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Neumann m149 and m147
Old 7th July 2013
  #31
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charlieclouser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
I own an m147. Unless you really know what you are doing with it I wouldn't recommend it. It's a tricky mic to use because it has a hard upper mid bump and an uneven top end. In the right hands it's a GREAT mic, but it ain't entry level.

The m149, a deaf blind person could get a great sound out of it. Very nice "even harmonic" kind of thing going on - smooth, full, picks up good room at a distance, takes close proximity nicely as well.
I second this. I rented both the m147 and m149 for a week along with many other mics and found that the m147 came far down the list when all the votes were in.... but the m149 was astonishing - it had a massive, humongous, larger-than-life sound that was only beaten by a vintage 251 for male vocals. For sources other than the male vocals, the m149 was the winner every time. War drums in a big concrete room? Fuhgeddaboutit - the m149 sounded massive. Love that mic.
Old 7th July 2013
  #32
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Quote:
I know the sound quality would be better than the Mouse with using the Cactus, possibly the Neumann's too
I own a Blue Mouse with the transformer in it and used to work out of a room with an M149. The M149 will eat the Mouse. Much more lively & sensitive & forward sounding.
Old 7th July 2013
  #33
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It is reassuring to note that the M149 is getting the recognition it deserves. It seems that it should not take 30 or 40 years to be accepted as an exceptional mic.
Old 8th July 2013
  #34
I sow that its old thread but might this helps.
I own
M149
M147
U87 ai
Blue bottle
dp TM1


sold dp & M147 don't like it at all comparing with the others, I recommend M149 which is my 1st to go then bottle & U87
149 never go bad whatever how much it far or close from singer whatever u compress or eq boost or cut. Ess is balanced

The sound big, smooth, airy, brilliant, work with most vocals rare to find the others better in vocals high quality sound no harsh on ears.
The bottle is more presence & airy but not smooth as 149 & I should be carful with eq & which preamp go with

U87 is more musical but not big as the others.


Good luck with your test.
Old 10th November 2013
  #35
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deleted
Old 10th November 2013
  #36
Agreed on the M147 Comments... I love mine, however It's Tricky. It's got a very OLD FASHIONED Tone to it. Almost reminds me of old AM Radio if you will. VERY Vintagey... Top Air band is almost Dark but EQ's well.. in the right hands it's amazing though. You have to know what your doing with it. But I think it's a Seriously OVER LOOKED mic... it's the ONE Mic I would NEVER sell... it's got just TOO MUCH VIBE.
Old 10th November 2013
  #37
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I recently compared a U87ai, TML49, U47, Flea 49 and the M149. I went with the M149 because not only was it a great used deal but also because it had such a versatile range of sounds with all of the 9 patterns. It has the meat in the low range similar to the U47 and Flea 49 but not the subtle responsiveness of course. Still it was close enough to a full rich tube sound that I was happy with the purchase. Surprisingly the TLM49 had a very unique smooth sound but it also sounds a little too compressed even without a compressor in the chain. It also lacked the full rich low end which I was looking for and would have to be EQ'd to make it come through a mix.

I won't kid you, the Flea and U47 sounded amazing. I just couldn't substantiate the cost.
Old 11th November 2013
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
SNIP.... Surprisingly the TLM49 had a very unique smooth sound but it also sounds a little too compressed even without a compressor in the chain..
I have found this with other members of the TLM line, and I am certainly not suggesting it is a bad thing.

Can anyone with technical expertise here speak to this? Is there something electronically happening that would cause a transformless design to have some of the qualities of a comp/limiter?

It might be an idiotic unscientific opinion, and feel free to chastise me if you feel I'm just imagining this. The one thing I enjoy about this forum is peer review and how it keeps us all in check.
Old 11th November 2013
  #39
nkf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
if you feel I'm just imagining this.
I think so (just imagination).
As a side note, I often have this 'feeling' with dynamic microphones. Used a 441 as a talkback mic recently and it sounded to the artists like a compressed radio voice, but there was nothing at all like this in the signal chain.
Old 11th November 2013
  #40
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Well, I guess the point is that if we all agree that it sounds compressed i.e. less dynamic range then the characteristic exists. Whether there is actually a compression type circuit I really don't think so. The sm57 also can exhibit this flat sound as well and I believe it is a useful characteristic that puts the sound on a rather flat plane sonically and when balanced against more dynamic sounds, can be useful, but not for everything.
Old 11th November 2013
  #41
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SteelyDani's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
I have found this with other members of the TLM line, and I am certainly not suggesting it is a bad thing.

Can anyone with technical expertise here speak to this? Is there something electronically happening that would cause a transformless design to have some of the qualities of a comp/limiter?

It might be an idiotic unscientific opinion, and feel free to chastise me if you feel I'm just imagining this. The one thing I enjoy about this forum is peer review and how it keeps us all in check.
I do not perceive that compression effect in any of the TLM models.

Regarding the TLM 49 capsule, it's a standard K47/49, althoug being just cardioid, the rear diaphragm is not connected electrically. The head grille is almost identical to the M49 and the capsule is just in the same position. There isn’t any apparent reason for compression.

Nor do I think that the fact that TLM series have no transformer can compress the sound. But this is only my opinion.
Old 11th November 2013
  #42
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You really have to have the mics side by side in a recorded shootout where you can hear the differences in their responsiveness. Otherwise, you are not going to be able to catch the compressive sounding nature of the TLM 49. Let's also change the word compressive to "lower transient response" so people don't get the wrong idea that actual compression is happening. Also, this is not a bad thing, it can be desirable in the context of a mix.
Old 11th November 2013
  #43
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani View Post
Regarding the TLM 49 capsule, it's a standard K47/49, although being just cardioid, the rear diaphragm is not connected electrically. The head grille is almost identical to the M49 and the capsule is just in the same position. There isn’t any apparent reason for compression.
The TLM49 was engineered to sound like a valve (vacuum tube) mic., so that would explain the "compression" that is perceived with this mic.

Nothing to do with being a TLM.
Old 11th November 2013
  #44
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The tlm49 has extra saturation/distortion generating circuitry in it that may be producing a compressed effect.

Dynamic mics by their nature compress the sound, one of the reasons they are used heavily in the radio industry.

The tlm103 does not sound compressed to me.
Old 11th November 2013
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
You really have to have the mics side by side in a recorded shootout where you can hear the differences in their responsiveness. Otherwise, you are not going to be able to catch the compressive sounding nature of the TLM 49. Let's also change the word compressive to "lower transient response" so people don't get the wrong idea that actual compression is happening. Also, this is not a bad thing, it can be desirable in the context of a mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The TLM49 was engineered to sound like a valve (vacuum tube) mic., so that would explain the "compression" that is perceived with this mic.

Nothing to do with being a TLM.
Very interesting arguments!

I'll try to make a comparison next weekend between a TLM49, an U87 and perhaps a SD to verify transient response.
Old 11th November 2013
  #46
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I got the PCB's in my TLM49's removed and replaced with a much simpler 60V board, removing phantom as well and putting it on a separate pin in a 4 pin plug. All done by Rens Heijnis.

That slight compression and brashness in the upper mids is now gone.
Old 27th November 2013
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDani View Post
Very interesting arguments!

I'll try to make a comparison next weekend between a TLM49, an U87 and perhaps a SD to verify transient response.
I've made a comparison between the TLM49, U87Ai and KM184.

I placed the three mics as close as possible between them and plugged them into a Millennia HV-3D. I have balanced the levels and have done three tests: spoken voice, singing loud voice and percussion (claves).

I have to admit that I cannot detect any compression in the TLM 49, nor sonic neither graphic. I might be wrong. Perhaps with the percussion a somewhat slower transient response is observed.

What has really caught my attention is the TLM 49 sound for vocals. I found it very clear and defined but not harsh at all. The sound is less "solid" than the U87, but with my own voice, I liked it more. It is an excellent mic that I seldom use for vocals (usually M149, Brauner VMX or TLM170). I'll seriously test it.
Old 27th November 2013
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
I got the PCB's in my TLM49's removed and replaced with a much simpler 60V board, removing phantom as well and putting it on a separate pin in a 4 pin plug. All done by Rens Heijnis.

That slight compression and brashness in the upper mids is now gone.
On that site he explains that there is a compressive nature to phantom powered microphones that can't respond fast enough to high sound levels. Interesting.
Old 6th December 2013
  #49
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I own both the U87 and M149. I do mostly vocal work and it's a tough call. The 87 sounds mellower on my voice but on some female vocalists it can sound a little too brittle. The 149 takes EQ like no other. I wish I could keep both forever.
Old 6th December 2013
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
I own an m147. Unless you really know what you are doing with it I wouldn't recommend it. It's a tricky mic to use because it has a hard upper mid bump and an uneven top end. In the right hands it's a GREAT mic, but it ain't entry level.

The m149, a deaf blind person could get a great sound out of it. Very nice "even harmonic" kind of thing going on - smooth, full, picks up good room at a distance, takes close proximity nicely as well.

Never really used the Cactus. I think the engineer used it on room capture for guitars on a session I was producing. Sounded good. Can't say much else.
Totally agree. The m149 is a surprisingly forgiving mic and fantastic sounding if I do say so.
Old 7th December 2013
  #51
The M149 acquitted itself well in this shoot-out:
NU-47 from Nordic Audio Labs with Audio Samples
Old 7th December 2013
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
I recently compared a U87ai, TML49, U47, Flea 49 and the M149. I went with the M149 because not only was it a great used deal but also because it had such a versatile range of sounds with all of the 9 patterns. It has the meat in the low range similar to the U47 and Flea 49 but not the subtle responsiveness of course. Still it was close enough to a full rich tube sound that I was happy with the purchase. Surprisingly the TLM49 had a very unique smooth sound but it also sounds a little too compressed even without a compressor in the chain. It also lacked the full rich low end which I was looking for and would have to be EQ'd to make it come through a mix.

I won't kid you, the Flea and U47 sounded amazing. I just couldn't substantiate the cost.
This is very interesting to me. I'm borrowing a friends m149 at the moment and I have to say I love it. I've been mulling over a Flea 49 purchase for a few weeks now.
Old 10th December 2013
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Parker View Post
This is very interesting to me. I'm borrowing a friends m149 at the moment and I have to say I love it. I've been mulling over a Flea 49 purchase for a few weeks now.
The M149 is a beast. It has never disappointed me. Most of the time, I use it without compression or EQ. It has a truly finished tone. But as we all know, different sources will lead to different performances and results.
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