Originally Posted by brew ➡️

Headroom police. The Mackie 8bus has more headroom than the SSL X-Desk. You guys still haven't figured out this headroom business.

Mackie claims +28 dBu on the main outputs. That's not out of the question since it has 18V rails. All other outputs are +22 dBu (thus likely unbalanced).

Someone incorrectly interpreted the meter scaling of X-Desk (0 dBFS and 24 dBu) as it's max output level. The user manual does not say the output level is +24 dBu. However...

SSL claims the X-Desk is >+24 dBu "headroom." Somewhat meaningless but we can assume they mean max output level.

Now, what advantages does the X-Desk have? Being SuperAnalogue, we can assume it is fully balanced, has no caps, and has a bandwidth near 200 kHz. Mackie likely isn't balanced but I don't know. They also claim 120 kHz bandwidth which is pretty darn good. There's more to it than headroom.

All this info brought to you by reading manuals, not messageboards.

Someone said "I think it could be possible to test the headroom." Yes, they figured this out a hundred years ago? You put a tone on the input, and a scope on the out. You turn it up till it flattens, bam, there's your max output level. It's barely even science. When you guys are pushing all your analog inputs to 0 dBFS = +22 dBu, what you think you're hearing as headroom is really how one piece of gear vs another falls on its face. Some do it better than others. You like distortion and mangling, that's perfectly fine and why analog has a place. But let's be honest about what's occurring and not judge gear this way. Personally, I stay away from that range on everything and you'll find it all sounds pretty good. Analog tape never exceeded +16 dBu so why should you?

Props to comscout for being honest and eloquent about the differences.

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT ➡️

Very nice post by somebody that is clearly educated. No I am not being sarcastic.

Thanks,
john

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith ➡️

What do you guys think of the sound of the X-Desk when 'pushed' or driven?

Originally Posted by LindaSmiel ➡️

I hated it actually. Nothing musical about it when pushed. That's exactly why got rid of it. The AWS has a nice fat thing happening when pushed. I was looking for the same thing and certainly didn't find it in the X Desk.

Originally Posted by LindaSmiel ➡️

The point is that it's not great when pushed. There is nothing "fat" about the X Desk. It has no typical SSL summing characteristic as found in the bigger desks.

So implying that because it is SSL, there must be something great about it is not true in my opinion anyway.

The Matrix is also not very good either IMO. That is off topic though.

Mackie is surprisingly great stuff. I wouldn't describe it as top notch, but I would take an 8 bus over an X Desk all day long everyday of the year.

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by LindaSmiel ➡️

The point is that it's not great when pushed. There is nothing "fat" about the X Desk. It has no typical SSL summing characteristic as found in the bigger desks.

So implying that because it is SSL, there must be something great about it is not true in my opinion anyway.

The Matrix is also not very good either IMO. That is off topic though.

Mackie is surprisingly great stuff. I wouldn't describe it as top notch, but I would take an 8 bus over an X Desk all day long everyday of the year.

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by deft_bonz ➡️

Define pushed... to do that on my SSL I need to go with more than 20dBu per track into it. Ever tried that with a Mackie

If you don't like the SSL pushed, don't do it. But you won't be nearly able to push the Mackies as hard as the SSL. And that can matter, especially if you want/need to push outboard gear thru the inserts or before the inputs.

I owned a Mackie 8-bus, and it doesn't come near to the SSL technically wise. Of course the 8bus has more features and more channels. The sound is anyway matter of taste, not worth to discuss about it.

Originally Posted by deft_bonz ➡️

Define pushed... to do that on my SSL I need to go with more than 20dBu per track into it. Ever tried that with a Mackie

If you don't like the SSL pushed, don't do it. But you won't be nearly able to push the Mackies as hard as the SSL. And that can matter, especially if you want/need to push outboard gear thru the inserts or before the inputs.

I owned a Mackie 8-bus, and it doesn't come near to the SSL technically wise. Of course the 8bus has more features and more channels. The sound is anyway matter of taste, not worth to discuss about it.

Originally Posted by Reborn ➡️

How does the Dangerous 2 buss LT sound compared to the Xdesk?

Originally Posted by deft_bonz ➡️

Good question. I haven't analysed that in a "scientific" way. What I'd say extemporary is that the Dangerous has less "sound" than the SSL, let's say cleaner (in my not very experienced audio engineer life with various mixers). But the SSL seems to me more pristine.

Originally Posted by foldback ➡️

I would love to hear a high quality audio track, passed through a higher-end Mackie mixer and the same track passed through an X-Desk.

Originally Posted by piano ➡️

The now discontinued Mackie 8 bus series shows better specs in many areas over the onyx series and the SSL . Of course, these are specs and can vary in testing from manufacturer at times.

For years the Mackie 8 bus was the king of project and many pro studios. Then it became known as '#%&* on a stick'. Neither are accurate.

That said, the Mackie 8 bus series was a really great desk for many of us. I loved mine for almost 20 years and recently sold it. It was a total champ.

Mackie - 8•Bus Specifications

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx4...yx_4Bus_SS.pdf

Originally Posted by Reborn ➡️

Is that like the Dangerous is Cleaner the The SSL has a Finish? I listened to the stuff on your site and def here the Analog summing and it Sounds SSL' ish to me. Is the dangerous being used in those clips on your site?

Originally Posted by LindaSmiel ➡️

The point is that it's not great when pushed. There is nothing "fat" about the X Desk. It has no typical SSL summing characteristic as found in the bigger desks.

So implying that because it is SSL, there must be something great about it is not true in my opinion anyway.

The Matrix is also not very good either IMO. That is off topic though.

Mackie is surprisingly great stuff. I wouldn't describe it as top notch, but I would take an 8 bus over an X Desk all day long everyday of the year.

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➡️

No to all of this.

- c

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith ➡️

so it's fat and does sound great when pushed?

Originally Posted by ionian ➡️

Depends who you're asking!

Regards,
Frank

Originally Posted by Steve Honest ➡️

X desk by a mile,
the X desk sounds like a real desk, the mackie is an expensive door stop or paperweight

steve

Originally Posted by comscout ➡️

I'm suggesting here that most mixers used as carefully as I just described would sound indistinguishable from a six figure SSL or Neve under the same conditions. Especially in a blind listening text. Can anyone here identify which recording in the top 100 was mixed on any particular console... just by listening? Not a chance... but more importantly, can the buying public tell the difference?