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Big-Ass Kick Goodness!
Old 8th September 2002
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Big-Ass Kick Goodness!

attached is the basic pick below

1) shure sm-91 > averill 1272 > la-2a re-issue
2) akg d-12e > api 312

skipped the blanket on the kick, yet could have gotten alittle more bang with one, yet it just wasn't needed for this session

the sm-91 gave more of the beater and alittle low end energy, the the d-12e really gave us the oooomph we needed, anyone else diggin the shure pzm in the kick?
Attached Thumbnails
Big-Ass Kick Goodness!-kick.jpeg  
Old 8th September 2002
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

also should have added that we went for our main sound with the band in a semi-circle, full-bleed - no cans - just band and mics.

We set up an ORTF pair of Schoeps cmc6/mk4v's that went to a buzz audio MA 2.2. This picked up the band in stereo as they were laid out, and in mix with a small bit of highpass aroung 50hz or so - will help glue the mix. As you can see over the right, the GTR amp has a 421 on the lower cone's left edge pointing towards the center yielding slightly better isolation, and the U87 is set in cardiod with the 10-db pad engaged, facing sligtly down on the amp (it just sounded good right there)

so far the session sounds pretty good for entering it without any sleep for a day!
Attached Thumbnails
Big-Ass Kick Goodness!-schoeps-view2.jpeg  
Old 8th September 2002
  #3
The Kick drum crime commitee is analizing this photo to see if there was a physical contact between the D12 stand and the Kick shell.

If there was, they will be paying you a house call!



(so make sure you have put out your best doilies)
Old 8th September 2002
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
The Kick drum crime commitee is analizing this photo to see if there was a physical contact between the D12 stand and the Kick shell.

Must just be the way the photo is - the d-12e is actually about 2 inches off of the head, and worked marvelously....
Old 8th September 2002
  #5
No need for a visit then.

Good day!

Old 8th September 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

I'm always paranoid about how close my mic stands are to the kick as well. I still haven't got to try the Shure PZM yet. If you had good results with your D12, maybe I should try it with mine.
Old 9th September 2002
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
I'm always paranoid about how close my mic stands are to the kick as well. I still haven't got to try the Shure PZM yet. If you had good results with your D12, maybe I should try it with mine.
yeah, the picture is slightly deceiving - note the reflection of the mic from the head, and notice how you can see the whole face of the d-12e on an angle where it only could do so if was backed off a bit.

I've tried mics around the kick, yet anything father back that works is usually a condensor for me, and then it all comes down to bleed issues. For this gig, it was rock out one take songs in the room, with the band in a semi-circle, so the d-12e up nice and close provided a mightly boom, yet with little enough bleed that some minor gating could be applied after the fact if needed.

all I know is that I want to get a DPA 4011 and put that shit about half an inch from the kick where the d-12e was, or if the drums are completly isolated, a 4006 omni since the resistance to proximity effect might help - either way an accurate as hell mic that's ruler flat might work out dope and give you flexibility come mix....

E-Cue - we know you dig dem phat ass beats, and I'm sure you get clients that almost want roland sample-like kicks, what do you do before you end up spending some time with your pal sound replacer?
Old 9th September 2002
  #8
e-cue and I are reffering to THE BASE of the mic stand touching the rim of the kick drum ... not the mic grill touching the drum head!

Old 9th September 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by JayCrouch

E-Cue - we know you dig dem phat ass beats, and I'm sure you get clients that almost want roland sample-like kicks, what do you do before you end up spending some time with your pal sound replacer?
I usually have the luxury of tailoring each kit sound for each song. I'm a huge fan of renting a kit for each song (usually DW kits that come with a kick drum in the key of the song). Drum doctors in LA are AWESOME when it come to renting. A lot of the rock projects I work on, I try to do this as well. I don't care, or really want the kit to sound the same on every song on a record. Continuity bores me a lot. I really like recording one or two Lo Fi tracks with the kit like a baby monitor mic'd going through a distressor on nuke, a phone mic, etc...or something like that that I can use in a breakdown (mute all the drums except for the baby monitor track). You can't use this stuff in, say, a gospel ballad record, but it's great for those N.E.R.D.-style bands. Sometimes I'll tape a Quarter, Nickel, Dime, Penny, etc to the kick side of the kick. (yes, I usually go through each of the coins to see what sounds best) I never rely on Soundreplacer.
I'm very adaptive when I do live drums. I do my research: Key of song, is it a ballad?, Uptempo?, What does the live room sound like? etc... But I do most of my changes on the fly, and like to think of my engineering as a way of customing the drums to fit the sound, almost like a musician plays an instrument.
If I'm stuck (no budget for drum kit, shitty room, bad kit, etc: almost always budget issues), then I consentrate on getting good attacks. This makes sound replacing a lot easier (even through I NEVER swap live drums for replaced samples, I do mix them in with the original signal).
Old 13th September 2002
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue

Drum doctors in LA are AWESOME
yes. Do you/have you used Drum Paradise? better rates/as good service, ect.
(I like Ross alot though).
Old 13th September 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

They do have better rates, but my experence with Ross and Drum DR's has ben one where I can play a song, and they set up accordingly. No other rental company does this for me, or asks questions that will help give them an idea of the sound I'm looking to capture.
Old 13th September 2002
  #12
Nothing like that in London. I had a cool Scottish cat come and drum tech for me but he lost it and split up to Scotland a while ago..

I am learning to tune them myself..

Damn I need a digital camera!

I want to show yall my tuning gizmo I bought..

Old 13th September 2002
  #13
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I want to show yall my tuning gizmo I bought..

is it the TAMA drum watch? if so i was wondering how those worked.
Old 13th September 2002
  #14
It a big round heavy cylinder with a soft pointed spike pokeing through a hole in the middle (pushed by a spring) attached to a big dial / meter. You calibrate it on glass or some other very hard surface to Zero, then when you put it 1/2" from a drum lug - it gives you a tension reading say "90" . match them (booklet gives a guideline on good starting figures)

I have had good sucsess with tuning a snare roughtly to a note on a song or my 'Zen pitch', then matching all the lugs to preserve it.

I feel it may TEACH me in the end to do what drummers learn over the years..

Cost - about $100

But it can be no good on old drums with faulty lugs I am told.. Then experience is the only way forward...
Old 13th September 2002
  #15
Gear Nut
 
Andy Sneap's Avatar
 

Tama tension watch, new heads, lug locks and moon gel, job done . By the way the older SM91's (and 98's) sound better than the new ones.
Old 14th September 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
adam_w's Avatar
Yeah, I'll second the drum watch..one of my client bands drummer is a tech for quite a few big touring bands and swears by that thang which seems to work pretty damn well. I'm gonna retain it for long term supervision next time he's through the studio as it is traditional he steals a bit of percussion from us everytime he passes through here, so I reckon we'll be even !

Back on topic - Anyone else been using a "resonator" in front of their kicks ?
Old 14th September 2002
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Mats Olsson's Avatar
 

I guess I'm very lucky in that we have a super talented drum tech on staff (and as a player he smokes! . He studied at PIT for a couple of years.

/Mats
Old 20th September 2002
  #18
Here for the gear
 
The Specialist's Avatar
 

It might have sounded awesome, but even more awesome with a new front kick head. The drummer still has the head that came with the kit (or so it seems). I've been stoked by a trick a buddy showed me, A d112 outside and a RE20 outside, it's like instant kick.

Either that or I was still drunk from the night before!

Anybody try the Sennheiser 602? I've used it sucessfully on demos, but don't trust it enough for prime time. A bit fluffy for me sometimes, but I still haven't locked it down. I do like it live for the fluff, since fluff seems hard to get or uncontrollable live. This mic seems to do it just tight enough live.

V
Old 20th September 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by The Specialist
A d112 outside and a RE20 outside, it's like instant kick.
V
Both outside?
Old 20th September 2002
  #20
Here for the gear
 
The Specialist's Avatar
 

Oops, I meant D112 inside RE20 outside.
Old 21st September 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

I have a 602.. the best way for me to describe it is that, you know the EQ that typically is done on a D112? the 602 has that built in. not always the rifght choice, but I have had some great sounds with it.
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