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500 series consoles
Old 1st July 2012
  #1
Gear Head
 

500 series consoles

Hi,

as far as I know, the following consoles are the only ones that can accommodate 500 series modules:
API 1608
Neve 5088 (with some adapter bracket)
Tree Audio 500
Purple Audio Super 8 (not sure but I assume it can)

Anyone knows about anything else? Any new console that might be released soon?
Old 1st July 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Cathedral Guitar's Avatar
Pete's Place Audio
Vintage API 1604
Old 1st July 2012
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Schattenmann's Avatar
 

Eagerly waiting for a console with more busses/multi-track busses or, let's dream, that would be inline.

All of the above-mentioned products are surely great (especially the Neve) but even a 50K Audient or 60K Trident offer more routing flexibility.
Old 1st July 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 

+1 what Lorenz says.
ADT audio offers a new desk with everything necessary minus preamps, EQs, Dynamics. This could be paired with 500 gear for a non-compromise setup. The desk features 16 busses, inline facilities, full fledged monitorsection, etc, basically more of everything compared to any above mentioned 500 series desks. Look here:
modular analog Mixing Console
ToolMod Mixing Console - Sitemap
ToolMod Mixing Console Graphics Gallery

Since everything ADT does is manufactured inhouse they are very flexible and open for customization. I bet it´s possible to integrate 500 series racks into the console frame.
Old 1st July 2012
  #5
API Vision -- 200 and 500 series support

The API Vision can be delivered with 500 series support. Our 64-channel Vision has slots for 24 500 series modules built in.
Old 1st July 2012
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
The API Vision can be delivered with 500 series support. Our 64-channel Vision has slots for 24 500 series modules built in.
Good to know.
Too bad it's, by far, the most expensive one in the list.
Old 1st July 2012
  #7
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Schattenmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jensenmann View Post
Since everything ADT does is manufactured inhouse they are very flexible and open for customization. I bet it´s possible to integrate 500 series racks into the console frame.
Found some threads on GS where some people complained about maintenance/servicing. Think I remember someone saying that ADT consoles were a nightmare to service.

Any experience with their products?
Old 1st July 2012
  #8
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Marcocet's Avatar
Are you talking about vintage desks as well? If so don't forget about the DiMedio, Aengus, and Dalcom (sp?) consoles.

Current production wise: anything modular could prob be retrofitted, but the only ones I know that are designed to work with it are the 1608 and Tree Audio.
Old 1st July 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schattenmann View Post
Found some threads on GS where some people complained about maintenance/servicing. Think I remember someone saying that ADT consoles were a nightmare to service.

Any experience with their products?
We have an ADT C series desk and a Toolmod Rack. Service is FAR from nightmare. Desk maintenance is easy, it comes with full schematics and is made out of easily available parts, no SMD. Everything´s built with maintenance in mind featuring a lot of great solutions that I´ve never seen in any other desk (because it´d have cost money). If I need spareparts it takes me a phonecall and one day later everything´s here. If I have questions and nobody´s in the factory I leave a message and they call me back. Never had to wait longer than one day. Dunno what expieriences others have, I cannot complain at all.
Old 1st July 2012
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jensenmann View Post
We have an ADT C series desk and a Toolmod Rack. Service is FAR from nightmare. Desk maintenance is easy, it comes with full schematics and is made out of easily available parts, no SMD. Everything´s built with maintenance in mind featuring a lot of great solutions that I´ve never seen in any other desk (because it´d have cost money). If I need spareparts it takes me a phonecall and one day later everything´s here. If I have questions and nobody´s in the factory I leave a message and they call me back. Never had to wait longer than one day. Dunno what expieriences others have, I cannot complain at all.

Great experiences with ADT service here. I have a 32 channel toolmod console and toolmod racks. I had a bad power surge that took out several channels. I live in the states and did not want to send it back to Germany, so I took the channels to my local tech. ADT called my tech the same day and told him everything he needed to know to fix everything. Couldn't be happier.
Old 9th September 2013
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higure View Post
Hi,

Anyone knows about anything else? Any new console that might be released soon?
Ocean Audio - The Ark 516
The_Ark


Last edited by Bruno W; 9th September 2013 at 04:06 PM.. Reason: added picture
Old 9th September 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Tonelux 1628 can be customized with a 500 series bucket or two in place of other stuff.
Old 9th September 2013
  #13
I think its weird how the Pete`s Place console kinda just disappeared. Can`t hear anyone talking about it anymore... seems to me the best value compared to the price.
Old 16th September 2013
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
I think its weird how the Pete`s Place console kinda just disappeared. Can`t hear anyone talking about it anymore... seems to me the best value compared to the price.
Knowing how much our cost was increased by offering the 500 series support, I'm not surprised.
What surprises me is how Malcolm succeeds in hand-building The Ark for this price, in the UK.

Best
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Old 16th September 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
ClassicAPI is making one right now and looking very good...can't wait for it to be release...
Old 17th September 2013
  #16
Gear Addict
 
EisenAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higure View Post
Purple Audio Super 8 (not sure but I assume it can)
Super 8 was 1" centers for 16 channels across a 19" bucket. Not 500 series, and no EQ. We delivered a 32 channel Super 8 system with Tonelux console EQs, because these were also 1" wide.

Purple has since been developing two types of console router module (see Ox and Bust) which are 1.5" centers for 10 channels across a 19" rack, same as the 500 series. These will align with Sweet Ten racks if you want to build a 500 series modular console. The other components (fader packs, control room section, sub mixer -- each 19" and same alignment) are still in prototype and will be showing at AES NYC next month.




Meanwhile, I'd be curious to hear how you all are defining "console". Because some folks just want summing, and perhaps faders and panners. Another company that I work for, AwTAC, makes 500 series channel amps with L-C-R summing that'll daisy chain together in any 500 series rack. They're also releasing a mute and panner module, groups of which can chain together in Purple Audio Sweet Ten rack as standalone summing mixer, and I believe long-throw fader packs will happen at some point.

Old 18th September 2013
  #17
Gear Head
 
DeGomez&Garcia's Avatar
 

I can´t wait for the AES!

My dream is a console with only 500 modules:

- 500 Vu modules
- 500 Fader, pan, mute modules


Perhaps no a console, only a custom rack for the lunchboxes needed.
Old 19th September 2013
  #18
Gear Addict
 
AwTAC's Avatar
 

stop by our booth, we'll have the setup above on display!
Old 19th September 2013
  #19
Deleted 651cf92
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeGomez&Garcia View Post
I can´t wait for the AES!

My dream is a console with only 500 modules:

- 500 Vu modules
- 500 Fader, pan, mute modules


Perhaps no a console, only a custom rack for the lunchboxes needed.
The only drawback with the 500 series is that you can't have a aux module with more than outputs.

The AwTAC looks like a pretty cool unit though
Old 19th September 2013
  #20
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurelletson View Post

....The only drawback with the 500 series is that you can't have a aux module with more than outputs....
Realize that even if you do wish to build up all your processing with 500 modules, you don't really need the mixer itself to be made of 500 module components which may cause some limitations. In fact you don't even need the mixer itself to house the 500 processing modules.

You can always get something like a Speck LiLo which is a compact yet full-blown, high-end, stand-alone mixer / console, with 100mm faders, 4 aux outs, 2 stereo aux returns, 2 group busses, assorted monitoring options, inserts, direct outs, etc, etc, etc, that is DESIGNED to be used along with outboard processing... such as 500 module racks.

The LiLo does not hold 500 modules within itself, but you can easily place stand-alone 500 racks to the sides of it... lots of freedom in terms of positioning. And just use the channel "inserts" to connect the modules... or wire the modules between the outputs of your playback source and the mixer channel inputs. Sonically should be no different than otherwise, assuming you're using excellent and properly implemented cabling.

A LiLo mixer with several 500 racks off to each side (wired into the mixer) may as well be considered a "500 series mixer" (assuming you're connecting 500 series processing), only real difference being that the "500 buckets" (racks) are at the sides as opposed to being integrated into the desk surface.

Personally I prefer to have my processing modules off to the sides so I have less mixer "desk surface / area" and less "desk height" in front of me, makes it way easier to get the audio and video monitors into truly ideal spots. I do feel that audio and video monitor positioning should be the priority and all else should be worked around it... not the other way around.

The one (and possibly only) downside to keeping your 500 processing off to the sides of your faders though is that it's harder to quickly see / detect which modules are assigned to which channels. On a regular inline mixer "desk" that houses the processing, the modules are all physically lined up to the fader channel they are assigned to and thus quick and easy to find. When using 500 racks off to the sides though, adding a simple label strip under each 500 rack solves the issue for the most part. Pros and cons to everything. Personal preference.

Old 19th September 2013
  #21
Gear Addict
 
EisenAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 651cf92 View Post
The only drawback with the 500 series is that you can't have a aux module with more than outputs.
Not necessarily. The Sweet Ten racks bring out unused pins for four balanced jacks per slot, instead of two (API) or three (Radial). If you run two unbalanced signals (with a common shield) per jack, then you have 8 total I/O. More realistically, you could have a balanced input, a balanced direct output, and two stereo unbal busses if you use custom mult cabling (each jack has two pieces of cable coming out to/from adjacent jacks), or one set of unbal stereo buss if you want to daisy chain with stock cabling (jack out to jack in, etc.), which is what we do at AwTAC.

Before Paul made the lunch boxes, old API racks were open frame in the back and you'd wire them however you want, same way the consoles were wired. In this way, you could wire out busses, auxes, I/O, etc. however you wanted. The original EQ pinouts suggested as much.
Old 19th September 2013
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 651cf92 View Post
The only drawback with the 500 series is that you can't have a aux module with more than outputs.
I think Malcolm solved that problem with the Ocean Audio 500 I/P and 500 O/P
IP & OP


Last edited by Bruno W; 19th September 2013 at 10:57 PM.. Reason: picture
Old 19th September 2013
  #23
Whatever happens to Pete's Place Mark VIII? Was it ever released?
Old 19th September 2013
  #24
Gear Nut
 

The subject of this thread is "500 series consoles".

I can't help noticing that it's a bit funny that ever since Ocean Audio introduced The Ark (which is a 500 series console), a lot of people start pointing out that you can use a rack and some fader modules as well.

Yes, of course, we all know that.
But turn it any way you want : an external rack and some faders is not the same as a console.

Peace
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Old 20th September 2013
  #25
Gear Head
 
DeGomez&Garcia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno W View Post
I think Malcolm solved that problem with the Ocean Audio 500 I/P and 500 O/P
Two interesting modules.
Old 20th September 2013
  #26
Gear Addict
 
EisenAudio's Avatar
 

It is interesting. Ocean Audio is using internal ribbon cables to pass the busses through from one module to the next. This disregards the 500 series 15-pin backplane altogether by effectively adding more pins. Granted, your console can have even more I/O.

Note that I'm using buss to define any combining of signals, also known as aux or send or subgroup or summing or mix. That's what a mixing console does: it combines multiple input signals into the same output signals via common busses. This thread describes several products and systems which attempt to achieve a contemporary modular console using the limited form factor of one vintage console's equalizer, and the subsequent stock enclosures used to hold those EQs when racked separate from the console as mere outboard. It's ironic then the different solutions we must come up with to make these back into a console again while avoiding design, manufacture and sale of proprietary console frames from scratch. I suppose such is compatibility among competitors.
Old 20th September 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Realize that even if you do wish to build up all your processing with 500 modules, you don't really need the mixer itself to be made of 500 module components which may cause some limitations. In fact you don't even need the mixer itself to house the 500 processing modules.

You can always get something like a Speck LiLo which is a compact yet full-blown, high-end, stand-alone mixer / console, with 100mm faders, 4 aux outs, 2 stereo aux returns, 2 group busses, assorted monitoring options, inserts, direct outs, etc, etc, etc, that is DESIGNED to be used along with outboard processing... such as 500 module racks.

The LiLo does not hold 500 modules within itself, but you can easily place stand-alone 500 racks to the sides of it... lots of freedom in terms of positioning. And just use the channel "inserts" to connect the modules... or wire the modules between the outputs of your playback source and the mixer channel inputs. Sonically should be no different than otherwise, assuming you're using excellent and properly implemented cabling.

A LiLo mixer with several 500 racks off to each side (wired into the mixer) may as well be considered a "500 series mixer" (assuming you're connecting 500 series processing), only real difference being that the "500 buckets" (racks) are at the sides as opposed to being integrated into the desk surface.

Personally I prefer to have my processing modules off to the sides so I have less mixer "desk surface / area" and less "desk height" in front of me, makes it way easier to get the audio and video monitors into truly ideal spots. I do feel that audio and video monitor positioning should be the priority and all else should be worked around it... not the other way around.

The one (and possibly only) downside to keeping your 500 processing off to the sides of your faders though is that it's harder to quickly see / detect which modules are assigned to which channels. On a regular inline mixer "desk" that houses the processing, the modules are all physically lined up to the fader channel they are assigned to and thus quick and easy to find. When using 500 racks off to the sides though, adding a simple label strip under each 500 rack solves the issue for the most part. Pros and cons to everything. Personal preference.

That post made me smile again as I realised I'm doing exactly what you are suggesting here...

Have a look at the Ableton website: https://www.ableton.com/

There's a picture of my setup on the home page – with the 500 series rack lurking in the lower right corner...
Old 20th September 2013
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno W View Post
The subject of this thread is "500 series consoles".

I can't help noticing that it's a bit funny that ever since Ocean Audio introduced The Ark (which is a 500 series console), a lot of people start pointing out that you can use a rack and some fader modules as well.

Yes, of course, we all know that.
But turn it any way you want : an external rack and some faders is not the same as a console.

Peace
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Don't feel like you've precedences with the Ark as a 500 series console. Remember API has beat you guys in that race by decades
Old 20th September 2013
  #29
Gear Addict
 
AwTAC's Avatar
 

For clarity, you cant just go and plug faders into a 500 rack unless you have modules that have been designed from the ground up to accept an external fader. To my best knowledge the only people doing this are us and Purple Audio. Would love to know if there are any other manufacturers doing this currently.

What you can do using *only* 1. 500 racks and 2. channel amps and 3. XLR patch cables, is plug mics into them to track a record and then plug your converter outputs into them and mix your record, doing nothing in the box and winding up with a 2 channel lcr mix. The cherry on top is that were you to do this you'd have passed through roughly the same block as if you mixed on a console typically designed in 1970. It's easy to dismiss our design as "not a console" however that wants to be defined, but when you look at the block diagram on our site, it tells the whole story.

We are not building a mic pre and an eq in a box, its a historically complete input channel for a console AND includes a summing buss, when you buss a few together it's a mixer, the end.

The new panning modules add the convenience of a mute and a panning buss for people who would prefer an alternative to LCR mixing. It also makes the system 4 buss when used in conjunction with channel amp. The panners function as a stand alone summing buss so you can also just put a rack together and plug your existing mic pres into them and have a mixer from that. Lots of options, and all of it fits in 19" and is not reliant on a larger framework.

Quite obviously there are limitations to the system we are building however there is certainly an audience out there that doesnt need the flexibility of a full featured desk.
Old 22nd September 2013
  #30
Gear Addict
 
EisenAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
The one (and possibly only) downside to keeping your 500 processing off to the sides of your faders though is that it's harder to quickly see / detect which modules are assigned to which channels. On a regular inline mixer "desk" that houses the processing, the modules are all physically lined up to the fader channel they are assigned to and thus quick and easy to find. When using 500 racks off to the sides though, adding a simple label strip under each 500 rack solves the issue for the most part. Pros and cons to everything. Personal preference.
I'm intrigued. The processing is immediately off to the sides so that you can reach and adjust it without leaving mix position? Because, to me at least, just as important as setting up an ideal monitoring "sweet spot" (and I hear what you're saying about minimizing console footprint, both ergonomically and acoustically) is being able to keep your ears in it while making adjustments. I think that's part of the wisdom of a compact console having as much onboard processing as practical (i.e. think mastering rig). And if the primary channel processing is off to the sides, then where do you keep the rest of your outboard? Directly behind you?

Personally, I appreciate that all these 500 modules are making analog processing compact again, so that you stand a better chance of keeping it all right in front of you. Hence part of the impetus for 500 series consoles.
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