be fewer songs, and a lot more "sound design" peppered with vocal hooks.

But the pendulum swings. We'll see what happens.
Old 21st November 2016
  #87
Gear Maniac
 

Interesting to see this post being brought back to live. As time has passed has the track count increased?
As a mix engineer mainly for my own productions maxing out at 30-40 tracks I always found it hard to understand these insane track counts.
But as I have recently started mixing for Labels in other genres (dance pop) I see that often there would be a stereo track with only a few sounds(sound design/perc) happening through the whole song. Plus the Vocal stacking is pretty heavy. Most vocals will be split in vers chorus mid 8 to separate tracks. So really it's just a little lazy track management.
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