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Dangerous 2bus vrs. Big Ben
Old 23rd May 2006
  #1
Gear Head
 

Dangerous 2bus vrs. Big Ben

I have about $1,500 to spend on gear at the moment and was hopingto get some opinions on what might give me greater bang for the buck-a dangerous 2bus or a Big Ben.
I am using a protools HD2 system and at the moment use the internal clock and sum in protools. All my mixing is done in the box.
I have thought about the folcrom because I have some nice pre's I could use it with but very rarely do I track and then mix at the end. I kind of do alot of mixing as I go and I can't dedicate one mic pre to the fulcrom full time.
Hopefully I can get a dealer to let me try out both so I can hear for myself, but I always like to get some opinions as well.
Thanks for the responses,


Dan
Old 23rd May 2006
  #2
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kingneeraj's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambalam
I have about $1,500 to spend on gear at the moment and was hopingto get some opinions on what might give me greater bang for the buck-a dangerous 2bus or a Big Ben.
I am using a protools HD2 system and at the moment use the internal clock and sum in protools. All my mixing is done in the box.
I have thought about the folcrom because I have some nice pre's I could use it with but very rarely do I track and then mix at the end. I kind of do alot of mixing as I go and I can't dedicate one mic pre to the fulcrom full time.
Hopefully I can get a dealer to let me try out both so I can hear for myself, but I always like to get some opinions as well.
Thanks for the responses,


Dan
How many I/O do you have?
if more than 16, i would suggest the big ben, but if under 16, the dangerous 2-BUS (or the manley line mixer!! haha)
Old 23rd May 2006
  #3
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GYang's Avatar
OTB analog summing will make more difference than very subtle difference from Big Ben clocked ADC.
The point is whether you really need OTB summing at all ?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #4
Gear Head
 

I have 8 I/O, I am using the 96 not the 192. Alot of people say that a good clock even with just one digital device makes a huge difference. I am going to have to try and hear them both.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #5
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jdjustice's Avatar
yes, try both if you can!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambalam
I have 8 I/O, I am using the 96 not the 192. Alot of people say that a good clock even with just one digital device makes a huge difference. I am going to have to try and hear them both.
I love the Dangerous Music gear... especially the Dangerous Monitor ST with that controller straight outta Star Trek!!

The Folcrom is passive, of course, and really "absorbs" the sound of whatever pre you pair with it. Search and you will find a lengthy thread about the Folcrom (quite recent).

As far as the Big Ben goes, yes a great master clock can really improve your sound, more than most would guess. Just as another option on the clock, consider the Antelope Isochrone OCX as an alternative. You can clock it to the Atomic Clock if you want (I'm not sure that that really helps, but it's a cool feature and probably is good for advertising)!!

Cheers,

J.D.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #6
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Just realize that the Big Ben won't improve your ITB summing.

-R
Old 23rd May 2006
  #7
Gear Head
 

Just realize that the Big Ben won't improve your ITB summing.


No, it won't improve the summing, but it should (or could) help the overall sound of the mix right?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #8
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambalam
Just realize that the Big Ben won't improve your ITB summing.


No, it won't improve the summing, but it should (or could) help the overall sound of the mix right?
Depends on what you mean. Assuming it improves quality at all, it only makes an improvement when you go from A to D or D to A. Once you're in the box, if you stay there then the Big Ben will not change anything in the session. You'll hear whatever jitter is present in whatever playback system you use, but that won't affect the files themselves. (unless you mix differently as a result of hearing things diffferently, of course).

-R
Old 23rd May 2006
  #9
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
Depends on what you mean. Assuming it improves quality at all, it only makes an improvement when you go from A to D or D to A. Once you're in the box, if you stay there then the Big Ben will not change anything in the session. You'll hear whatever jitter is present in whatever playback system you use, but that won't affect the files themselves. (unless you mix differently as a result of hearing things diffferently, of course).

-R
i have an isochrone and thought it made one of the biggest differences (of the current fads). I hear quite a significant change in mid/upper-mid clarity.

I have a dangerous LT, I did not hear a significant difference in the "summing" mind you I bought it to sum efx and other analog equipment to reduce the I/O needed as opposed to strictly for summing. But the dangerous stuff is just "transparent", it is very good stuff! it puts out what you putu in for the most part. Now getting a nicerizer is a different story, that adds some flavor and sound.

I've upgraded my monitor controller/D/A (avocet), got better clocking (isochrone) and have a nicerizer16. Even though I LOVE the nicerizer, it's probably the first I would give up, followed by clock, followed by avocet (the last I would give up).
Old 24th May 2006
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Depends on what you mean. Assuming it improves quality at all, it only makes an improvement when you go from A to D or D to A. Once you're in the box, if you stay there then the Big Ben will not change anything in the session. You'll hear whatever jitter is present in whatever playback system you use, but that won't affect the files themselves. (unless you mix differently as a result of hearing things diffferently, of course).
Sorry, I know this topic has been done alot but it always seems to make my head start spinning. Shouldn't a good clock improve overall performance,ie. keeping jitter to a minimum, not just going AtoD or D to A?
Old 24th May 2006
  #11
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambalam
Sorry, I know this topic has been done alot but it always seems to make my head start spinning. Shouldn't a good clock improve overall performance,ie. keeping jitter to a minimum, not just going AtoD or D to A?
Jitter refers to irregularities in the timing of the clock. However, inside the computer, the bits all still stay in the same order and everything continues in the same sequence, so your file is not affected.

You'll just have to believe me on this. If you don't understand, search around for a better explanation. I'm not being flip, but there are bettter people to explain this. I just wanted to warn you that adding a Big Ben won't improve your ITB mixes, so if you buy it for that reason you'll be disappointed.

-R
Old 24th May 2006
  #12
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Very true. In fact, if you go with external summing, you had better have great jitter-free converters. You could argue that the choice is either ITB summing, or the Big Ben AND 2Buss.

A better clock might improve tracking though.
Old 24th May 2006
  #13
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
Jitter refers to irregularities in the timing of the clock. However, inside the computer, the bits all still stay in the same order and everything continues in the same sequence, so your file is not affected.

You'll just have to believe me on this. If you don't understand, search around for a better explanation. I'm not being flip, but there are bettter people to explain this. I just wanted to warn you that adding a Big Ben won't improve your ITB mixes, so if you buy it for that reason you'll be disappointed.

-R

This is exactly correct.

The only way that the Big Ben might improve your ITB mixes is that you'd be able to hear what you are doing slightly better.


Old 24th May 2006
  #14
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy
This is exactly correct.

The only way that the Big Ben might improve your ITB mixes is that you'd be able to hear what you are doing slightly better.


Even that's not a sure thing. Remember, in the consumer world your mix won't be played back with a Big Ben. If you're monitoring with a Bg Ben maybe you need to reference it with ADAT converters

-R
Old 24th May 2006
  #15
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
Even that's not a sure thing. Remember, in the consumer world your mix won't be played back with a Big Ben. If you're monitoring with a Bg Ben maybe you need to reference it with ADAT converters

-R
Being that I stopped (primarily) working on what I would consider "higher resolution" monitors and spend a lot of time on NS10s (partly) for that reason, I would agree to some extent. But in regards to a better clock, you may actually make decisions that will have you process a source less or properly....at least that is my experience.

Also if mixing "mostly"in the box, yes clocking won't make a difference, but remember that if you come out once for a comp or a eq like many do, it all changes.

and this whole clocking and summing thing, IMO, isn't for yards or feet(or meters), it's for inches after many other aspects are covered.
Old 24th May 2006
  #16
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GYang's Avatar
Many good points said here.
As you are on high-end territory, proper advice would be to be ready for more and much more spending. heh
Old 24th May 2006
  #17
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huarez's Avatar
 

I just checked the Big Ben with my 192 and had been astonished how big the difference is. Was hard to give it back.
Old 25th May 2006
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambalam
I have about $1,500 to spend on gear at the moment

Dan
If you're used to mixing ITB, I'd spend the money on expanding the set up that you've already started building. Lots of people get by just fine staying ITB; its a skill that can be mastered just like anything else - you just gotta stick with it.

Buy a folcrum and some new cables, plug it all in and in 5 minutes you'll be thinking about what to buy next.

Instead, think of all the software you can buy with that cash - it'll keep you busy for months.

And remember, you can always send your mixes or sub-mixes back through your pres to warm them up a bit.
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