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UMMM your gonna love this
Old 22nd May 2006
  #1
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farjedi's Avatar
 

UMMM your gonna love this

hello fellow gearslutz...probably gonna get laughed out of town but I need you high enders to sample the noise out of your swankiest gear and post it up.
I am experimenting with mixing device noise into my ITB projects to see if it helps blur and blend the sound a bit. I got the idea off cranesong who released their dither cd which I haven't heard but would like to. Anyway I figure the standing noise of, say, a neve console might be just as good!
I know you dudes with actual baddass gear will scoff but it's all in the name of science...
Old 22nd May 2006
  #2
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You buy high end gear to lower the noise floor ... unless you already have high end gear, your budget stuff has more than enough noise floor already. You would have to boost these noise floor samples unnaturally just to be able to hear them over your existing noise floor.

And then the problems begin. For example - there will be some 60Hz hum in these noisefloor sample. Maybe you are in a 50Hz AC country? Even if not, there will be nasty phase issues between their hum and your hum.

If there was any merit in noise, then the pro's would all be using Behringer gear.

If you want ambiant noise, try something much nicer, like forests or oceans or something. Even white noise from a synth - maybe with a slow phaser.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #3
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Chris Parsons's Avatar
 

I've been useing my 77dxs a lot lately. It's almost like recording to tape!
Old 23rd May 2006
  #4
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farjedi's Avatar
 

anyone got any tape hiss? heh
Old 23rd May 2006
  #5
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farjedi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Parsons
I've been useing my 77dxs a lot lately. It's almost like recording to tape!
Chris, what is this?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #6
Lives for gear
 

It's a classic RCA ribbon mic. The hiss will be coming from the preamp, more than the mic. It's just that ribbons need a lot of preamp gain.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Just turn an AM radio off station and record the hiss.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 

throw in a cassette for hiss! better yet, bounce your mix to one....
analog for days
-brian
Old 23rd May 2006
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Regarding the noise of a Neve console, maybe the crosstalk from the
passive summing buss would be more interesting?

I asked a question about it at PSW here

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...leed#msg_15639


with some interesting responses.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 

I really think that adding noise to a noisy low end system to emulate a relatively noise-free high end system is going the wrong way ...

But I do think that there is something about the randomness of analog consoles that digitally perfect DAWs lack.

I had an epiphany moment a while back when I realised that analog devices - even the very best - use components that have tolerances. A 1% tolerance resistor is considered very good. For this reason - levels, pans, eq curves, nothing in analog is 100% perfect.

Compare that to a DAW, which does everything it's told with 100% precision. (OK - we all now digital isn't 'perfect' - but bear with me and forget the semantics).

This randomness, and leakage, and noise and distortion all make a more interesting sound. I realised this when my crap Mackie mixer was turning mono samples into stereo without my consent.

The endless debates about analog summing tend to focus on noise and distortion. I don't think that is the whole story. I think this randomness and imprecision definately gives a 'wider stereo mix' that sounds pleasing.

E.g. - if we pan a vocal to the centre in a DAW, the left and right sides are perfect digital clones of each other. Accurate, but boring. Send that through anything analog, and suddenly each side is slightly different in level, slightly different in eq. Very subtle, but it can never be perfect boring clones - due to 'tolerance' of components, and randomness of electron flow, brownian motion, voodoo etc.

I suggested this idea to the KVR plugin community and was booed and hissed. Except for one developer who makes excellent products, and said that he was experimenting with assymetry to get an analog vibe.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #11
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I also predict that this thread will be moved to the low end theory forum right about ...
Old 23rd May 2006
  #12
Gear Addict
 

when mastering my last record/cd at john golden mastering he took random spots of hiss and noise floor off of the master tapes and used them in the mastering process to flow inbetween songs, so as to make the spaces inbetween songs not so overly quiet and shocking to the ears.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #13
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tree montgomery
when mastering my last record/cd at john golden mastering he took random spots of hiss and noise floor off of the master tapes and used them in the mastering process to flow inbetween songs, so as to make the spaces inbetween songs not so overly quiet and shocking to the ears.
We used to use white paper leader between songs (instead of plastic) for the same reason. For those of you wondering why we didn't use blank tape instead, the reason is............. I'll let you guess.
All the old guys will know, let's see if one of the young people here can figure this out.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 

So you can see where each song starts and ends?

Because paper was cheaper than mag tape?

I would have thought paper - being non ferrous - would be much quieter than blank mag tape ... also less likely to pickup up bleed through and create those ghostly pre-delays ... ?

Would paper act as a tape head cleaner?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by farjedi
hello fellow gearslutz...probably gonna get laughed out of town but I need you high enders to sample the noise out of your swankiest gear and post it up.
I am experimenting with mixing device noise into my ITB projects to see if it helps blur and blend the sound a bit. I got the idea off cranesong who released their dither cd which I haven't heard but would like to. Anyway I figure the standing noise of, say, a neve console might be just as good!
I know you dudes with actual baddass gear will scoff but it's all in the name of science...
I don't think it's funny - I think it's sad. I don't think noise is what you're missing.

Quote:
You buy high end gear to lower the noise floor ... unless you already have high end gear, your budget stuff has more than enough noise floor already. You would have to boost these noise floor samples unnaturally just to be able to hear them over your existing noise floor.
No, the original poster is correct. I've made some DAW recordings with pretty crappy gear with much less noise than a lot of older commercial recordings. Recently, I was reworking a 10 year old song of mine so I pulled out Green Day's "Basket Case" for comparison - man that thing is noisy! I always 'loved' that nice swell of noise at the beginning of one of the versions of Depeche Mode's "Happiest Girl" - not sure which cause they made 50,000 remixes of all their songs. Personally, I believe the lack of noise we are now capable of is a GOOD thing.

The obsession with nostalgic distortion points to another problem that's never been addressed. Logic tells me that either source sounds have never been captured very well at all, or people just don't like what the the music really sounds like! I think efforts should be made to PROGRESS in one or both of these directions, rather than perpetuating practices that really just cover up the problem and create other undesirable side effects.

Thank you.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #16
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger
So you can see where each song starts and ends?

Because paper was cheaper than mag tape?

I would have thought paper - being non ferrous - would be much quieter than blank mag tape ... also less likely to pickup up bleed through and create those ghostly pre-delays ... ?

Would paper act as a tape head cleaner?
pretty good, kiwiburger. Actually the paper was pretty rough and did have a decent amount of noise, but a little quieter than magnetic tape. using a diagonal splice the noise just slipped down a little and prevented the drastic change (which in some instances could sound like a pop or tick).
The big reason was the print through that you mentioned. Many songs start with a definite, loud sound and with blank magnetic tape in front of it the pre echo was a real problem.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Thanks - very interesting.

I think there is something comforting about a bit of noise - although I tend to do everything I can to get rid of it.

Somebody once wrote (and sorry to misquote) to the effect that an artist can paint many colors onto a canvas. Even though the canvas may be white, there is still a use for white paint, because white paint is different from just leaving the canvase blank.

I think there is some merit in the noise idea - just not sure how best to apply it. It could become like those annoying vinyl hiss effects on some rap records - a gimmick at first, and then annoying thereafter.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by farjedi
I got the idea off cranesong who released their dither cd which I haven't heard but would like to.
I heard it. You're not missing much. the first couple of songs are OK, but after a while it all starts to sound the same.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #19
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excellent!heh
Some interesting comments allround. Eyesore, is it sad to experiment? This may be a bore to some but I only wish to try out an idea. Of course if I had the gear it wouldn't be a consideration. I want to see how far ITB can trick the mind.
Move me to low end now.....
Old 23rd May 2006
  #20
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

I thought perhaps this was heading towards a musically creative idea. Something similar to glitch music which incorporates digital noise like skipping and pops and clicks as a basis of the peice...


It could be bluntly called "The Sound of Analog"
Old 23rd May 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

You should check some of it out... Its actually pretty cool... Stuff like The Notwist and Portishead... minimal electronica, trip-hop whatever you wanna call it...
Old 29th May 2006
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by farjedi
excellent!heh
Some interesting comments allround. Eyesore, is it sad to experiment? This may be a bore to some but I only wish to try out an idea. Of course if I had the gear it wouldn't be a consideration. I want to see how far ITB can trick the mind.
Move me to low end now.....
No, experimentation is great. I'd just like to see someone looking forward instead of back. I'd like to see recordings get better. Sure current ITB platforms are far from perfect, but so were earlier analog platforms.

So, again, do we just not like the way the music really sounds or what? There's definitely room for innovations there... ..Or is what we record still so far removed form the source that people feel the need to add other noise and distortions in place of what was lost? I suspect it's a little of both?

If we address the real issue here, we can begin to progress.
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