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New U47's/U48 and Capsules
Old 7th October 2012
  #1
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New U47's/U48 and Capsules

So I have a Telefunken USA U48. Fine mic. Don't love it. But it sounds good. I want to love it... I think one reason is the glass tube.. I think another reason is maybe the capsule... I am pretty sure there is a Thiersch (spelling?) M7 in there. Great sounding capsule! I've had it for 3 years. The M7 is lovely. It sounds huge. The proximity effect is wonderful. It's just not the butter I want out of a 48. I Want more butter and more highs/high mids. On my voice it sounds perfect which is why i bought it. But more than 80% of the people I've recorded with it the last 3 years sound too dark on the mic.

I was told that a real Neumann K47 was what I was looking for. There are so many K47 repros out there I'm just wondering if anyone can point me towards the right decision. When I first tried this mic I tried two different headgrills. One had the M7. Which i bought. the other had whatever K47 Telefunken USA was putting in their mics. I thought it had harshness and didn't have the body of the M7. So what should I try?
Old 7th October 2012
  #2
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
So I have a Telefunken USA U48. Fine mic. Don't love it. But it sounds good. I want to love it... I think one reason is the glass tube.. I think another reason is maybe the capsule... I am pretty sure there is a Thiersch (spelling?) M7 in there. Great sounding capsule! I've had it for 3 years. The M7 is lovely. It sounds huge. The proximity effect is wonderful. It's just not the butter I want out of a 48. I Want more butter and more highs/high mids. On my voice it sounds perfect which is why i bought it. But more than 80% of the people I've recorded with it the last 3 years sound too dark on the mic.

I was told that a real Neumann K47 was what I was looking for. There are so many K47 repros out there I'm just wondering if anyone can point me towards the right decision. When I first tried this mic I tried two different headgrills. One had the M7. Which i bought. the other had whatever K47 Telefunken USA was putting in their mics. I thought it had harshness and didn't have the body of the M7. So what should I try?
When you mention the glass tube, are you talking about the VF-14k ?
Old 7th October 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
When you mention the glass tube, are you talking about the VF-14k ?
Yup.
Old 7th October 2012
  #4
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Cathedral Guitar's Avatar
I have compared Thiersch M7 mylar to real Neumann K47 the the Blackspade UM17R mic, and the K47 is not harsh at all, but does have more hardness to the sound of the trebles compared to the softness of the Thiersch M7. The Thiersch M7 has more of a vintage sound and the K47 sounds more modern. I really like them both, and you might want to consider getting a second mic, since no single mic does everything best.
Old 7th October 2012
  #5
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
So I have a Telefunken USA U48. Fine mic. Don't love it. But it sounds good. I want to love it... I think one reason is the glass tube.
Then you should probably check out Andrea Grosser's solid state tube... they sound lovely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
It sounds huge. The proximity effect is wonderful. It's just not the butter I want out of a 48. I Want more butter and more highs/high mids. On my voice it sounds perfect which is why i bought it. But more than 80% of the people I've recorded with it the last 3 years sound too dark on the mic.
Your overall description sounds more to me like you're looking for a different microphone all together [rather than the modification of your U-48]... but what do I know?

Best of luck with your search.

Peace
Old 7th October 2012
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Then you should probably check out Andrea Grosser's solid state tube... they sound lovely.



Your overall description sounds more to me like you're looking for a different microphone all together [rather than the modification of your U-48]... but what do I know?

Best of luck with your search.

Peace
I'll have to check out his tube! Right on. When I first bought this I shot out a few 47's. There was a vintage one that had what I was looking for to an extent. It was a bit brighter than this mic. And it had butter.. It had a VF14 and K47. When I was purchasing mics though I was on a budget. I couldn't justify spending 4K more on a vintage one just for some more high end... To me that 4K is another mic!

I've used a few 47s and 48s that are brighter than this one. I think maybe I'll just look into buying another headgrill and trying to find a NOS K47... Or maybe a new one.. Since Klaus seems to think they're sounding better than old ones. I have some brighter mics. It's not the mic that's the issue. It's just getting out of it what I want. I think the M7 sound is great and works for some people but maybe I just need to try the K47 in the work world for a little while to see what suits me best.

A K47 capsule will work with a U48 correct ? Like on a NOS capsule the case will say K47/U47.... Does that mean it would not work in a U48? I know of one and am looking into buying it. I thought voltages were just different so the same capsule can polarize differently.
Old 8th October 2012
  #7
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geareyes's Avatar
Yes, a K47 will operate in a U48.
Old 8th October 2012
  #8
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I've never used a bright u47/8.
Always needs some eq loving for the modern pop vocal sound, but that's what I like about it.. Its mellowness and thickness so it can be used on any material with some eq.
Can'd do that with bright mics.
Maybe a C12 is the OP's ultimate mic?
Old 8th October 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I've never used a bright u47/8.
Always needs some eq loving for the modern pop vocal sound, but that's what I like about it.. Its mellowness and thickness so it can be used on any material with some eq.
Can'd do that with bright mics.
Maybe a C12 is the OP's ultimate mic?
I'm probably being a little severe with my brightness comments... Maybe just upper mid clarity is what I should be saying... "butter"... The M7 to me is really big on the bottom and has a nice top but not an extensive top. The vintage 47 I shot out had a nice butter to it up around 4 to 6k. Not harsh. Just a presence. I dont want to sound like I think the M7 is scooped. It's not. To me its just very big and a nice little top. I want something a little more balanced. That old 47 with the K47 to me was more round and balanced frequency wise but didn't have the lows of the M7.... I think I just need to get another headgrill with a NOS K47. So I can have that option. C12 is too bright for what I'm speaking of. Any recommendations of which K47 to get? Should I get an NOS or should I get a new Neumann K47? Or is there an aftermarket someone is making that is quite good.....
Old 8th October 2012
  #10
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I think the current k47 you can get from Neumann is exactly the same as the old one.
Might be worth a try, though I still wonder whether your impression of the M7 capsule and k47 is specific to the particular mics you've used.
I have a large badge Neumann u47 with M7 reskinned by Thierch, and there's easily plenty of mids in there (kind of signature Neumann sound) with, as you've said, a great bottom end. I can't imagine I'd be happy with more mids than there already is, and I'm thinking your experience with a particular M7 is very different to myparticular M7.
So pinning your hopes on the K47 capsule might not be the answer.
Perhaps you could talk to Grosser and have him tune your U47 to exactly the sound you're after? That might be the capsule tuned a specific way, a change of tube, or a different electronic component like a couple of capacitors.
Maybe all of them combined.
The best in the business should be able to sort you out either way.
Good luck!!
Old 8th October 2012
  #11
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
A K47 capsule will work with a U48 correct ?
You will need to change the capsule mount as well as the capsule itself... a K-47 has a different exterior size than an M-7.

There were capsules made by Neumann GmbH specifically for the U-48. The two sides are better matched than they were in the K-47 capsule. They're pretty difficult to find, but if you do you'll understand why they're as expensive as they are.

Best of luck finding what you're hoping to find.

Peace
Old 8th October 2012
  #12
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Maybe you should give Ben from Beesneez a call. He does pretty much all the flavors.
K47, versions -a to -d at least.
K7 (= K47 with M7 flavor).
M7 (original style and improved for better time/phase relationship).
And PVC seems to be in the pipe line, too.

Also, he now uses the original gun metal alloy for the ring and such. Not "regular" brass, let alone plastic.

Give him a shout and tell him what you like to hear in/from a U47/48 (capsule).
And yes, your description might even make him suggest something different altogether (sort of like Fletcher indicated).



Henk
Old 8th October 2012
  #13
Chiconcuac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Your overall description sounds more to me like you're looking for a different microphone all together [rather than the modification of your U-48]... but what do I know?

Best of luck with your search.

Peace
agree, telefunken/usa microphones are superb recreations of the originals. Maybe you're best bet is a vintage U67.

Old 8th October 2012
  #14
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I have a pair of M269's. they have nice highs. I definitely don't have the higher miss I'm looking for In my 48 that I've heard in other 47s. I have a Pearlman too. It's pretty bright. I think it has a K47 in it. Works for some things. People with dark voices. But I'm looking for more butter out of my 48. It's not another mic thing. I have other mics. Think I'm going to order a head grill etc from Flea and get a Neumann K47. So I an change it out if I like.. And maybe have a friend that works on 47's mess with the filter cap trying different ones.. We'll see where I get. Ill be sure to post some audio!
Old 9th October 2012
  #15
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Quote:
There are so many K47 repros out there I'm just wondering if anyone can point me towards the right decision.
Well, I tried.

Some do a very nice M7 (yes, e.g. Thiersch), others do a K47. But I can't think of another guy who does 'em both, along with the subtle varieties and cross breeds. Built from the ground up (not talking re-skinning here) and in the original, non-plastic way.
I know he's willing to elaborate, listen and advise.

I personally don't think a new head basket will give you what you're looking for. But the electronics and tube could play a part.




Henk
Old 9th October 2012
  #16
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
I have a pair of M269's. they have nice highs. I definitely don't have the higher miss I'm looking for In my 48 that I've heard in other 47s. I have a Pearlman too. It's pretty bright. I think it has a K47 in it. Works for some things. People with dark voices. But I'm looking for more butter out of my 48. It's not another mic thing. I have other mics. Think I'm going to order a head grill etc from Flea and get a Neumann K47. So I an change it out if I like.. And maybe have a friend that works on 47's mess with the filter cap trying different ones.. We'll see where I get. Ill be sure to post some audio!
Why not give the guys at TFunk a call in CT. Their custom shop can supply you with a PVC M7 or a K47 capsule with their own head grills. So no worries about the fit. Or I am sure you could work with them on any thing else you may have in mind. Not cheap though, around $1800 when I inquired about a K47 ready to install.

I see the Neumann K47 capsules for sale NOS frequently on eBay and right here in the classifieds. I am sure they would help you get that on to your U48 too.
Old 9th October 2012
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
Why not give the guys at TFunk a call in CT. Their custom shop can supply you with a PVC M7 or a K47 capsule with their own head grills. So no worries about the fit. Or I am sure you could work with them on any thing else you may have in mind. Not cheap though, around $1800 when I inquired about a K47 ready to install.

I see the Neumann K47 capsules for sale NOS frequently on eBay and right here in the classifieds. I am sure they would help you get that on to your U48 too.
Yes when I first bought my 48 they gave me two headgrills to try out. One was the Theirsch. I'm not sure what the other was. I think the one I have is the PVC M7 and the other was a Mylar M7... I'm definitely not into paying 1800 for a loaded headgrill! I can get a Flea for a little over $800. Capsule is all I have to supply at that point.

I'd love to pop in a NOS VF14. I know it makes a difference. Probably not the difference I am looking for but it would help. The glass tube they supply is ok. Noisy. I just had one replaced. New one is quiter. But not as quiet as my 269's or KM54. I'd be curious in the solid state circuit Fletcher was mentioning.... Or a UF or EF... Just to hear the differences.
Old 16th October 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg58 View Post
Yes when I first bought my 48 they gave me two headgrills to try out. One was the Theirsch. I'm not sure what the other was. I think the one I have is the PVC M7 and the other was a Mylar M7... I'm definitely not into paying 1800 for a loaded headgrill! I can get a Flea for a little over $800. Capsule is all I have to supply at that point.

I'd love to pop in a NOS VF14. I know it makes a difference. Probably not the difference I am looking for but it would help. The glass tube they supply is ok. Noisy. I just had one replaced. New one is quiter. But not as quiet as my 269's or KM54. I'd be curious in the solid state circuit Fletcher was mentioning.... Or a UF or EF... Just to hear the differences.
I have Andreas Grosser's U47, and I have tried it with several of the Thiersch capsules and now have a new Neumann K47 in it.
It is more transparent and detailed than the Thiersch was. (Mylar M7). It also sounded great in a Flea U47 that we tried it in- better I thought than the stock Flea capsule, which I believe is also a Thiersch, though that also sounds very good.
The Thiersch had more bottom, just seemed overall to be more congested than the Neumann.
I don't know if that speaks to your problem, I wouldn't necessarily say it is more "buttery" than the Thiersch.
A real VF14 will help also, I preferred it to the FET device that Andreas makes, though not by much, and not for the cost. But if I were you, and I assume you are in Germany, I would send the mike to Andreas and get his advice, though it will probably be to buy his mike! He is the most knowledgeable guy on those style mikes near you, if you are indeed in Germany.
BTW I don't think anything will get you to the "buttery" sound of an original U47, that's why they go for the big bucks. It's a combination of a lot of aged components, some of which can't be duplicated 100%. You need to evaluate your mike based on what it is and how it suits your needs, after you get it as close as you can to what you are looking for.
Old 17th October 2012
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Then you should probably check out Andrea Grosser's solid state tube... they sound lovely.



Your overall description sounds more to me like you're looking for a different microphone all together [rather than the modification of your U-48]... but what do I know?

Best of luck with your search.

Peace
I love to hear the U 47 Grosser.
I searched but I can not find samples.
Can anyone provide some information?
Old 5th August 2016
  #20
Gear Maniac
i use un my Flea U47 M7 thiersch PVC capsule and K7 (k47) Beesneez Mylar.
for my ears:
M7 has a little more bottom at 200hz and below , and has a very pretty silky detailed high end at 10khz (i think PVC is more detailed in top end) more vintage overall
K47 has a little bit more body in the mids and more presence in the high mids 2-4 khz and less high end at 10khz , a bit more modern

and there isnt a huge difference between both, as both shares a similar signature sound.

maybe what you need is a La3a compressor style like JLM LA500 that adds body, mids and silky shine to the sound. You wont regret for sure
Old 17th August 2016
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMNproyect View Post
i use un my Flea U47 M7 thiersch capsule and K7 (k47) Beesneez Mylar.
for my ears:
M7 has a little more bottom at 200hz and below , and has a very pretty silky detailed high end at 10khz (i think PVC is more detailed in top end) more vintage overall
K47 has a little bit more body in the mids and more presence in the high mids 2-4 khz and less high end at 10khz , a bit more modern

and there isnt a huge difference between both, as both shares a similar signature sound.

maybe what you need is a compressor style like JLM LA500 that adds body, mids and silky shine to the sound. You wont regret for sure
This was from a few years ago, I love my with the Theirsch M7 but I have been reading about the Beezneez K7 and think if he will make me a figure 8 one I may go for it and grab another head grill. I tried a late 50's not long ago and even with a Nuvistor it had this butter that my mic lacks, it had a replacement Neumann K47 sometime in the 70's... I'd snag an original K47 but the K48's NEVER pop up.

Oh I have a pair of old UREI LA3A's they do the trick

Last edited by Hamburg58; 17th August 2016 at 07:33 AM.. Reason: added something
Old 17th August 2016
  #22
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Yup, old thread. I was in it, too. I did mention other components in general, but maybe I should have brought up the transformer specifically.
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