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Ribbon mics?? What to get???
Old 28th May 2006
  #31
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T.RayBullard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Dont wish to harp on about this but why not add the Coles 4040 to your list? Or even replace the 4038 with it? Have I imagined this Coles 4040 or something? (beginning to question my sanity here)
you have not imagined it. The 4040 is new.

Teddy
Old 28th May 2006
  #32
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Anyone heard the 3daudio Ribbon Roundup? I'm thinking of ordering it.
Old 28th May 2006
  #33
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Quote:
you have not imagined it. The 4040 is new
Sheesh, I got mine about a year and a half ago. Have they only just started shipping it abroad or something?

Anyway, If you like the 4038 I highly recommend you hearing it (if its available there).

Cheers.
Old 30th May 2006
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
Ok, let's change the question a little bit. If you could only have one mic to pull double duty being a mono compressed drum room mic and then electric guitar mic overdubs, regardless of price, would you chose:
1. Coles 4038
2. Royer 121
3. Beyer M160
4. Other ribbon, if so which one

Thanks
Regardless of price, if anyone cares, I would pick the top of the range Wes Dooley RCA44 clone. AEA44 something or other. Also the new royer with a tube in it seems cool.

From the list above it's a toss up. COLES or Royer, can't go wrong.

I've heard mixed thing about the BEYER.
Old 30th May 2006
  #35
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timmcallister's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
Ok, let's change the question a little bit. If you could only have one mic to pull double duty being a mono compressed drum room mic and then electric guitar mic overdubs, regardless of price, would you chose:
1. Coles 4038
2. Royer 121
3. Beyer M160
4. Other ribbon, if so which one

Thanks

Coles 4038 - No question.
Old 30th May 2006
  #36
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PlugHead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
Ok, let's change the question a little bit. If you could only have one mic to pull double duty being a mono compressed drum room mic and then electric guitar mic overdubs, regardless of price, would you chose:
1. Coles 4038
2. Royer 121
3. Beyer M160
4. Other ribbon, if so which one

Thanks
FWIW,

I'd choose the 4038 out of that list, tho using a windscreen when close to any guitar amp.

Sooooo many choices for ribbon mics nowadays: I own a few, and love them all, but haven't heard the new cheaper ones, or the 4040 yet.

Beyer's have their own strengths: they have a honk/bite to them that is sometimes unpleasant - when they work they are awesome.

Royer 121 is the same - forward mids can have too much bite, but on the right source they are butter: room/FOK (back 2 feet tunneled is da bomb!) brass, strings etc - it can sound great, but can also sound humpy/stuffy at times.

AEA - I've used the R-84, and I own the R-88: these are good mics regardless of the "plastic" look. I was not as enamoured with the R-84 at first - it did sound great as a guitar cab mic, and sounded nice on fiddle and trombone and esp. good on raunchy acoustic guitar, but the R-88 is continually blowing me away. Better top end, and beautiful detailed image - it's like 'being there' at the musical event. Quite often when recording jazz/chamber, I will only use it with no other mics - virtual reality is how to describe it.

4038 is my desert island (mono) ribbon mic: it sounds great on nearly everything, and has a bit more extended top end than many of the other ribbons. Smooth is the best way to describe it. It rarely sounds bad on anything. People often complain about it being fragile, but the one I'm familiar with has never been re-ribboned, and it sees a LOT of use. Using your brain would be the best option for keeping the mic in good repair - BTW - the magnet is HUGE on this mic - very hard to get another mic close (for M/S etc) without it being "pulled" headfirst into the 4038!

All the best - hope this doesn't confuse, but help somewhat
Old 30th May 2006
  #37
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We love ribbons here at Merc, and we carry them all and love them. The Coles is a no-brainer usually. The Royer's great. The AEAs are sweet. The Beyer M160 is a classic.

BUT, have you looked the Crowley and Tripp mics? Check 'em out. They are amazing! C & T

I have been recording with ribbons since the mis 80's, in fact, and fewer people were using ribbons at that time. I was lucky enough to work in a couple studios that had modern ribbons (as opposed to old RCAs). My secret weapons for electric and acoustic guitars were Beyer M500, M160 and Coles.

People used to listen to my stuff, and ask how I got my killer guitar sounds, I'd tell 'em ribbons and they'd be like, "No way! I've never used a ribbon!" Or, "What's a ribbon?"
Old 30th May 2006
  #38
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Quote:
BTW - the magnet is HUGE on this mic - very hard to get another mic close (for M/S etc) without it being "pulled" headfirst into the 4038!
This is another issue that has been addressed with the newer Coles 4040. Can set 2 up in Blumlein with no magnet issues. They sell for about £700 here.
Old 30th May 2006
  #39
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pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
We love ribbons here at Merc, and we carry them all and love them. The Coles is a no-brainer usually. The Royer's great. The AEAs are sweet. The Beyer M160 is a classic.

BUT, have you looked the Crowley and Tripp mics? Check 'em out. They are amazing! C & T

I have been recording with ribbons since the mis 80's, in fact, and fewer people were using ribbons at that time. I was lucky enough to work in a couple studios that had modern ribbons (as opposed to old RCAs). My secret weapons for electric and acoustic guitars were Beyer M500, M160 and Coles.

People used to listen to my stuff, and ask how I got my killer guitar sounds, I'd tell 'em ribbons and they'd be like, "No way! I've never used a ribbon!" Or, "What's a ribbon?"
not really heard a lot about the Crowley and Tripp mics but i do realize they are fairly new to the world.
what is you overall take on them.
they look like they are built like tanks.
Old 30th May 2006
  #40
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Not only are they built like tanks, right here in Mass, but they sound really really good too. They have different models tuned for different applications. The Studio Vocalist is the one I've spent the most time with. It had that thick forward ribbony mid-range, and a lifted high end, more condenser-like. It's great for male vocal. The Procenium is more like a classic ribbon, like an AEA R84, and the Sound stage is ultra-flat and accurate. We have a Naked Eye here too, but I haven't tried it yet.
Old 30th May 2006
  #41
Gear Head
 

Hey Drew,
When you check out the Crowley and Tripp Naked Eye please post
your thoughts as a Male or Female Vocal mic.... I'm really looking to buy.
Thanks,Glenn
Old 30th May 2006
  #42
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pan60's Avatar
 

although i am not really in the market for another mic, but the Crowley and Tripp mic's have peaked my interest.
Old 30th May 2006
  #43
Han
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Don't forget about the Beyer M260 single ribbon. I have three of them, one which I've bought brand new although at least 25 years old, from the family of a collector who had passed.

I use them in almost every recording session, really great mics and they're less fragile than most ribbons.
Old 31st May 2006
  #44
Jtt
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+ 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by gvonbaren
Hey Drew,
When you check out the Crowley and Tripp Naked Eye please post
your thoughts as a Male or Female Vocal mic.... I'm really looking to buy.
Thanks,Glenn
Old 31st May 2006
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite
Sheesh, I got mine about a year and a half ago. Have they only just started shipping it abroad or something?

Anyway, If you like the 4038 I highly recommend you hearing it (if its available there).

Cheers.
I second this. I have had mine for over a year (I am State side by the way) and you would have to take it over my dead body with a crowbar. Really I have said it more than a few times here on GS, the 4040 is THE most over looked ribbon on the market today. Everything you want in a ribbon but more of that special thing yet it just seems to have missed the boat in the buzz department.

I know that Fletcher used to really dig his and I believe that Michael Wagener and Lynn Fuston have used and like them as well (I could have this wrong). Michael and or Lynn, if you read this maybe you can chime in?

Straight up if you have not heard the 4040 you are missing out. Do yourself a favor and put it on your list. It might not be the first pick on everything but I would not be surprised if it was the first pick on most things. Love mine.... love, love, love.
Old 31st May 2006
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I second this. I have had mine for over a year (I am State side by the way) and you would have to take it over my dead body with a crowbar. Really I have said it more than a few times here on GS, the 4040 is THE most over looked ribbon on the market today. Everything you want in a ribbon but more of that special thing yet it just seems to have missed the boat in the buzz department.

I know that Fletcher used to really dig his and I believe that Michael Wagener and Lynn Fuston have used and like them as well (I could have this wrong). Michael and or Lynn, if you read this maybe you can chime in?

Straight up if you have not heard the 4040 you are missing out. Do yourself a favor and put it on your list. It might not be the first pick on everything but I would not be surprised if it was the first pick on most things. Love mine.... love, love, love.
We like them here. We usually have at least one in-stock on the shelf at all times.
Old 1st June 2006
  #47
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Do you guys favor the 4040 over the 4038 or is it just different? Anything that one accels at that the other one doesn't? Remember, I'm only looking for drums and guitars here, not vocals. I'm set there with a U67 and U87. Great suggestions thusfar guys. I really appreciate the help and am enjoying the discussion.
Sean
Old 1st June 2006
  #48
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I'm still thinkin' Royer for drums, sure the coles will be great just like records from the 50s with RCA44s or &&s on drums. The royer might be a bit crisper. Coles to me, are go to mics for brass, saxophones and strings. I'm speaking of the 4038 only as I've never used a 4040.

No matter what you get, any high end ribbon won't suck. Just subtle differences that are subject to taste.

Have fun mic shopping.
Old 1st June 2006
  #49
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lucey's Avatar
AEA R88 is great for drums, and guitar. thumbsup

It's halfway between the beefy R84 and the thinner R92.
Old 1st June 2006
  #50
My vote would be for the Royer SF 12.
I own the Royer SF 12 and the Speiden SF 12, from which it is derived (different magnets, ribbons and transformers)
I think it is possibly the most versatile of the mics being discussed, having use mine since 1987, on almost everything you could imagine, from 94 piece orchestra to solo piano. I have used it for drum overheads (tricky, though, with bleed considerations) and gotten a great semi-close jazz piano sound, as well as classical piano. Just a very honest uncoloured mic.
Tom Jung (DMP Records) got one of the best drumkit sounds I have ever heard with just an SF 12 and a kick mic on one of his earlier recordings, sorry I can't remember the name or the kick mic, but that led me to try it as an overhead.
The piano solo, piano and saxophone and orchestra excerpts on the Royer CD are mine.
On a more recent orchestral recording in Armenia, I used the SF 24 which is slightly better still. I got the best string sound I have ever recorded.

Russell Dawkins
Old 1st June 2006
  #51
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matt thomas's Avatar
heres my 2c

I love my royer 121's
Coles sound great but I like the fact that the royers are more resilient.

Recently I tried some Royer 122's (is that the right one? the one with the preamp in it.) It couldn't handle the same spl as the 121, the inbuilt preamp started distorting when putting it right up to a guitar speaker. Also I wonder abou the logic of putting a preamp in a ribbon, because the interaction with the preamp of your choice is such a big part of the sound.

I also recently tried the AEA ribbon that is made specially for guitars (don't remember the model), I put it up, and took it down again and put the royers back up.

Narco
Old 1st June 2006
  #52
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Russel,
Thanks for joining the discussion. I have listened to the Royer demo CD and am in awe of the orchestra recording. Great job man!! That is what initially had me thinking of an SF12 as I know it would be a great stereo room mic for drums from the other excerpts on that CD. How does this mic sound on guitar?? Are you able to use only one side of it in mono, making it essentially an SF-1?? If so, I'm strongly leaning in this direction. FWIW, I strongly prefered the Coles 4038 to the R121 on sax on the Royer demo CD......I think that was in the Steve Albini section. I also prefered the U67 over the 121 on trumpet, and the schoeps over the 121 on acoustic. I wish they would have done more test with the SF1 or SF12 on the CD, because those were the samples I was most impressed with, especially the orchestra. the 121 did sound great on the strat/matchless combo and as a compressed mono room mic, so that still may be the way to go.........

Sean
Old 1st June 2006
  #53
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ripper's Avatar
 

got pairs of r84's, 122's, m160's and 4038's.

love em all!!!

if i hadda keep one pair, it'd be definitely be the 4038's.

and yes, you can get an ultra modern drum sound w/ the 403's with this thing called eq (usually a pair of chandler MKII's or a massive passive in my case) if you happen to swing that way.
Old 1st June 2006
  #54
The 121s and 122s, last I checked, have thicker ribbons than the SF 12 and don't sound quite the same, but are more robust and are more likely to handle very high SPLs, as in front of amps.

Another point - the electronics in the "powered" versions don't supply gain but function as unity gain impedance converters. The gain is supplied by the higher ratio transformers that the electronics permit.

Finally, yes, you can simply use one side of the mic for mono or go M-S and decode strongly in favor of the M. I did this once with a trombone and piano (!) 2 CD set. Almost pure M on the 'bone and very little M on the piano, which had to be very close miced to provide some separation in the very small space. The trombonist said "this is how I always thought I sounded" He had been recording professionally for about 40 years by that point as a session player and band member.

I haven't used the Royer on electric guitar but it's not my first choice for acoustic, either - too quiet an instrument.
Old 1st June 2006
  #55
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Jamz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
Anyone heard the 3daudio Ribbon Roundup? I'm thinking of ordering it.
It's an inexpensive way to at least hear many ribbons that you might not be able to personally check out. I'm glad I bought a copy. Although it can be a tease.
The CD features several ribbons. Most of which are mentioned in this thread. Not being able to try all of these mics at once the CD helps as a reference point. Nothing replaces hands on experience but when I first received the CD it remained in my car CD player for a couple of weeks while I anguished over each mic and it's recorded application.
The recordings are of drums, dist elec. git, sax, female vocal. Comes with a PDF file
containing documentation and pictures from the session. Great idea! I'm sure this was a huge undertaking for Lynn and I think his CDs are helpful. Of course one could always wish for more. Mine would have been for more instruments i.e. strings, percussion, acoustic guitar, piano, horn section but then I wasn't paying the studio and musician costs
Over the last year I've purchased several ribbons mics. Old and new, pre and post CD.
End of the day...I still have a wish list.
Here's a shot from the session.

...and
http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=1086

PS the quality of the picture is better in the PDF file. I shrunk it a bit to fit here.
Old 1st June 2006
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenh5
Do you guys favor the 4040 over the 4038 or is it just different? Anything that one accels at that the other one doesn't? Remember, I'm only looking for drums and guitars here, not vocals. I'm set there with a U67 and U87. Great suggestions thusfar guys. I really appreciate the help and am enjoying the discussion.
Sean
Then narrow it down to a 121 or a 4038. The Royer will take more SPL. Other than that, they both sound great. heh
Old 1st June 2006
  #57
Gear Head
Here's another vote for Crowley and Tripp.
When I tried the Studio Vocalist, I was totally blown away! It's the best ribbon I've ever heard. Unfortunately out of budget for myself for the moment, so I settled for the Naked Eye instead, which is also a very beautiful sounding mic!
Without a doubt, I place Crowley and Tripp's ribbons above AEA R-84 and Royer R-121. I was almost set on getting an AEA R-84 (which I've tested previously) when I heard about Crowley and Tripp - and I quickly changed my mind after testing them.
Old 1st June 2006
  #58
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Drew are the Crowley and Tripp's as durable as the Royer's?
Old 1st June 2006
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********
Here's another vote for Crowley and Tripp.
When I tried the Studio Vocalist, I was totally blown away! It's the best ribbon I've ever heard. Unfortunately out of budget for myself for the moment, so I settled for the Naked Eye instead, which is also a very beautiful sounding mic!
Without a doubt, I place Crowley and Tripp's ribbons above AEA R-84 and Royer R-121. I was almost set on getting an AEA R-84 (which I've tested previously) when I heard about Crowley and Tripp - and I quickly changed my mind after testing them.
And as per usual for Gearslutz, I have the entirely opposite view. I recently shot out a host of ribbon mics (R121, AEA R92, AEA R84, Coles 4038, Sigma, Crowley and Tripp Studio Vocalist, Beyer M160) and the C+T was probably my least favourite. I really wanted to like it as well, because it's beautifully put together (and comes in a great box), but sonically it just didn't really work for me. There wasn't a single source that one of the others didn't sound significantly better on, and the Coles 4038 was simply in another league (IMO, on this day etc etc etc......)

But then again, I prefer the AEA R92 to the Royer R-121 on almost everything too, especially electric guitars!
Old 1st June 2006
  #60
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Quote:
Coles sound great but I like the fact that the royers are more resilient
Personally I think FAR too much is being made of this. Remember any ribbons need looking after.

Quote:
Do you guys favor the 4040 over the 4038 or is it just different? Anything that one accels at that the other one doesn't? Remember, I'm only looking for drums and guitars here, not vocals. I'm set there with a U67 and U87. Great suggestions thusfar guys. I really appreciate the help and am enjoying the discussion.
Sean
The difference is just above subtle perhaps. 4040 has slightly extended top end and higher output. But I would suggest that anything that the 4038 sounds good on will sound just as good (or better) with the 4040.
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