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Nicerizer/Tonelux/ITB level-matched comp Studio Monitors
Old 6th June 2006
  #61
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
Are A, B and C in both songs in same order?
No, each one is in its own order, totally random. At this point even I don't remember which is which without consulting my notes.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #62
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergemodular
Doing a double blind test shuffling the wave files with their titles hidden I liked C>B>A but again the differences were like splitting hairs. Very close. Felt A had the slightly edgier signature of an ITB box.


C Tonelux
B Nicerizer
A ITB
Which song? Everybody, please identify.

Regarding your last comment, why do so many people think an ITB mix will necessarily be edgier? (I say this without remembering which is which)

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #63
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JSVice's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
Which song? Everybody, please identify.

Regarding your last comment, why do so many people think an ITB mix will necessarily be edgier? (I say this without remembering which is which)

-R
Screw that. What I want to know is why everyone hopes their favorite mix is the Tonelux. If it were me, I'd want my fav to be the ITB mix. No pressure to spend big $$ that way.
Old 6th June 2006
  #64
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
I suspect that one of the reasons could be relatively low number of tracks. I usually do 24+ tracks to OTB summing and seems that more crowded mixes show significant improvement in OTB vs ITB.
I guess you could post some examples of denser productions. In my experience, having a jillion tracks can clog up the works no matter what medium you're using. As for these pieces, I think "Chicken Wings" has about 22 tracks, and even more when more instruments come in later in the tune. "Blues" used minimal micing, and has about 10.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #65
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Ghost Logic's Avatar
 

My pref for Chkn Wings:

1) A
2) C
3) B
Old 7th June 2006
  #66
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bit mangler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergemodular
Doing a double blind test shuffling the wave files with their titles hidden I liked C>B>A but again the differences were like splitting hairs. Very close. Felt A had the slightly edgier signature of an ITB box.


C Tonelux
B Nicerizer
A ITB
Sergemodular,

You're supposed to say which one you like.Do you have experience with Tonelux or Nicerizer??

My choice is A,B,C for the chicken wings set.Very good repeatabilty on this set.A seems to be roomier and have a wider stereo image.Higher frequencies seem to be emphasized.
B -the lower frequencies seems to be emphasized..

For the Blues set I am not able to achieve repeatabilty..but I am at work now..will listen to them again at home on my monitors
I wish that all the folks who are so vocal about ITBvsOTB vote.Then we'll know.I am sure that someone's gonna whine now saying "ah we cant base the decision on such a small clip" ... to each his own.
Very clever decision by RKrizman to post 2 sets
Old 7th June 2006
  #67
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bit mangler
.I am sure that someone's gonna whine now saying "ah we cant base the decision on such a small clip" ... to each his own.
Very clever decision by RKrizman to post 2 sets
I'm not trying to play "gotcha" here. People should go ahead and give their opinions--there is no right answer, and these are just a couple of examples, not an exhaustive test. Everyone can learn by playing.

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
I'm not trying to play "gotcha" here.
ok ok so i know A is the SSL mix. when are you gonna post the results?
Old 7th June 2006
  #69
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
ok ok so i know A is the SSL mix. when are you gonna post the results?
What's your hurry? People are still trying to get to their real monitor speakers. Why don't you check out the second set of files. Believe me, if you don't dig in and really listen and compare in a good acoustic environment, the answers won't mean anything.

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #70
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
What's your hurry? People are still trying to get to their real monitor speakers. Why don't you check out the second set of files. Believe me, if you don't dig in and really listen and compare in a good acoustic environment, the answers won't mean anything.

-R
you prolly won't believe this but sometimes i can hear stuff on my laptop that i can't hear on S3As or BM15s w/sub.
anyway, will download the 2nd set of files. guess curiosity got the best me. thanks for posting these things.

update: heard blues files (on laptop). SO much closer than chicken wings files imo. won't be able to get to the studio til later, but dang those were close.
Old 7th June 2006
  #71
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

listened on laptop and 7509s to Chicken Wings

"A" had a 1.5k-4k bite or metallic bit to it that B and C didn't seem to have as much of, especially on opening loop. Also it seems on my headphones that "B"(turned up pretty good) didn't quite have as much excursion, yet still plenty of low end.... only had a minute, but good example... thanks for posting
Old 7th June 2006
  #72
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re the "blues" clips

in all honestly i can barely tell these apart. pretty damn close. A is my favorite...a little more bite and "there-ness" to the low end. this is listening through my lavry D/A and dynaudio bm6.

i would LOVE to hear a similar test done on a mix that was tracked to tape.

to hear more clearly what appealing qualities are either retained or lost during mix down.

either way. this is a cool test you have going.
Old 7th June 2006
  #73
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syra's Avatar
I wanted to hear this test on my crappy motherboard's inbuilt A/D ...it wasn't easy.

I think that for Chicken A is ITB and for Blues B is ITB. I don't like them.

On chicken I like both B and C with C being my favorite.

On blues I like A and C equally.
Old 7th June 2006
  #74
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funka's Avatar
Another try, for blues that time:
I think the same as for chicken wings, A tonelux, B nicerizer and C ITB. For the same reasons. And I still prefer B, sounds musical to me. A little harsh in the mids, and C too "edgy".
Again, I have only listened on poor quality headphones...I will try to listen at home with DAC1 and monitors...I will post another answers if I hear different things at home...
Old 7th June 2006
  #75
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
Tracked at Mad Dog through their old Neve. I think it's 1081-type pre's, or some equivalent. Organ OD was at my place, 184's on top into a UA 2-610, U47 fet on bottom through ? Sax was probably a 67 into coulda-been-anything.

BTW, if it sounds anywhere decent at all it's because it was tracked by Bruce Sugar.

-R
Thanks for the insight into your tracking process RKrizman , i thought the tracking sounded Neve'ish , in this case most was ! Gonna have to get myself a couple of 1081 channels , always loved their tone .
Old 7th June 2006
  #76
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krid's Avatar
 

My order of preference

Chicken Wings

1. B
2. C
3. A

Blues

1. A and C
2. B
Old 7th June 2006
  #77
Gear Nut
 

Listened on Dynaudio BM6s.

Chicken Wings, in order of preference:
A--Glued (Tonelux?)
C--Sharp (ITB?)
B--Soft (Nicer?)

Blues, in order of preference:
B--Glued (Tonelux?)
C--Soft (Nicer?)
A--Sharp (ITB?)

I have the feeling that my preferences depend on the material.
Old 7th June 2006
  #78
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

How can there be over a thousand views yet just a handful of opinions. I promise there is no embarrassing wrong answer here. I mixed these and even I'm having a hard time hearing the differences clearly. I'm just hoping to get more responses to look for some statistical consistency.

Thanks for playing,
R
Old 7th June 2006
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian
I have the feeling that my preferences depend on the material.
Interesting point.

I myself would like to hear more feedback from folks with serious monitoring systems at volume - headphones and PC speakers don't tell me much in terms of nuances.

-gil
Old 7th June 2006
  #80
Jax
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No qualitative difference to my ears. If I was listening at the studio I could probably hear a difference.

We are the only ones who should care about this kind of thing, but remember that we're making it sound great only to stroke our own egos.
Old 7th June 2006
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
that we're making it sound great only to stroke our own egos.
Yeah, as if Michaelangelo was okay with the Sistine Chapel just "looking nice".

There are lots of reasons to make a client's project sound great, not all have to do with ego.
Attached Thumbnails
Nicerizer/Tonelux/ITB level-matched comp-sistine_chapel640.jpg  
Old 7th June 2006
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Interesting point.

I myself would like to hear more feedback from folks with serious monitoring systems at volume - headphones and PC speakers don't tell me much in terms of nuances.

-gil

Worried Gil?

LOL

I have said this before but... if the majority of people are listening on PC speakers and headphones shouldn't that work here? If the differences can't be heard on what most people are going to play back on well...

heh

Anyway, I just took a listen (with headphones no less) to the blues track. First thing, very nice work Rick great sounds!

I think it is pretty easy to hear that "B" in this case has more punch in the lows and more depth of field. If you pay close attention to the toms that start the song you hear a little more room and ring in B than the others. The bass on "B" is much fuller also, much better to me. The organ stabs on "A" are a little harsh, much smoother on the others.


I am not going to say which is which (but I would like "B" to be the Tonelux because I just ordered mine) but I would say that...

"Blues"

B is first (pretty far in the lead actually, I am surprised no one else feels this way, maybe my ears are really gone?) followed by C and A last.
Old 7th June 2006
  #83
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krid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
I myself would like to hear more feedback from folks with serious monitoring systems at volume - headphones and PC speakers don't tell me much in terms of nuances.
Yeah I agree.
I used my barefoot MM27 monitors and Apogee DA16X to judge.
Old 7th June 2006
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Worried Gil?
Not at all - just want the nuances to be exposed across the entire bandwidth, is all.

Most kids I know listen to music on dope systems in their cars on CD, with enough sub-bass to choke a horse (or at least loosen their rear windows)

-gil
Old 7th June 2006
  #85
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mr jkn's Avatar
I dunno what is what here, but I will tell you what I like instead! Listening on Adam anf10´s in my living room.

So here´s my ranking:

cw: b,c,a

blues: b,a,c

..didn´t actually read any of the other comments before listening - I´m easy psyched out!

I LOVE THESE TESTS!
Old 7th June 2006
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Not at all - just want the nuances to be exposed across the entire bandwidth, is all.

Most kids I know listen to music on dope systems in their cars on CD, with enough sub-bass to choke a horse (or at least loosen their rear windows)

-gil
LOL

Yeah and rattle the trunk loose..... $10,000 car stereo in a $2000 car... pretty funny.
Old 7th June 2006
  #87
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
I myself would like to hear more feedback from folks with serious monitoring systems at volume - headphones and PC speakers don't tell me much in terms of nuances.

-gil
There's a reason why we obsess about our studio monitor speakers. This is pretty subtle stuff.

You can hear differences on PC speakers, but it can be deceptive. For instance, if you hear something as brighter or punchier it could be because that track has more low end extension and is subtly distorting your whole system.

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #88
Gear Nut
 

My favorites:

CW: B
Blues:A(pretty obious more bass)I guess Tonelux
Old 7th June 2006
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by shapemod
Blues:A(pretty obious more bass)I guess Tonelux
That's pretty funny because I just said almost the same thing in my post above about "B"...

heh thumbsup

Maybe not so obvious after all huh?
Old 7th June 2006
  #90
Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Yeah, as if Michaelangelo was okay with the Sistine Chapel just "looking nice".

There are lots of reasons to make a client's project sound great, not all have to do with ego.
Not for 98% of the people who would "buy" it. They don't give a ****.
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