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How do you record drums for New Metal bands?
Old 22nd May 2006
  #31
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin
Here's a clip of my band that we're tracking at this moment.


These are the drums (nu-metal style)


No triggers except a background snare combined with my original. You can barely hear it but if I took it away, you would notice some of the snap is gone.


ps: Don't mind my ****ty ghost guitar track... I was paying more attention to the drums and realized that I am supposed to play guitar while he's tracking and I end up screwing up.


OH were XY


processing was 1-3 db of compression on most mics... some maybe 1/2 to 1 db. and Eq/comp on all drums was done while tracking. I used R-Comp on the mixbuss to make it a bit more exciting for listening purposes.

drums were recorded in a treated 10X10 room with 7 1/2" foot ceilings.

I find Eq'ing first then compression makes this happen better for me.



It's mostly all in the drums and drummer. The rest is Eq and Compression.

If the drums or the drummer can't cut it, then you'll have to use samples.


Good luck!

Jason

sounds good Jason although I can hear the sn sample flamming in spots and the OH's are not my favorite but with a 7.5 foot ceiling you are kinda limited in that area..KIK sounds good as do the Toms.thumbsup
Old 22nd May 2006
  #32
Gear Nut
 
unsilpauly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman720
when it comes to metal drums i tend to prefer smaller kits since they generally sound better and come with better drummers haha. anyhow for the extreme sessions i usually close mic just about every cymbal no farther 12-15 inches from the cymbal with km184s, 86s, 414s or whatever. I prefer the 184s though. if there is alot of cymbals all around the kit i'll split the overheads into two pairs (4 184s usually) and mic between two cymbals from 12-15 at most to pick up both cymbals and keep the OH placement symmetrical between it all so the imaging stays intact. i always close mic chinas, hats and rides as well. toms always get 421s, and the snare gets a dynamic on top along with a condenser (57, i5 beyer 201, 421 etc... and 414 or ae 3000). Kicks i use re20s inside about 6-8 from the beater head and a 414eb on the outside where i feel the most air from the kick. i usually have anywhere from 1-4 sets of stereo rooms, always with royers, 87s and 414s. the royers usually get up about 15 feet and are in a spaced on in from the kit about 25 feet back. the rest are usually xy setup centered at the center of the kit with distance double for each set.

i aslo record a dry trigger signal on the kicks for replacement. sampling the kit is a must as i like to try and use the samples of the kit since it makes for better replacement later if the tones are great.

hope that helps.






OK, first of all i record alot metal projects for labels like roadrunner, century media, victory etc... Let me first say there is ALOT of producers that do rely and are know for huge drums based largely on triggers. I've done some records recently that i am extremely happy with the tones, and little or no sample were used. The ONLY reason i got away with using no samples is because the drummers were flat out ****ing GREAT. Im talkin bury the click, perfect hits nearly every time drumming that we only expect from the big studio cats. Unfortunately though, the majority of drummers out there cannot play metal and meet the demands that a good drum editor has set for them. And when they do try to meet those goals, they either lose time, hit soft or sloppy or are just plain bad. I dont know about you, i like my records to sound great, and if that drummer is playin ****ty im gonna quantize him and throw samples on the kick and snare (i hate tom triggers and only resort to them in the worst cases). Having said that, its beyond me why so many engineers that NEVER record bigger metal projects cant understand why the drum sounds are largely based on samples in this genre. Have you listened to the guitars? you get a great natural drum sound to cut through 4 tracks of detuned heavily distorted guitars with another track of distored bass and i'll glady you give you my studio. Everything in this genre is HYPED. the guitars are huge, the drums are eqd to hell and everything is extreme, and there is a handful out there doing it well and doing without hurting everybodies ears.
well put jason. this guy knows what he is talking about! cant wait to hear the new trivium and bury your dead. keep up the good work.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #33
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

hey, if anybody wants a valium just let me know, a few of you guys are a bit, ah, edgy!

y'know, in defense of our less talented/lazy/whatever kin, i respectfully submit that suck musicians have the right to play and make music too. sure, they have insane ideas about the way they want things to sound vs. the sounds they actually make, but that's just ignorance. i had similar delusions once upon a time. hell, sometimes i still do.

we're the educated ones here, recording is *our* passion, and in the course of pursuing it we not only learn a billion times more about what the process can and can't do, we also tend to know more about musicianship than the average musician.

consider going easy on these kids. at the very least, you'll have less stomach acids.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 22nd May 2006
  #34
all this talk about metal and samples made me wonder if anyone here knows about slayer´s reign in blood. one of my favourites when it comes to metal and the drums sound real. there can´t be samples on that one or what?
Old 22nd May 2006
  #35
Its not about playing, Kit or recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin
Of course that would be best but... when you have to make it work with what you got, you gotta do it some way or another.

Right?


Some of these bands don't have the budget for session drummers or, they just don't want to do it.

improvise.



Jason
The current project is recorded in Europe's best drum room expertly mixed in New York states best studio with a Pearl fully endorsed player playing his signiture kit.
Most drum magazines have this drummer in the top 10. It sounds awesome without the samples, its just about what the mix sounds like when the guitar is just as awesome.
Regards Mark
Old 22nd May 2006
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
dirren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilgrill
all this talk about metal and samples made me wonder if anyone here knows about slayer´s reign in blood. one of my favourites when it comes to metal and the drums sound real. there can´t be samples on that one or what?
With or without samples - insanely talented drummer (Lombardo).



/Matt
Old 22nd May 2006
  #37
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
I dunno I guess I never heard any of his records.
The 80's stuff I listen to was triggered

Been then again if you have great gear and a great drummer you shouldn't have to sample. There are no triggers on Pornograffiti??
No! None on Pornograffitti! What other records are you referring to?
Old 22nd May 2006
  #38
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmec
The adage "Ours is not to reason why ours is but to do or die".
If I want to work under all the pressures that the industry places on one and I produce an album with less perceived loudness the A&R guy is not going to want
my services again in the metal field. -snip-
So, just wait a couple of weeks, he will be fired by then anyway heh heh heh
Old 22nd May 2006
  #39
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins
Every major metal cd from 1983 had samples
AMS had a sampler in 1982.

Sure some heavy thrash band didn't trigger but everyone else did . All the hair
bands triggered since 83
I have to respectfully disagree. I did one or two metal albums in the 80s and NONE OF THEM had the drums triggered except for the toms on Saigon Kick's first album. I did that because everything was recorded in a small room at the same time and the guitar amps and bass amps would bleed so much into the tom tracks that you couldn't even hear the toms. I used a Forat F-16 to trigger.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #40
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener
Forat F-16
jeez. dinosaur. i used to have a forat 9000.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmec
The current project is recorded in Europe's best drum room expertly mixed in New York states best studio with a Pearl fully endorsed player playing his signiture kit.
Most drum magazines have this drummer in the top 10. It sounds awesome without the samples, its just about what the mix sounds like when the guitar is just as awesome.
Regards Mark

That must have been amazing.


unfortunately, a lot of us don't get even near a dream session like that.





Jason
Old 22nd May 2006
  #42
Dream maybe Nightmare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin
That must have been amazing.


unfortunately, a lot of us don't get even near a dream session like that.





Jason
The pressure is very high and emotions run wild, every second costs the earth.
Bob Caggiano is a hero. Glad to say if anything goes wrong its not my direct fault.
There is a level where the fun goes clean out of it.
Regards.•:*¨¨*:•. ¸¸.•´¯`•.Mark Fairfax-Harwood, Engineer Springvale Studios
Old 23rd May 2006
  #43
Gear Head
 
socologan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benelli
put a royer 121 (it's perfect for this, if not, a 414 TL in figure 8 will do) upside down, straight, but turned at a 45 degree angle from the head of the kick drum.
this sounds very very cool...thanks a lot for sharing...definitely gonna try this next time we do drums. you rule!
Old 23rd May 2006
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Greg Wells's Avatar
Terry Date turned me onto the Remo Falam snare head, a virtually unbreakable head that sounds very aggressive when whacked. It's pretty thick.. the opposite of an Ambassador head.

When I recorded Slipknot's tour de force drummer Joey Jordison on the Otep record I did, I observed that he didn't hit very hard, and used plastic or nylon tipped sticks. A very controlled drummer. The drums still had lots of round tone from not getting choked by heavy pounding, and the plastic tips provided a harder attack... the best of both worlds. He liked playing my Black Beauty snare, tuned pretty high.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Purusha's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by socologan
this sounds very very cool...thanks a lot for sharing...definitely gonna try this next time we do drums. you rule!
I am still waiting to see some photos from such session...
Old 11th June 2006
  #46
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsilpauly
well put jason. this guy knows what he is talking about! cant wait to hear the new trivium and bury your dead. keep up the good work.
haha i just saw this thread again. i'm not jason, my name is mark lewis. i'm actually jasons engineer here at audiohammer. jason produces, i engineer. sorry for the confusion. haha

glad i could help!
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