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Gefell M930 or UMT70?
Old 30th May 2006
  #1
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Gefell M930 or UMT70?

Which of these mic would be best adapted as an uncolored multi purpose mic?
I'll use them as room mic. piano acoustic guitar and vocals.
Budget is around $1000.
Old 30th May 2006
  #2
Gear Nut
 
liuto's Avatar
 

I have worked with both the M930 and the UM70 (actually with the MV692/UM70 combination with transformer) and I have found the M930 rather uncolored for a LD microphone, very nice. I used it for a main microphone array in chamber music instead of my standard Neumann KM84. The UM70 is more coloured, maybe fine for certain vocals etc. I could not really use it for my applications (acoustic music).
But when you ask me for an uncoloured, universal microphone Schoeps comes to my mind. Something like the CMC5 or 6 with MK4 or MK4V cardioid capsule as a start and adding more capsules as you need them. Very smooth sounding and flexible.
Will you be using only one microphone for a room mic? I suppose a stereo pair so you might have a problem with 1000$ with all these microphones. A pair of AKG C480/CK61 might be nice as room mics at 499€ /piece here: http://www.klangfarbe.com/index.html
Hermann
Old 30th May 2006
  #3
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

schoeps is more colored than the m930. I own both. The M930 is more universal by far.



Quote:
Originally Posted by liuto
I have worked with both the M930 and the UM70 (actually with the MV692/UM70 combination with transformer) and I have found the M930 rather uncolored for a LD microphone, very nice. I used it for a main microphone array in chamber music instead of my standard Neumann KM84. The UM70 is more coloured, maybe fine for certain vocals etc. I could not really use it for my applications (acoustic music).
But when you ask me for an uncoloured, universal microphone Schoeps comes to my mind. Something like the CMC5 or 6 with MK4 or MK4V cardioid capsule as a start and adding more capsules as you need them. Very smooth sounding and flexible.
Will you be using only one microphone for a room mic? I suppose a stereo pair so you might have a problem with 1000$ with all these microphones. A pair of AKG C480/CK61 might be nice as room mics at 499€ /piece here: http://www.klangfarbe.com/index.html
Hermann
Old 30th May 2006
  #4
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I just ordered 4 M930's for toms. I think they are going to work out great.
Old 30th May 2006
  #5
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

The M930 is a great all-around studio condenser; very clean clear, big and neutral. I find that on instruments it's very useful. On vocals, however, it's maybe too un-colored, and it seems to get a bit sibilant (but not harsh). For the money, it's one of the best mics in pro audio and way better than a TLM103, for instance.

The UMT70 or MT71 (cardioid only) is equally as good for all-around use and I believe for vocals it's a better choice than the M930. It's a little silkier, smoother, creamier, puffier...all those fun sexy words. It reminds me of a good older U87. Must be the M7 capsule. It's more than a grand, but well worth it, and less expensive than any other mic in its category, like a new 87.
Old 30th May 2006
  #6
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liuto
I have worked with both the M930 and the UM70 (actually with the MV692/UM70 combination with transformer) and I have found the M930 rather uncolored for a LD microphone, very nice. I used it for a main microphone array in chamber music instead of my standard Neumann KM84. The UM70 is more coloured, maybe fine for certain vocals etc. ...
The UM70 is an older transformer based mic, so it is probably more colored than the UMT70/MT71 gefell is currently offering. The newer versions are quite a bit quieter too.

Mike
Old 30th May 2006
  #7
mds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
...

The UMT70 or MT70 (cardioid only) is equally as good for all-around use and I believe for vocals it's a better choice than the M930. It's a little silkier, smoother, creamier, puffier...all those fun sexy words. It reminds me of a good older U87. Must be the M7 capsule. It's more than a grand, but well worth it, and less expensive than any other mic in its category, like a new 87.
Cardiod only is the MT71, just for clarifications sake...I JUST recieved one (like 15 minutes ago), very excited to get the M7 in action...

Mike
Old 30th May 2006
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds
The UM70 is an older transformer based mic, so it is probably more colored than the UMT70/MT71 gefell is currently offering. The newer versions are quite a bit quieter too.

Mike
In my post, I refer to the current UMT70S and MT71S. Wonderful mics. I want a pair myself!
Old 30th May 2006
  #9
Gear Head
 

We use a pair of UMT70s here on just about everything. I don't know how I got along without them...

I prefer them in omni on our piano. I really love them as a stereo room mic (cardioid ORTF). Two mics in figure-8 mode on vocal/guitar performances work well too.

I haven't heard the M930.

Good luck with your choice.

Graham
Old 30th May 2006
  #10
Gear Addict
 

This is a bit off-topic and kind of a rediculous question, but I'm going a bit nuts over my next mic purchase which I'm going to make ASAP... looking for a kick as vocal mic primarily (I'll also use it for room micing, etc). I'm very close to ordering a Pearlman, but also considering the UMT70S. I like the idea of the U87-style frequency response from the Gefell, but I get the impression that the Pearlman is just in another league (better for vox) altogether... would you guys agree with that? I know I can Dave to tweak the Pearlman a bit to suit my needs, but it's still a bit of a shot in the dark. Not worried about the price difference.

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Old 30th May 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
comparing the CURRENT crop of Gefells, the UMT 70 sounds a lot better to me than the 930.

bigger, fuller... better.

I don't use the 930's unless I HAVE to.

whereas I use the UM70 and 71 on just about everything.


ps, the UM70 sounds better than the UMT70 as well.
Tranformer designs aren't more "coloured"... they just usually, if not almost always, sound better.
Old 30th May 2006
  #12
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcballs
This is a bit off-topic and kind of a rediculous question, but I'm going a bit nuts over my next mic purchase which I'm going to make ASAP... looking for a kick as vocal mic primarily (I'll also use it for room micing, etc). I'm very close to ordering a Pearlman, but also considering the UMT70S. I like the idea of the U87-style frequency response from the Gefell, but I get the impression that the Pearlman is just in another league (better for vox) altogether... would you guys agree with that? I know I can Dave to tweak the Pearlman a bit to suit my needs, but it's still a bit of a shot in the dark. Not worried about the price difference.

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
There's one mic that is amazing for both vox AND kick ( a couple feet away), the Soundelux U195. Someone's going to come on here and say, "No there are two. The other one is a Neumann U47 fet!" And that's true. But I would argue that the U195 is a better vocal mic for singing than the 47 fet, which was more of a broadcast mic. The 47 fet is the slightly better kick mic of the two, and the U195 is a better and more versatile mic for vocals and other things. Plus, the Soundelux is readily available and NOT three grand.

That's it, the U195, hands down!
Old 30th May 2006
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
There's one mic that is amazing for both vox AND kick ( a couple feet away), the Soundelux U195. Someone's going to come on here and say, "No there are two. The other one is a Neumann U47 fet!" And that's true. But I would argue that the U195 is a better vocal mic for singing than the 47 fet, which was more of a broadcast mic. The 47 fet is the slightly better kick mic of the two, and the U195 is a better and more versatile mic for vocals and other things. Plus, the Soundelux is readily available and NOT three grand.

That's it, the U195, hands down!
Thanks, man. What are you saying is three grand? You guys sell the Gefell for $1450 and the Pearlman is $1600.... just not sure what you mean.

I gotta say I'm surprized to hear you recommend the Soundulux over the Gefell... I would've thought the Gefell would blow the 195 away... but I appreciate your opinion. I heard the U195 compared to the Pearlman (in the popular gearslutz shootout) and there was no comparison for me.

The Gefell's are readily available, right? You were just referring to the Pearlman?
Old 30th May 2006
  #14
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcballs
What are you saying is three grand? .... just not sure what you mean.


The Gefell's are readily available, right? You were just referring to the Pearlman?

A nice minty Neumann Fet47 goes for about $3000, I think that is what he meant.
The Gefell UMT71 and 70 are readily available and are current models. While I can't vouch for the newer transformerless Gefells, I can say that I really like my older UM70 mics and if I had to choose between selling and keeping any of my LD condensers, I would keep my Gefells.
Old 30th May 2006
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher
A nice minty Neumann Fet47 goes for about $3000, I think that is what he meant.
The Gefell UMT71 and 70 are readily available and are current models. While I can't vouch for the newer transformerless Gefells, I can say that I really like my older UM70 mics and if I had to choose between selling and keeping any of my LD condensers, I would keep my Gefells.
Thanks... that makes sense (about the $3000).

Cheers!
Old 31st May 2006
  #16
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

any of the Gefells are a solid buy. The umt70 /71 isnt "better" , just different.
ALL of the Gefells are top notch in terms of quality control, craftsmanship, and design philosophy.

Ive used or owned pretty much all of their current range of products and a lot of their older designs, as the factory is a regular stop of mine(being that it is not far away).

the old um70 IS more colored than the umt70 is..that is just a fact. Id venture to say(as im sure Gefells head engineer would agree) that it WAS the implementation of transformers(among other factors) that caused a bit of coloration in the um70.

Better is in the ear of the beholder,,in the case of the um70 the desirable coloration or "mojo or sparkle or whatever" may be preferred by some over the current crop..in my case, I prefer the lower noise and somewhat better detail throughout the range of frequencies of the current product for my applications in classical recording.

generalizations=stike
Old 31st May 2006
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard
any of the Gefells are a solid buy. The umt70 /71 isnt "better" , just different.
ALL of the Gefells are top notch in terms of quality control, craftsmanship, and design philosophy.

Ive used or owned pretty much all of their current range of products and a lot of their older designs, as the factory is a regular stop of mine(being that it is not far away).

the old um70 IS more colored than the umt70 is..that is just a fact. Id venture to say(as im sure Gefells head engineer would agree) that it WAS the implementation of transformers(among other factors) that caused a bit of coloration in the um70.

Better is in the ear of the beholder,,in the case of the um70 the desirable coloration or "mojo or sparkle or whatever" may be preferred by some over the current crop..in my case, I prefer the lower noise and somewhat better detail throughout the range of frequencies of the current product for my applications in classical recording.

generalizations=stike
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I think I could do without the coloration, too (I've got other stuff that can add color). I think all I really need is a quality mic with a favorable frequency response for my voice... I'm leaning towards the UMT70S, although the Pearlman is tempting me big time. But I'm just lovin' the Gefell reputation for quality.

The path would be UMT70S -> Great River NV Pre -> CL-1B Compressor -> 2192 A/D.

Thanks again
Old 31st May 2006
  #18
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

You will love the UMT70s I am pretty sure..Or any MG mic. Good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcballs
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I think I could do without the coloration, too (I've got other stuff that can add color). I think all I really need is a quality mic with a favorable frequency response for my voice... I'm leaning towards the UMT70S, although the Pearlman is tempting me big time. But I'm just lovin' the Gefell reputation for quality.

The path would be UMT70S -> Great River NV Pre -> CL-1B Compressor -> 2192 A/D.

Thanks again
Old 31st May 2006
  #19
Here for the gear
 

i use the MT71S (cardiod only version) into a GR-NV and it sounds great for vocals, especially when you push the gain.

hope this helps.
Old 29th January 2015
  #20
141550
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory_Tate View Post
i use the MT71S (cardiod only version) into a GR-NV and it sounds great for vocals, especially when you push the gain.

hope this helps.
im gona revive this old threat cause these 2 seems like great mics? would you happen to have any samples of one or both? would love to hear.
Old 28th February 2017
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 141550 View Post
im gona revive this old threat cause these 2 seems like great mics? would you happen to have any samples of one or both? would love to hear.
Once again, I'm reviving this old thread because I'm in this exact position today!
I have about $1700 to spend on a new mic. It will be used for cardiod only, male, pop/rock vocals. Soundcloud - TKeefe.

We have an Atlantis, TLM49, Violet Emerald, Copperhead, Stage 1/2 Rockets and are looking for a new, different vocal sound for an important upcoming project. All these mics can do the job but I'm a true Gearslut and mic addict (12 step that one).

We'd like to buy a Gefell but the market is so confusing. As an avid reader here, the consensus is that the older UM70s with a transformer have a fuller sound compared with the current transformerless models. On the other, Doc makes a good point that you don't know the "health" of these old capsules in this used market. There's probably 4 or 5 available right now here and on Ebay/Reverb.

Then along comes the M1030 which uses a different capsule but although there are no examples, everyone speaks highly of it for a male vocal mic. Any thoughts, information or help in making this decision would be greatly appreciated!
Old 1st March 2017
  #22
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andersmv's Avatar
 

At one point I had a few different UM and UMT 70 gefells, they were all the black finish and looked exactly the same. I can't tell you how many times I accidentally mixed and matched between transformer and non transformer because I was in a hurry. There's a difference if you really wanted to look for it. It's one of the few modern mics where the only difference between the models is literally the transformer, which is not the case with most mic designs where a lot of other things have changed over the years. In this case, Gefell just had a damn good design and in my opinion, the transformer is not a huge part of the sound.
Old 1st March 2017
  #23
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
 

If it must be these Gefells - 930 for instruments and UM/UMT for vocals IMO.

UM is thicker and more colored, umt more transparent and has less noise.
I had them for a few years but replaced them both.
Both are good but I prefer a U87, old and new, to the Gefells.

Last edited by ABBA; 1st March 2017 at 01:27 PM..
Old 2nd March 2017
  #24
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VO Guy's Avatar
 

I bought a used UM70 several years ago. Shortly thereafter found out it needed a new capsule. It cost quite a bit....probably at least around $800 IIRC. Plus sending it over to Germany meant a long wait and additional expense. But damn it did sound good afterwards. Probably should have never sold it.
Old 4th March 2017
  #25
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKeefe1032 View Post
Then along comes the M1030 which uses a different capsule but although there are no examples, everyone speaks highly of it for a male vocal mic. Any thoughts, information or help in making this decision would be greatly appreciated!
The M 1030 is basically an M 930 in a larger body.
Old 5th March 2017
  #26
We've been buying mics for a couple decades and the only "dead" mic we ever received, new or used, was a Gefell 930T. They are quite small but since we only do our own work and a few special clients, the body size wouldn't have mattered if the sound was there. We're going to make a decision later this week when our funds are returned and frankly, still haven't a clue what to buy.

The M1030 is in the $1.6K range and that's a big market of some really nice mics. The 930T would have hopefully brought a unique flavor to our collection but a little "gun shy" after receiving a dead one. To make things even crazier, we could purchase a Warm 87, Stam 87 (when available) and Aston or add come capsules to our Bottle/Rockets - Violet VD67, used M7 (get it reskinned if necessary) or try a Soundelux U195. Full blown Gearslutitis!

Currently waiting for VK to issue a refund, they've had the dead one for over a day. You can get charged immediately but refunds, "take time". Not in the sales business, so maybe that's the way it works.

Last edited by RKeefe1032; 7th March 2017 at 09:31 PM..
Old 6th March 2017
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
comparing the CURRENT crop of Gefells, the UMT 70 sounds a lot better to me than the 930.

bigger, fuller... better.

I don't use the 930's unless I HAVE to.

whereas I use the UM70 and 71 on just about everything.


ps, the UM70 sounds better than the UMT70 as well.
Tranformer designs aren't more "coloured"... they just usually, if not almost always, sound better.
I almost entirely agree...

Except I'll use UM70 or M71 where most people would use a U87, and I'll use a M930 or M940 where most people would use a U89.

The Neumanns are great mics, I prefer the Gefells.
Old 7th March 2017
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMarc View Post
...I'll use a M930 or M940 where most people would use u89
People like u89s? <g>
Old 7th March 2017
  #29
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andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
People like u89s? <g>
Yes...
Old 7th March 2017
  #30
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hasbeen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
People like u89s? <g>

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Yes...
YES

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