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Best Vocal Reverb? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 16th May 2006
  #31
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I have a Kurzweil Rumor and a PCM70 and I love the way the Rumour sits in the mix and I agree that classicverb sits in a mix well.Sometime ago I decided to try the Tc VS3 for the powercore and more jaw dropped how good this verb sounded on its own and in the Mix.I have Altiverb and the UAD plate as well as the Arts acousticverb but somehow they just don't sit right for me.
Old 16th May 2006
  #32
theblotted,

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted
the difference lies in not the coding but the A/D/A converter of the reverbs. that's why i never use digital I/O when it comes to hardware units..
So you like the sound the converters add to the signal?

Is anyone else doing this for the same reason?
Old 16th May 2006
  #33
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I typically use analog I/O and let the processors do their own conversion. The final result is all I'm interested in, so if that AD/DA is part of the sound then that's what I want.

I second the DN780, especially the plates, and occasionally "Alive". I paired it up with Eventide 2016 for its unique stereo FX. A good combination for acoustic instruments and vocals IMO.

Steve
Old 17th May 2006
  #34
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theblotted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwhitney
theblotted,

So you like the sound the converters add to the signal?

Is anyone else doing this for the same reason?
yes.

gives a character of its own.
Old 17th May 2006
  #35
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redrue's Avatar
 

Eventide H3000 D/SE - preset 257 'Warm Hall'

LoVE that on Vocal...
Old 17th May 2006
  #37
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feyshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted
that's a huge assumption you're making.

i can't say i tried all "hundreds" of them, but a good amount to suggest the general result.

the difference lies in not the coding but the A/D/A converter of the reverbs. that's why i never use digital I/O when it comes to hardware units. it wouldn't surprise me that this is the reason why you like your Rumour a bit better than plugs initially. but plugs are also easier and more accessible, so i don't blame you for liking them either.

that said, i do use Space Designer in Logic very often, esp w/ impulses from noisevault and echochamber. no beef, just sayin'.
Interesting. I've heard someone say this before. It seems crazy to rely on dedicated A/D and D/A quality converters to get your sound safely in and out of the digital realm and then to corrupt that unnecessarily with a trip in and out of the converters again and then in and out of the KSP8 converters.
For the person who said that the Rumour reverb sounded bright and metallic, well I'd have to disagree. Maybe you need to do a bit of adjustment with the damping of the reverb algorithms.
I will experiment with the character that the KSP8 converters impart to the sound, but unless I notice an improvement, I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with optical ADAT I/O.
Could you comment on the character of the sound? Are we talking about jitter?
Old 17th May 2006
  #38
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theblotted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feyshay
Interesting. I've heard someone say this before. It seems crazy to rely on dedicated A/D and D/A quality converters to get your sound safely in and out of the digital realm and then to corrupt that unnecessarily with a trip in and out of the converters again and then in and out of the KSP8 converters.
i think the key is to run reverb wet, bring it back in on another track. then you still retain the quality you had with original vox. i prefer having that extra step of conversion for character.

if you want it to blend, that's a different story tho.
Old 17th May 2006
  #39
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feyshay's Avatar
 

Thanks for the clarification.
Old 17th May 2006
  #40
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo
I've been VERY happy with a few Eventide Orville verbs. VERY LUSH. I.T.B. i dig on eventide's reverb plug... Geez... i guess I am an eventide fan. I sold my pcm80's and 91's to get the orville, eclipse and a 3000d/sx. VERY happy.

reading this thread thinking about mentioning the eventide reverb plugin.

A good reverb , hardware or software, allows you to keep your vocal present and upfront in the mix while still being able to poor a nice fat sauce of reverb over it. A rare quality that both lexicon and eventide shine at.

I'm not a fan of convolution reverbs for music and if then the last thing I would use it on is a lead vocal, wether for an ocean of reverb like ballad or a dry pop or rock tune.
Old 18th May 2006
  #41
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Greg Wells's Avatar
The TL Space plug-in is ridiculous. You can download for free so many different settings from the Digidesign website. For my ears, it's the only fake reverb to use, period. The options are many.
Old 18th May 2006
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feyshay
Interesting. I've heard someone say this before. It seems crazy to rely on dedicated A/D and D/A quality converters to get your sound safely in and out of the digital realm and then to corrupt that unnecessarily with a trip in and out of the converters again and then in and out of the KSP8 converters.
For the person who said that the Rumour reverb sounded bright and metallic, well I'd have to disagree. Maybe you need to do a bit of adjustment with the damping of the reverb algorithms.
I will experiment with the character that the KSP8 converters impart to the sound, but unless I notice an improvement, I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with optical ADAT I/O.
Could you comment on the character of the sound? Are we talking about jitter?
IMO - reverb is like delay. Our ears are conditioned to expected real acoustic echoes to be degraded (diffussion through the air,wind, temperature shifts, brownian motion, the whole nine yards). A perfect cloned digital copy is harsh and unnatural sounding.

For this reason, I think cheesy A/D/A converters on a reverb box can actually improve the reverb/delay sound. A little noise never hurt an ambient sound either. Analog dithering if you will.

I bought the Rumour on the basis of recommendations by people who know somewhat about recording. I also had the benefit of hearing the KSP8 sounds via convolution reverb impulses (the free ones from NoiseVault). The impulse convolving process obviously degrades the sound a little, and makes them a little warmer/less harsh. These are simply the factory presets, and they are identical to the Rumour.

I'm using the Rumour with s/pdif - so I expect the sound is exactly the same as the KSP8. The presets compared with the impulses are very obviously the same, except the real unit is better. The tails aren't truncated like the impulses, and there is slightly better clarity. This - imo - makes the slightly metallic ringing of most of the presets more obvious than the impulses. Maybe the impulses were taken via analog converters?

Agreed - the Rumour is very tweakable, and I found that I can definately improve the sound to my taste.

All I know is that I intend to cable this up for analog use - it's a little too harsh for my ears. And as I said, this whole experience made me realise that hardware reverb isn't the total answer, and I will still be using specific software reverbs for specific tasks.

I'm a mono **** - and if any reverb (hardware or software) sounds worse in mono, out it goes. That means most software reverbs are rejects - and some might only be useable for one algorithm. That's one thing I appreciate about the Rumour. The stereo width can be adjusted, and generally it translates to mono very well.

But I think some analog softening will help. Maybe a Portico 5042 ...
Old 18th May 2006
  #43
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

I use and LOVE the Rumour & Lexicon PCM 70 for vocal duties. That said, you'd be SHOCKED at how decent a job the $150.00 TC Electronic M300 (via SPDIF) does.

Old 18th May 2006
  #44
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Melodioso's Avatar
 

Hi88 fingerz,

What settings are you using on the M300? I haven't found yet a nice vocal comp/reverb setting that I like...

Thanks!
Old 18th May 2006
  #45
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feyshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger
IMO - reverb is like delay. Our ears are conditioned to expected real acoustic echoes to be degraded (diffussion through the air,wind, temperature shifts, brownian motion, the whole nine yards). A perfect cloned digital copy is harsh and unnatural sounding.

For this reason, I think cheesy A/D/A converters on a reverb box can actually improve the reverb/delay sound. A little noise never hurt an ambient sound either. Analog dithering if you will.

I bought the Rumour on the basis of recommendations by people who know somewhat about recording. I also had the benefit of hearing the KSP8 sounds via convolution reverb impulses (the free ones from NoiseVault). The impulse convolving process obviously degrades the sound a little, and makes them a little warmer/less harsh. These are simply the factory presets, and they are identical to the Rumour.

I'm using the Rumour with s/pdif - so I expect the sound is exactly the same as the KSP8. The presets compared with the impulses are very obviously the same, except the real unit is better. The tails aren't truncated like the impulses, and there is slightly better clarity. This - imo - makes the slightly metallic ringing of most of the presets more obvious than the impulses. Maybe the impulses were taken via analog converters?

Agreed - the Rumour is very tweakable, and I found that I can definately improve the sound to my taste.

All I know is that I intend to cable this up for analog use - it's a little too harsh for my ears. And as I said, this whole experience made me realise that hardware reverb isn't the total answer, and I will still be using specific software reverbs for specific tasks.

I'm a mono **** - and if any reverb (hardware or software) sounds worse in mono, out it goes. That means most software reverbs are rejects - and some might only be useable for one algorithm. That's one thing I appreciate about the Rumour. The stereo width can be adjusted, and generally it translates to mono very well.

But I think some analog softening will help. Maybe a Portico 5042 ...
An interesting an insightful perspective. I'm setting up my KSP8 to have some options for analog connection. Unfortunately, I'll be having to rely on my MOTU Traveler to being doing the A/D and D/A connection (in sending to the KSP8). I'll give it a try and see how much of a difference there is. I would imagine that the KSP8 converters are better than those on the Rumour but maybe not.
I've heard others using the Rumour or KSP8 for the final D/A conversion, instead of a dedicated converter.
Old 19th May 2006
  #46
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodioso
Hi88 fingerz,

What settings are you using on the M300? I haven't found yet a nice vocal comp/reverb setting that I like...

Thanks!
I like the plates. Use your ears while you tweak the pre-delay and color control. Blend in a little "dynamic delay", properly tempo-ed to taste.

How can I really answer the question though? I choose settings according to an individual song's needs.

Sometime the TC hall is the ticket!

Keep in mind though, I use the Lex PCM 70 much more often on vocals. Reliable "Magic" if you will!




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