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Nicerizer/Tonelux/ITB level-matched comp Studio Monitors
Old 16th March 2009
  #181
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpenguen View Post
dude, one of your track has a flipped stereo....
i am not even sure this test is real....
how can you miss such mistake....
I think this guy has a hard-on for Kriz!
Old 16th March 2009
  #182
Gear Maniac
 

sorry, i didnr need any summing at that time, i was on ssl

Last edited by drpenguen; 16th March 2009 at 02:26 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 16th March 2009
  #183
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpenguen View Post
sorry, i didnr need any summing at that time, i was on ssl
maybe repost when you sober up from taking too much ssl?
Old 16th March 2009
  #184
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpenguen View Post
dude, one of your track has a flipped stereo....
i am not even sure this test is real....
how can you miss such mistake....
Really, which track has a flipped stereo? I'll be happy to revisit.

-R
Old 16th March 2009
  #185
Gear Maniac
 

i think A
not everything was flipped ,but some elements.... download and have a listen...
totally different... hard to realize, as the intro has panned stuff...
Old 16th March 2009
  #186
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

I've listened a zillion times. Tell me which element specifically and I'll listen for it. I suppose it's possible one of the stems could have gotten flipped by one of the boxes if the panning was wired backwards, or I was careless with my cabling, but I think I would have noticed.

Anyhow, I'll listen again if you tell me what to listen for.

-R
Old 16th March 2009
  #187
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

I happen to have those files right on my desktop and just gave a listen to Chicken Wings.
No panning anomaly in any of them. Drums hard left and right, Wurly midright, Sax centerish, organ behind, spread out, guitar left, tambourine right and mellotron rightish.

Listening this time I prefer A. I can't even remember which is which, LOL.

-R
Old 17th March 2009
  #188
Gear Maniac
 

well, this is very strange.....

i have down loaded them again, just to be make sure that we are talking about the same song...

and there is no problem this time

i can make mp3 of first 10 sec of my first download batch and mail them to you.... very strange....
you will see what i mean... pan is moving from side to side on two... but not on A

you have to listen to them to believe me....

its clearly a download error...
how could such download error could happen...

i must apologize , but if you are willing to hear what i have, you will forgive metutt

Last edited by drpenguen; 17th March 2009 at 01:38 AM.. Reason: picture didnt shopwup
Old 17th March 2009
  #189
Gear Maniac
 

well, that proofs one more thing... i wonder how many others had download error, and
skipped the subject....

we will never know.... surely it couldnt be only me.....

Last edited by drpenguen; 17th March 2009 at 01:21 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 17th March 2009
  #190
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illacov's Avatar
 

What's really bonkers to me is how someone managed to send a full mix thru transformers and they didn't tickle the transients so that you hear the saturation. Subtle is the last thing I think of when mixing on my unit which is a custom designed one.

A mix that demonstrates my unit's potential would cause clipping itb on the channels and master buss. However no clipping otb. I stopped a/b tests with my unit after mixing 10 different hip hop songs with 40 plus track counts and loads of low end: the summing unit won.

I knw my unit has steel core transformers pretty colored.

I think what these tests demonstrate is that mixes that "make sense" itb make no sense otherwise.

The last thing I do is use conservative levels or light compression. I usually have multiple parallel busses for drums vox bass and sub bass frequencies.

Dedicated mono channels is a must I might add. I have 8 mono and 8 stereo.

I want another 24 channels of summing to be honest. Maybe a different set of transformers but so that I can have 48 channels of summing.

You really should try to mix as little itb as possible when mixing with a summing device.

Suppose you have a 48 track mix and you mix into an 8 channel summing unit. Even with 8 stereo channels you still have to sum ITB to 8 outputs so you have crammed 6 sources per output.

With 24 or 32 channels you do way less internal summing and gain more headroom per channel of D/A.

Some of us compare consoles etc blah blah blah but in many scenarios you will see 32 channels of D/A going to these consoles or in extreme settings 96 channels.

Each source gets its own channel OTB and you get an increased level of detail and a better overall image.

Trust me I've tried the 8 and the 12 channel bit. 12 is barely passable imho.

My reason being. If you had 8 stereo stems of say a 48 track mix and you needed to turn up an instrument what gets driven first? The D/A is what Im betting on because you have a good deal of level already there. This leads to another point. If you are trying not to clip your D/A and have "added" 9db of headroom where did you get it? Recal your converters? What kind of level at the outputs where you spitting out?
This is all stuff that matters when you get into OTB because gain staging is way important for ITB but moreso for OTB.

Its much better when your sources are competing as little as possible for headroom on their respective D/A.

Your test is much appreciated though. I personally would be curious to see how you fair with more actual channels OTB and less down mixed stems.


I just have met so many folks who got very subtle results OTB and when they explain their methodology its completely out of left field. Had one guy a nice guy mixing on a console and sending the D/As to the tape returns and doing some switching past the preamp stage into the channels and he said the results were bad. It never ocurred to him to treat his D/A outputs like any other source you would send into the mic pres with their higher headroom.

I think the OP will find his working method soon enough. OTB has a lot of simple stuff that you ignore ITB like mono vs stereo channels. driving channels. When is the last time you drove a channel ITB trying to make it distort? And didn't have to worry about clipping your masterbuss? The bottom end loves it.

To the OP just for kicks try mixing just the drums on separate channels on the summing unit just the drums and nothing else. See if you can do things differently. Report back. This should be interesting. Note especially if you have bad results OTB when your ITB metering says your signal is clipping.

Just curious.

Peace
Illumination
Old 17th March 2009
  #191
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpenguen View Post
well, that proofs one more thing... i wonder how many others had download error, and
skipped the subject....

we will never know.... surely it couldnt be only me.....
It doesn't prove ****e, dude. Nobody else complained about panning problems. Maybe you should just retract your original rant about other peoples' incompetence.

-R
Old 16th May 2011
  #192
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i cant here shiat.....
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