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Harrison PP1 Console 500 Series Preamps
Old 2nd March 2012
  #1
Gear Head
Harrison PP1 Console

Anyone out there familiar with these guys? Have an opportunity to purchase one, but can find shockingly little info out there about them.

Any insight into their relation to the more classic Harrison stuff would be really welcome. Thanks
Old 24th April 2015
  #2
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Bump
Old 25th April 2015
  #3
That's their film scoring model. There were used at Warner Bros, I installed Uptown moving faders in them decades ago. Contact Harrison for a full manual.
Old 25th April 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
That's their film scoring model. There were used at Warner Bros, I installed Uptown moving faders in them decades ago. Contact Harrison for a full manual.
Hey Jim, couldn't ask for a reply from a more knowledgeable member. Thanks so much!

I just bought the PP1 sidecar that was at WB (22 returns with EQ, 16 assignable busses, 2 auxes). It has no pres, which is ideal for me as I prefer the flexibility of outboard pres....plan to use mostly CAPI VP28's with this board.

Anyway, Sam at Harrison has given me some info, but not much. He asserts that the Uptown Automation is such an early implementation, it's probably not worth messing with. Your thoughts on that?

Also, apparently the EQ is the same as in the MR2 and "actually is a lot better than the 32C EQ" (his words). Isn't the hugely popular GR/Harrison 32EQ based on the 32C equalizer? Seems like it would be tough to get "a lot better" than that?

Last edited by jdurango; 25th April 2015 at 06:49 PM..
Old 25th April 2015
  #5
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Couple pics....any info you have about this guy would be incredibly helpful. I plan on recapping it, starting with the master section, cleaning all pots, replacing as necessary and resoldering cold joints as needed. It's in decent working shape, but definitely needs some love.
Attached Thumbnails
Harrison PP1 Console-00404_82xp2lgs4eo_600x450.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-00w0w_adil40xgpnb_600x450.jpg  
Old 27th April 2015
  #6
Drop in some National LME49720NA opamps for the 353's and 5532's. That will lower noise, increase slew rate, lower THD. They are also precision parts, if DC offsets are 5 mv or less, short out the el cap that follows it.

Harrison is a complete design that included feedback phase compensation caps and local .1 uf psu bypass caps, you can drop in those improved chips without further mods.
Old 27th April 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Drop in some National LME49720NA opamps for the 353's and 5532's. That will lower noise, increase slew rate, lower THD. They are also precision parts, if DC offsets are 5 mv or less, short out the el cap that follows it.

Harrison is a complete design that included feedback phase compensation caps and local .1 uf psu bypass caps, you can drop in those improved chips without further mods.
Hey Thanks a ton Jim! Will order those chips now! Any other chips I should demo out while I'm at it? I generally like a pretty colored sound. Thanks so much for your help! It's great to get advice from a real pro, especially one that has probably worked on this specific board!

Last edited by jdurango; 27th April 2015 at 06:30 PM..
Old 27th April 2015
  #8
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Also, don't suppose if you know if the VCA's are Valley People or the crappy DBX ones, do you?
Old 27th April 2015
  #9
Quickest way would be to have a look but i'd say they are Valley People.
Old 27th April 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyglover View Post
Quickest way would be to have a look but i'd say they are Valley People.
That's what I'm hoping. The console is in LA, being shipped to Seattle. I qualified it over the phone....seller is an awesome guy, very honest and upfront. For the price I paid for it, I'll be more than happy if only half of the channels, groups and auxes work! Supposedly they ALL work, just need to track down the pin-outs for the aux buses on the back panel, which should be pretty easily with a scope or DMM.
Old 28th April 2015
  #11
Gear Nut
 

My friend has over 100 PP1 modules from a film console.
Check Craigslist Inland Empire if interested.
Old 28th April 2015
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winetree View Post
My friend has over 100 PP1 modules from a film console.
Check Craigslist Inland Empire if interested.
Yeah, I saw those! I'm planning on grabbing a few modules to have as parts. I have a feeling some of those components are likely unobtainium and worth having around. Plus IIRC, Harrison only made around 15-20 of those consoles, which means there aren't a lot of parts out there if needed.

Anyway, thanks so much for everyone's help! Any more information anybody has about this board would be GREATLY appreciated! Like the OP said, there is surprisingly little info out there about these cool boards! Even Sam @ Harrison seems to have given up on responding to my queries....I have a feeling this was a very rare board with very little known about it.

Thanks again fellas! More pics to come when I take shipment and begin the recap/restoration!
Old 28th April 2015
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Drop in some National LME49720NA opamps for the 353's and 5532's. That will lower noise, increase slew rate, lower THD. They are also precision parts, if DC offsets are 5 mv or less, short out the el cap that follows it.

Harrison is a complete design that included feedback phase compensation caps and local .1 uf psu bypass caps, you can drop in those improved chips without further mods.
Hey Jim,

Just heard back from Harrison and it looks like those amps may not work.

"The PP1 input module had quad op-amps in it, so this dual one will not work unless there is a quad version of this IC. The PP1's also had +/- 18 volt power rails, and some IC,s are limited to +/- 15 volts. I would not recommend changing anything until you can experiment with the console.
Sam."
Old 28th April 2015
  #14
LME49740NA quads should work. Brown Dog makes adaptors to use a pair of SOIC duals to fit a quad layout as well.
Old 28th April 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
LME49740NA quads should work. Brown Dog makes adaptors to use a pair of SOIC duals to fit a quad layout as well.
Haha, that was gonna be my next question, if I could short some legs and use two dual op amps. Will check both of those out! Will check the voltage rails coming in to those chips and make sure they don't exceed specs on the LME49740NA data sheet.

Will check DC offset too.
Old 28th April 2015
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
LME49740NA quads should work. Brown Dog makes adaptors to use a pair of SOIC duals to fit a quad layout as well.
The TI quad version of that chip is rated for 2.5-17v, but that's +/-, so 18 should be close enough? Also, doesn't look like it would add draw at the power supply, which is good.
Old 28th April 2015
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdurango View Post
The TI quad version of that chip is rated for 2.5-17v, but that's +/-, so 18 should be close enough? Also, doesn't look like it would add draw at the power supply, which is good.
Oops, that's input operating voltage. Max input voltage is 35v.
Old 3rd September 2015
  #18
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

Me too!

Hi guys!
I'm so glad this thread is recent. I just picked up one of these mixers and got the frame moved into the studio yesterday. I'm so stoked! Looks like mi e is 27 channels into 8 groups... My first question is about master section... I was worried for a second that I didnt have one... But I think I do... I just don't think it has faders...can you tell me about your master strip? Also like a monitor strip? I have a few different modules... I'm just wondering how the PP1 works I think I am complete. I'll buy the manual, but can't quite afford it for a little while, right now, its cleaning and the basics I can do without that manual. I hope the neve flying faders dont get in the way...

I just realized... What I don't have... The LRC switch card :(

Next is the power, I have terminals for +-18 and +-15. Every thing I've read tells me it's +-18 only, so I am assuming its the automation that wants the 15. (Flying faders)

Maybe somebody can tell me if/how the faders will work without a computer? Hopefully they just work like a VR?


There's some pics here... Nobody really hopped on that thread, being that yours is so recent I might just jump in Here... I've never been in the high end section, I feel out of place.

Couple pics.
Harrison PP1 console, the beginning.

Last edited by johnblue; 3rd September 2015 at 05:05 PM..
Old 3rd September 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnblue View Post
Hi guys!
I'm so glad this thread is recent. I just picked up one of these mixers and got the frame moved into the studio yesterday. I'm so stoked! Looks like mi e is 27 channels into 8 groups... My first question is about master section... I was worried for a second that I didnt have one... But I think I do... I just don't think it has faders...can you tell me about your master strip? Also like a monitor strip? I have a few different modules... I'm just wondering how the PP1 works I think I am complete. I'll buy the manual, but can't quite afford it for a little while, right now, its cleaning and the basics I can do without that manual. I hope the neve flying faders dont get in the way...

I just realized... What I don't have... The LRC switch card :(

Next is the power, I have terminals for +-18 and +-15. Every thing I've read tells me it's +-18 only, so I am assuming its the automation that wants the 15. (Flying faders)

Maybe somebody can tell me if/how the faders will work without a computer? Hopefully they just work like a VR?


There's some pics here... Nobody really hopped on that thread, being that yours is so recent I might just jump in Here... I've never been in the high end section, I feel out of place.

Couple pics.
Harrison PP1 console, the beginning.
Hey John, that's a cool looking console! If you can get it working, I think you and I may be in a VERY small group of people in the world who have WORKING Harrison PP1 consoles! The fact that you have the power supply and a master section is a huge plus.....and $50/channel is a STEAL, considering the Great River Harrison 32EQ, whichis based on that circuit, is about $800 alone.

Anyway, to jump in and address some of your points.

1) The automation should require a separate power supply (at least it does on mine....Uptown installed by @ JimW illiams in the 90's)

2) The automation is probably a useless dinosaur. Not sure how it works with Neve or GML, but for Uptown you need an old 386 or 486 comp running special software on DOS, plus a controller card installed. I mean, if you REALLY want that automation, it might be worth looking into. Personally, too much hassle for me.

3) It looks like you have a decent master section with faders for each group. Mine simply has a 1 slot master section with a single stereo fader for the main outs. The 16 group master outputs were designed to be controlled via the automation, hence no need for VCA's (at least in my board).

I kinda wish I had faders for my group ours, but the lack thereof makes the desk very compact (it's on a rolling/tilting frame). I'll probably use a LittleLabs Red Cloud 8 chan attenuator box for master levels.

4) Again, master section....if you mean a full-featured studio type section with different monitor options, talk back, cue mix monitoring and all that, I think you're outta luck. These weren't really those kinda mixers. They were for post production/mixing....not intended for studio use.

5) The lack of pres is actually a plus for me. C'mon, let's face it, with all the amazing preamp options out there these days, who wants to use console pres (unless we're talking super high-end Electrodyne or Neve or API or something).

I'm actually having a 2 x 11 space 500 series rack/monitor shelf built above the group assignment "bridge", basically converting my PP1 into a 500 series modular console. I'd MUCH rather use my 500 series pres than any stock Harrison offering ever made.....hands down.

6) I bought a ton of spare input modules to be used as parts (like you, I'm also doing a restoration and recap). I think I have 12,which is WAY more than I need! If you'd like to buy any, let me know....I'd let em go pretty cheap.

Anyway, glad to see there's someone else out there with an actual console who's interested in putting it back in service!
Old 4th September 2015
  #20
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

Thanks for all that info,
I've talked with the guy in hemit with all the spare parts, he has alot of channels left, I asked him about everything else he might have... He said he has a bunch of other small modules too, his name is Steve. He isn't too far away from me, so hopefully sooner than later I will actually go see those boxes of parts and I'll keep you in mind when I do.

I'm taking my first look at a channel, #27 here... And I don't see any 5532s or anything like the ones that Jim recomends switching... What I do have an abundance of are Harris 4605 chips all over the place.

Looks like somebody beat me to the punch in this regard... Can you take a picture of a stock channel? I want to see how it compares to what I have here. As far as i can tell, this desk has been lovingly cared for.

I don't know that much about the sonic differences between chips... How are these types?
Old 4th September 2015
  #21
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

One channel
Attached Thumbnails
Harrison PP1 Console-img_20150903_190659085.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20150903_190631849.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20150903_190617449.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20150903_190627248.jpg  

Last edited by johnblue; 4th September 2015 at 04:55 AM..
Old 5th September 2015
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnblue View Post
Thanks for all that info,
I've talked with the guy in hemit with all the spare parts, he has alot of channels left, I asked him about everything else he might have... He said he has a bunch of other small modules too, his name is Steve. He isn't too far away from me, so hopefully sooner than later I will actually go see those boxes of parts and I'll keep you in mind when I do.

I'm taking my first look at a channel, #27 here... And I don't see any 5532s or anything like the ones that Jim recomends switching... What I do have an abundance of are Harris 4605 chips all over the place.

Looks like somebody beat me to the punch in this regard... Can you take a picture of a stock channel? I want to see how it compares to what I have here. As far as i can tell, this desk has been lovingly cared for.

I don't know that much about the sonic differences between chips... How are these types?
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about swapping chips or transformers or any of that. Those boards sounded great back then and still sound great. The newer, "better" chips may have better specs in terms of noise, THD, transient response, etc.....but honestly, I think most modern stuff sounds boring and sterile. If you want a mixer that sounds like an SSL, buy an SSL. If you want a mixer that sounds like an old ABBA, Kansas or Eagles record....or a little album called Thriller....get an old Harrison console.

The Harrisons were great boards that won't really "benefit" from modding in the same way that a cheapie Yamaha PM1000 or Soundcraft board will.

Anyway, I'll post some pics of my channels. How this helps!
Old 5th September 2015
  #23
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Here's one, should be hi-res enough to see everything and make out the chips. Let me know if you need a series of closeups
Attached Thumbnails
Harrison PP1 Console-20150725_120550.jpg  
Old 5th September 2015
  #24
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

Flying blind faders

Thanks man.
Almost every other board I have seen looks physically different than what I have. what is that group of standing cards by the edge connectors?

Maybe you can help me with a fader question that is still bugging me.

I don't have the computer, I dont really want it, at least not now, its the least of my concerns with the task ahead.

What I want to know is will the mutes and other basic functions that are integrated into the fader system work without the computer? My master module is more of a fader master module... The eprom on that module actually says PP1 master.

I'm just wondering if the entire system us dead because I don't have that computer,or will it still be somewhat functional just not automatic? (provided the things that i do have aren't themselves broken)?
Old 5th September 2015
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnblue View Post
Thanks man.
Almost every other board I have seen looks physically different than what I have. what is that group of standing cards by the edge connectors?

Maybe you can help me with a fader question that is still bugging me.

I don't have the computer, I dont really want it, at least not now, its the least of my concerns with the task ahead.

What I want to know is will the mutes and other basic functions that are integrated into the fader system work without the computer? My master module is more of a fader master module... The eprom on that module actually says PP1 master.

I'm just wondering if the entire system us dead because I don't have that computer,or will it still be somewhat functional just not automatic? (provided the things that i do have aren't themselves broken)?
That's a good question. Really not sure....i guess you'll just have to try it out. I have a feeling the mutes will work without the computer, just like faders will, but they just won't be automatable. Just a guess though, really not sure.
Old 19th October 2015
  #26
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

I just wanted to get back In here...
I am pretty sure those standing boards are the group amp boards, or switching boards, mine are located under the console, and they have all of the wiring attached to them via molex, I still don't know which goes where (ins x outs etc.)

We did a bunch of renovations at the studio, (took down a wall and made the mixing room way bigger!) So i built a new desk area for the PP1.

Can I ask if/how you implemented the A/B option?

I'm thinking of running the mic pres/traditional inputs into section A and the tape return inputs into section B or vice versa... Am I on the right track?

Wish me luck, I am literally a few days away from powering her up for the first time. I got the rest of the power supply for the automation in order...

On further inspection, I also realized that the master section has been modified fairly extensively. I'll show you later.

Last edited by johnblue; 20th October 2015 at 05:13 PM..
Old 20th October 2015
  #27
Gear Nut
 
johnblue's Avatar
 

Some close ups under the hood.

Rudimentary power supply checks on the motherboard went well with a DMM, no schematics yet, but I can trace the main rails, they are huge!

I am gong to try to fish out the direct inputs and outputs of single channels... Do you have any wisdom regarding this. I just have 16 filled Edacs on the back, pretty easy to trace the wiring, everything is numbered well, but as of right now, it could be any of the 600 wires
Attached Thumbnails
Harrison PP1 Console-img_20151019_114835917.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20151019_112019794.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20151019_111908273.jpg   Harrison PP1 Console-img_20151019_111844518.jpg  
Old 3rd November 2015
  #28
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Hey John, I'd isolate one channel and try to find the I/O you're looking for. It should then be the same on every channel card. Good luck!
Old 3rd November 2015
  #29
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Also, just FYI for everyone in this thread, I'm unfortunately going to have to sell my PP1 console, well before I could even really dive into it! :(

Reason being, that I'm moving to Hawaii....so I can't bitch too much. Yet still, it's hard to let go.

Anyway, I have it listed locally on Craigslist for $3,000. Gotten several bites, but as of now, it's still around. Thanks!

PS: I'm in Seattle
Old 16th November 2016
  #30
Here for the gear
 

HI! This is the guy who wrote the software for those PP1 input modules, the group module, and the AutoGraph.

What you are saying about substituting op-amps, that was the same argument that the analog engineers were debating while we were designing it. The chief tech from those days, Jeff West, (who was on the "use the other op-amp" side) has replaced those op-amps in many or most of the PP1s in the field. (I think that is why he was at Universal when Bret Spiner was told to use Jeff as his model for the mad scientist role in Independence Day) The console was designed by Dave Harrison, Stan Force, Henry H. Martin, and W. J. J. "John" Hoge IV. Stan has moved on to other things, I have lost track of him. Dave Harrison and Henry Martin are dead. John Hoge is working at NASA in Maryland. (https://hogewash.com/tag/harrison-systems/). John and Jeff are the two most knowledgeable persons about the PP1; John does consulting, Jeff is a freelance engineer/technician.

There are few if any left at Harrison Systems who were involved in the engineering of the console. Bill Owens was the company lawyer back then, Tom Piper was production manager, Vicky Lepley laid out the PP1 PCB mylars. Everyone else is gone.
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