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Chandler TG-2 or 2 Germaniums? Condenser Microphones
Old 21st June 2006
  #1
Gear Head
 

Chandler TG-2 or 2 Germaniums?

I'm after a pair of vintage sounding preamps that have that 'beatles' feeling. What would you choose and why?

Many thanks.
Old 22nd June 2006
  #2
which era of beatles? it can be (generally) broken down into three types of sound depending on which album(s) you're talking about. unless you're talking about abbey road specifically, chander gear (as cool as it is) isn't the answer. as i understand it, the first few albums used modified v72s in the emi redd37 consoles, from around hard days night or help they were the emi custom pres in the redd 51 consoles (http://revolutionrecording.com/r47mkii.htm makes a niiiice clone) and only abbey road was solid state. if the abbey road sound is what you're after, don't forget a TG1. and keep in mind they used various outboard, so other pre-amps may have been used, and compressors like fairchild. what's the plural of fairchild anyway? fairchildren? all this will sound more like the beatles if you're using a U47 or U48 (i think they used it in fig8 for bass sounds). hope that helps you.
Old 22nd June 2006
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo_baby84
which era of beatles? it can be (generally) broken down into three types of sound depending on which album(s) you're talking about. unless you're talking about abbey road specifically, chander gear (as cool as it is) isn't the answer.


I think the poster is probably just referring to a sound that most of us would equate with having the general vibe of the 60's...which to me, personally, means a substantial amount of musical harmonic distortion (around 10% probably once the final mix is completed...wouldn't be surprised), and maybe even some intermodulation distortion.

It's so hard to pin the Beatles down to just gear, I mean it was THEM along with Emerick and Martin, right? If you took the Beatles circa 1966 and put them at Cello in 2000 or Universal Recorders in 1965 it would still sound like the Beatles. So my point being, is that the Chandler gear is going to let you be a part of that heritage, just like if you used the same color pallette (and even brands of paints) that Picasso or Munch used.

But it's totally up to the artist & producer as to whether the music comes to that level, and to the engineer and producer as to whether the recording itself represents the artist in the best way available. So if you have good songs and a good production team, chances are very good that the Chandler gear is going to give you what you are looking for. A high quality recording with a lot of character. And trying to choose between the two is going to be difficult...even if you have them both in front of you. Rolls Royce or Ferrari? Flip a coin.
Old 22nd June 2006
  #4
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

old tape machine... lots of submixed bounces... old tape machine... lots of submixed bounces...

and old neumanns, and an old console.

get those, and run 'em with a v72 or tg2 or even a germanium and you'll be in the parking lot, which is close to, but not exactly in, the ballpark.

mic technique, instruments, room acoustics, and mixing aesthetic had so much to do with it. also, as has been said, the beatles had a role, apparently.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 22nd June 2006
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred
I think the poster is probably just referring to a sound that most of us would equate with having the general vibe of the 60's...which to me, personally, means a substantial amount of musical harmonic distortion (around 10% probably once the final mix is completed...wouldn't be surprised), and maybe even some intermodulation distortion.


Exactly..........

I don't expect to sound like the Beatles. I'm after a very coloured, non-tube, vintagey preamp. What do you think then?
Old 22nd June 2006
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Well, I'm going to disagree a bit here. I think there's a difference in the overall vibe between Beatle albums regardless of the fact that the Beatles played on all of them.

In my mind, Revolver says "The Beatles" to me sonically speaking. Moreso than Abbey Road or The White album. So I have to say V72s is the vibe your probably talking about. But as mentioned, it's still a small piece of the pie.

Personally I think the Chandler TG series unwittingly gets a bad rap. It's alot more flexable sonically speaking, and doesn't automatically stamp the '60s on your sound. It's the whole process that counts. I mean the most famous album done on the EMI TG desk was DSOTM - when I listen to that I don't think, "Yeah that's the sound of the 60's or 70's". I don't think it has a "dated" sound whatsoever.
Old 22nd June 2006
  #7
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in the red's Avatar
 

if the choice is between two germs or tg2 i´d go with the two germs. just did a shootout yesterday on guitar between my preamps and the germanium sounds more "vintage" to me then the tg2. germ is rounder and warmer, tg2 a lot more agressive in the mids and not as much smoothness. but both are wonderful anyway...
Old 22nd June 2006
  #8
Gear Addict
 

why not both?

I'm currently experimenting with a triple mic setup with Sen 421 and SM57 -> TG2, and R121 -> Germ for gtrs. I will be trying other combinations as well. I like what the Germ does on my voice - adds a nice heft. Does any of this relate to Beatles? Well, I don't know - I like the Beatles, but I'm not really (consciously) trying for their sound.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Tried the TG2, then tried the germanium.
Now I have 4 germaniums.
I have no TG2's.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #10
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allencollins's Avatar
 

Look around for some Vintage Telefunken v76 v72 series pres or some real EMI modules. The Teles go for around 1500 a pair. I think VK sells them. I'm not sure if they are germanium trans but they sound similar to the Chandler TG just way smoother, more focused and more quality sounding. I heard one recently for the first time and was blown away.

I know lots of folks here love the chandler germaniums but I think they sound bad.
If you want beatles tone I would not buy a germanium. The germanium is kinda muddy when stacked.
If you want beatles tone I wouldn't buy a TG either. It like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to an Ephiphone Les Paul
Sure it sorta looks like a les paul but it doesn't really sound like one. Chanlders are good inexpensive
knock offs but they will never be the real thing. I would just buy the real thing
Old 23rd June 2006
  #11
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s.d.finley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
you'll be in the parking lot, which is close to, but not exactly in, the ballpark.

gregoire
del ubik
Ha,

nice analogy

sdf
Old 23rd June 2006
  #12
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airmate's Avatar
 

talking beatles...

i have all three options mentioned before in my gear arsenal: two vintage siemens v72 modules, a chandler germanium pre and a tg channel mk2 (and also some more preamps: two v276, a custom made brauner tube mic pre...).

i got the germ a couple of weeks ago, so i have to do some more testing/recording with it.
it feels like i still have to find out some details about it, it's so versatile...

with that being said, the v72's are my most favourite preamps - they are sooo round and thick and vibey... like a big spoon of honey in my sonic tea... heh heh

but on the other hand: i wouldn't want to miss any single one of these preamps. so i guess it really comes down to shootout in your studio. however, you can't go wrong with any one of these...

keep it mind there are plenty of applications where i even prefer the v72 over a 1073. and i'm sure i'm not alone. but as always, ymmv.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #13
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airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
Look around for some Vintage Telefunken v76 v72 series pres or some real EMI modules. The Teles go for around 1500 a pair. I think VK sells them. I'm not sure if they are germanium trans but they sound similar to the Chandler TG just way smoother, more focused and more quality sounding. I heard one recently for the first time and was blown away.
no, the v76/v72 series are all tube units...

the follow-up series with three digits after the "v" is discrete transistor based.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #14
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaray
Exactly..........

I'm after a very coloured, non-tube, vintagey preamp. What do you think then?
Telefunken V672. Solid state pre that came out after the V72/V76. A nice racked pair modded with a bit more gain, phase, 48v and pad will cost about $1500 ish from Marquette Audio Labs. A pair of V676a would be nice too and as far as I know, those used germanium transistors as well.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #15
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaray
Exactly..........

I don't expect to sound like the Beatles. I'm after a very coloured, non-tube, vintagey preamp. What do you think then?
I'm joining the choir chanting Germanium. More colored that almost any other solid state (or tube) high-end preamp avaialble. TG2 is nice, but not as zesty as the Germ.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #16
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystr Tiger
I'm currently experimenting with a triple mic setup with Sen 421 and SM57 -> TG2, and R121 -> Germ for gtrs. I will be trying other combinations as well. I like what the Germ does on my voice - adds a nice heft. Does any of this relate to Beatles? Well, I don't know - I like the Beatles, but I'm not really (consciously) trying for their sound.
I got a Beatles guitar sound once, many years ago. Sort of an Abbey Road era Lennon rythm tone, big and snotty and midsy. We used an Epiphone 335-type guitar (don't remember the model) and a Fender amp (a Twin maybe?) and we kept turning the knobs on the guitar and the amp until we liked it, put a Neumann U67 about 3 feet out, used the pre on the Trident 80B console, and hit the red button on the MCI JH24. No V72 or EMI gear. Just a good guitar, amp, and set of ears.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
I got a Beatles guitar sound once, many years ago. Sort of an Abbey Road era Lennon rythm tone, big and snotty and midsy. We used an Epiphone 335-type guitar (don't remember the model) and a Fender amp (a Twin maybe?) and we kept turning the knobs on the guitar and the amp until we liked it, put a Neumann U67 about 3 feet out, used the pre on the Trident 80B console, and hit the red button on the MCI JH24. No V72 or EMI gear. Just a good guitar, amp, and set of ears.
Seems funny to me how much we focus on pre-amp selection when there are so many other factors involved. As you say, you used an Epiphone 335-type guitar and twisted knobs. Now, just swap out the Epi for a Stat or a LP and everything changes. Swap out the Trident for a V72 and I wonder if that would be as dramatic. I agree with you, with special emphasis on a good set of ears (which in my case I wish were better).
Old 23rd June 2006
  #18
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
Look around for some Vintage Telefunken v76 v72 series pres or some real EMI modules. The Teles go for around 1500 a pair. I think VK sells them. I'm not sure if they are germanium trans but they sound similar to the Chandler TG just way smoother, more focused and more quality sounding. I heard one recently for the first time and was blown away.

I know lots of folks here love the chandler germaniums but I think they sound bad.
If you want beatles tone I would not buy a germanium. The germanium is kinda muddy when stacked.
If you want beatles tone I wouldn't buy a TG either. It like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to an Ephiphone Les Paul
Sure it sorta looks like a les paul but it doesn't really sound like one. Chanlders are good inexpensive
knock offs but they will never be the real thing. I would just buy the real thing
What "Beatles" tone? It's a silly generalization. Nathan's post said it best as always.

I think the Germ is one of the most versatile pres I've owned and definitely gets that big warm thing going well. And the whole stupid stacking thing, PLEASE don't start that vapid argument again. Every record for decades was "stacked" with no problem until pre amp manufacturers saw a bundle to be made. Please. It's called EQ.

I grew up in the Beatles era.

I recorded at Abbey Road in 1969 in both rooms ....Studio 3 with the tubes, and Studio 2 with the TG stuff.

Well familar with the sound.

Agree to disagree re Chandler, which is some of the best stuff out there.

TH
Old 24th June 2006
  #19
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allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks
What "Beatles" tone? It's a silly generalization. Nathan's post said it best as always.

I think the Germ is one of the most versatile pres I've owned and definitely gets that big warm thing going well. And the whole stupid stacking thing, PLEASE don't start that vapid argument again. Every record for decades was "stacked" with no problem until pre amp manufacturers saw a bundle to be made. Please. It's called EQ.

I grew up in the Beatles era.

I recorded at Abbey Road in 1969 in both rooms ....Studio 3 with the tubes, and Studio 2 with the TG stuff.

Well familar with the sound.

Agree to disagree re Chandler, which is some of the best stuff out there.

TH

I think Beatles tone is kinda bad. I always though the beach boys stuff and Cream stuff sounded way better. I just think the Beatles had better songs.........

Chandler stuff is way overrated. I don't see the hype. Ive bought three of his units I've sold them all.

Also I never recorded at abbey road. I don't think I would want to. I have never heard a disk recorded there that impressed me.
dark side is ok sounding. Most big lp's recorded there were about the songs.

I think George Martin was a incredible arranger but the sonic quality of his recordings I think fall short compared to other disks recorded in that era


"Please. It's called EQ." duh................
Old 24th June 2006
  #20
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
Most big lp's recorded there were about the songs.
................

All big LP's are about the songs....


TH
Old 24th June 2006
  #21
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
Chandler stuff is way overrated. I don't see the hype. Ive bought three of his units I've sold them all.
okay ... Fine.


The Chandler gear all sounds great. I use the LTD-2s all the time in mastering and record my own guitars with both the TG2 and Germ.

To answer the initial post, the TG2 is more that 60s British sound than the Germ, which has more top end. TG2 is low-mid thick like a Marshall, Germ is brighter and potentially beefy thick like a Vox with a germanium distortion pedal.
Old 24th June 2006
  #22
Lives for gear
 

overrated or not, I'm getting some killer tones bitttttch
I have every piece of chandler gear except the LTD-2 compressor and the mini mixer. I think it's great stuff.
LTD-1 on kick, TG channel on snare, germaniums on room. I'm getting great drum sounds with just 8 of their pre's and the rest wunder and SCA. Sometimes I use the wunder on kick too. They all work well.
Old 25th June 2006
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
okay ... Fine.


The Chandler gear all sounds great. I use the LTD-2s all the time in mastering and record my own guitars with both the TG2 and Germ.

To answer the initial post, the TG2 is more that 60s British sound than the Germ, which has more top end. TG2 is low-mid thick like a Marshall, Germ is brighter and potentially beefy thick like a Vox with a germanium distortion pedal.
Sorry to digress, but can you describe how you use the LTD 2s in mastering (if there are any patterns). I tend to use them the same way at whatever stage I'm using them in and I'm curious if other people are doing the same thing.

They're one of the few pieces of gear that seem to be in every room or close to it at Sterling. George Marino has 6 (!) and I don't recall seeing any other analog compressors in his room, maybe a vari-mu. Unfortunately he zeros everything at the end of the day, so I couldn't look.
Old 25th June 2006
  #24
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins

I know lots of folks here love the chandler germaniums but I think they sound bad.
If you want beatles tone I would not buy a germanium. The germanium is kinda muddy when stacked.
If you want beatles tone I wouldn't buy a TG either. It like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to an Ephiphone Les Paul
Sure it sorta looks like a les paul but it doesn't really sound like one. Chanlders are good inexpensive
knock offs but they will never be the real thing. I would just buy the real thing,

I think Beatles tone is kinda bad. I always though the beach boys stuff and Cream stuff sounded way better. I just think the Beatles had better songs.........

Chandler stuff is way overrated. I don't see the hype. Ive bought three of his units I've sold them all.

Also I never recorded at abbey road. I don't think I would want to. I have never heard a disk recorded there that impressed me.
dark side is ok sounding. Most big lp's recorded there were about the songs.

I think George Martin was a incredible arranger but the sonic quality of his recordings I think fall short compared to other disks recorded in that era
So you think Beatles sound bad and Chandler stuff sounds bad, too...
so why the hell not recommend Chandler for that bad Beatle-sound ???
Old 25th June 2006
  #25
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey
Sorry to digress, but can you describe how you use the LTD 2s in mastering (if there are any patterns). I tend to use them the same way at whatever stage I'm using them in and I'm curious if other people are doing the same thing.
mmmm ... i mostly like the sound of the box, i use a mid setting grab (not much meter) in combination with another analog comp.

i was late to the piece, and have found it great for that rock push/cohesion ... but i dont hit it hard, as it's grabby no mater what
Old 26th June 2006
  #26
Would the other one be the Phoenix by any chance?

I've been finding that I really like a little tap with a fast attack and fast release (which is a little uncommon for me) followed by a hard push in to the Phoenix set slowly.
Old 26th June 2006
  #27
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Actually I use the Requisite L2M, but it's similar to the Phoenix as you're saying.
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