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Tonelux questions for Mr. Paul Wolff
Old 12th May 2006
  #1
Tonelux questions for Mr. Paul Wolff

Hi Paul..

I thought about sending a PM but I figured others might want to know the answers to these questions as well. Sorry for the spam everyone if you are not interested.

Hope these questions are not too dumb, just want to get up to speed.



1) The FX2+ has a master fader on it that can be used for whatever buss I assign it to yes? This is a stereo fader? I only see one transformer in the photo on the site but the description says it can be used for the stereo bus. I assume it takes two FX2's for the stereo bus then?

2) Besides the meters and the trim pots what is the difference between the SM2 and the summing on the FX2+? More transformers on the SM2 but I have no idea how you are using them (maybe on the 2 bus insert?). How would you characterize the difference in sound between the FX2+ and the SM2?

3) Where the h*ll do you get cables from to wires these up!?!?! That is somewhat a rhetorical question, I see the cabling instructions and I am sure I can pass that on to Chris at Redco but do you have someone you recommend or someone who you know has built cables for your clients? Ever think about selling your own high quality cables pre made? Just an idea.

4) Can any module be put in any order or does the SM2 or the CR2 have to be in the far left or far right etc?

5) Do you have to have an AUX1 to use the aux bus to send out of and return to the VRack?

6) I know this is subjective but with the transformers and all how would you compare the sonic difference between the FX2 and a pair of MX2's? BIG difference, not too big a difference, no real difference etc. Again I know this is subjective.

7) I assume that the monitor section of the CR1 is post SM2 so I can hear the transformers and inserts on the back side of the mix?

Thanks so much for your time.
Old 15th May 2006
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hi Paul..

I thought about sending a PM but I figured others might want to know the answers to these questions as well. Sorry for the spam everyone if you are not interested.

Hope these questions are not too dumb, just want to get up to speed.
No questions are ever dumb. The stranger it seems just means its getting further from the box. It's called "thinking".

Quote:

1) The FX2+ has a master fader on it that can be used for whatever buss I assign it to yes? This is a stereo fader? I only see one transformer in the photo on the site but the description says it can be used for the stereo bus. I assume it takes two FX2's for the stereo bus then?
Yes, it is a separate summing amp and can be used for anything. It is mono and has a 1/4 inch jack for an external fader too. It, like the one on the TR8+ is just parked there because there was some blank space that it would fit into.
Quote:

2) Besides the meters and the trim pots what is the difference between the SM2 and the summing on the FX2+? More transformers on the SM2 but I have no idea how you are using them (maybe on the 2 bus insert?). How would you characterize the difference in sound between the FX2+ and the SM2?
The FX2+, TR8+ and SM1/2 all have the same summing amp and transformer. The SM1/2 have a master fader insert point for a compressor and a booster out to feed the mixdown recorder, plus a meter.
Quote:

3) Where the h*ll do you get cables from to wires these up!?!?! That is somewhat a rhetorical question, I see the cabling instructions and I am sure I can pass that on to Chris at Redco but do you have someone you recommend or someone who you know has built cables for your clients? Ever think about selling your own high quality cables pre made? Just an idea.
ALL cables, including the bus links between racks are standard DA-88 type and can be purchased from any number of manufacturers. You can also use ribbons for the interconnects because everything is balanced, including the busses. Very easy to wire. You have a choice of everything from Hosa, Zaolla, Mogami, ProCo, Custom, etc.
Quote:

4) Can any module be put in any order or does the SM2 or the CR2 have to be in the far left or far right etc?
Anything can go anywhere any time any rack any day of the year.
Quote:

5) Do you have to have an AUX1 to use the aux bus to send out of and return to the VRack?
The AUX1 is only for accessing the busses from an external mixer to merge them together. All outputs are from the back of the racks and follow the DA-88 pinout.
Quote:

6) I know this is subjective but with the transformers and all how would you compare the sonic difference between the FX2 and a pair of MX2's? BIG difference, not too big a difference, no real difference etc. Again I know this is subjective.
The modules all sound the same, the outputs of all the summing sound the same, and if you get the balanced transformer direct output option of the MX2, the direct out is a little fatter than the stock one, which is transformerless and unbalanced.
Quote:

7) I assume that the monitor section of the CR1 is post SM2 so I can hear the transformers and inserts on the back side of the mix?
Yes it is. You can also hook up the summing output (pre comp) to one of the input selections and be able to do a pre/post compare. The CR2 is wired the way you want it with the external cables.
Quote:

Thanks so much for your time.
This is why I am here... Ignore the spelling errors, I am writing more words than I know...
Old 15th May 2006
  #3
Thanks again Paul, I think you might have another customer soon.... I wish I were rich, Gearslutz is going to put me in the poor house.
Old 15th May 2006
  #4
start small, and build. The TX stuff is designed so you don't have to throw anything away as you grow.
Old 25th May 2006
  #5
Gear Addict
 
krid's Avatar
 

Quote:
The FX2+, TR8+ and SM1/2 all have the same summing amp and transformer. The SM1/2 have a master fader insert point for a compressor and a booster out to feed the mixdown recorder, plus a meter.
There is no insert point on the FX2+ to put a compressor ?
If you want to insert a comp on the master you absolutely need a SM2 ?
Old 25th May 2006
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
There is no insert point on the FX2+ to put a compressor ?
If you want to insert a comp on the master you absolutely need a SM2 ?

"Insert" no, at least from what I have learned but you can always put it after the outs of the FX2+. That was what I was thinking but I think I have just decided to go with the SM2 and be done with it.

Paul (or anyone else if you know). The CR2, that will let me take multiple sources and send them out to multiple monitors.

I wanted to clarify that I can input a CD player or something into the CR2 without any other modules right? The CR2 can take the 2 track mix buss from a group of FX2s, FX2+'s, or MX2 etc. and it can also take an external source like a CD player without anything else needed yes?

Thanks.
Old 26th May 2006
  #7
Old 26th May 2006
  #8
No inserts with the FX, but if if you feed a comp, then you could return it into the CR2.

THe CR2 has 5 stereo inputs and 3 speaker outputs and can feed either sends1/2 or 3/4 with the monitor mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
"Insert" no, at least from what I have learned but you can always put it after the outs of the FX2+. That was what I was thinking but I think I have just decided to go with the SM2 and be done with it.

Paul (or anyone else if you know). The CR2, that will let me take multiple sources and send them out to multiple monitors.

I wanted to clarify that I can input a CD player or something into the CR2 without any other modules right? The CR2 can take the 2 track mix buss from a group of FX2s, FX2+'s, or MX2 etc. and it can also take an external source like a CD player without anything else needed yes?

Thanks.
Old 26th May 2006
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
No inserts with the FX, but if if you feed a comp, then you could return it into the CR2.

THe CR2 has 5 stereo inputs and 3 speaker outputs and can feed either sends1/2 or 3/4 with the monitor mix.

Hi Paul. Sorry to be thick here just want to know what I am getting into.

The 5 stereo inputs on the CR2, are all of them accessible only by the internal routing / bussing or are some of these accessible with external patch points. Again I am worried about how to plug in a CD player, can that just come right into the CR2 or would I need a separate FX2 for this?
Old 26th May 2006
  #10
There are no internal inputs to the CR2. All inputs are from a rear connector and anything can be plugged into them. If you want to monitor the stereo mix bus, you would mult the feed to the stereo recording device and put that into the first input of the CR2.

The inputs are as follows:

VRACK MAIN BALANCED IN = "ST" input of the CR2
VRACK INSERT RETURN INPUT = "EXT 1" input of the CR2
CR2 Dsub connector = "EXT 2 thru 5" inputs of the CR2

VRACK MAIN BALANCED OUTPUT = CR2 Main Speaker output
CR2 Dsub connector = "SPK2 and SPK3" outputs

VRACK METER OUTPUT (center connector) = VU OUT L/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hi Paul. Sorry to be thick here just want to know what I am getting into.

The 5 stereo inputs on the CR2, are all of them accessible only by the internal routing / bussing or are some of these accessible with external patch points. Again I am worried about how to plug in a CD player, can that just come right into the CR2 or would I need a separate FX2 for this?
Old 26th May 2006
  #11
Gear Addict
 
krid's Avatar
 

Thanks for your answer Paul.

By the way, did you read John Van Nest post about making a simple summing box ?

I will quote him :

Quote:
Paul,

Seems as though you should consider making a simple summing box using the superior sonics of your Tonelux products. Something with pans and level only. 16 channels. Simple, straightforward, to the point and maximizing budget considerations. Many of us want the very best in summing but have no need for many of the features which your modules generally offer. Seems like your module products actually fill a much wider audio role than many of us want/need.

Thoughts?

John Van Nest
Resonate Music Studios
Burbank, CA
Old 26th May 2006
  #12
Maybe my MIC isn't on, but we have a 2-bus type of setup already. If you use the FX2+, you can assign the summing to stereo, then use the FX2 for the rest of the channels. You can fit 32 inputs into one VRack. You can start out with 2 FX2+ and 2 FX2, making 8 inputs at a very reasonal price, then if you want EQs, Mic pres, more inputs or what ever, you don't have to discard anything because you already have the PSU and RACK. You just build as you want. The FX2+ can then become the summing masters for the MX2 and the SM2 would replace the FX2+ that were assigned to stereo summing.

Even though the rack and PSU will cost 1K, the PSU can power 2 racks.

Even at LIST, the cost of a simple 8 channel set up is less than 3K. This isn't that far off from a off the shelf 8bus system. A 32 channel system is only 8K, which is now cheaper than buying 4 of many different brands of summers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krid
Thanks for your answer Paul.

By the way, did you read John Van Nest post about making a simple summing box ?

I will quote him :
Old 27th May 2006
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
There are no internal inputs to the CR2. All inputs are from a rear connector and anything can be plugged into them. If you want to monitor the stereo mix bus, you would mult the feed to the stereo recording device and put that into the first input of the CR2.

The inputs are as follows:

VRACK MAIN BALANCED IN = "ST" input of the CR2
VRACK INSERT RETURN INPUT = "EXT 1" input of the CR2
CR2 Dsub connector = "EXT 2 thru 5" inputs of the CR2

VRACK MAIN BALANCED OUTPUT = CR2 Main Speaker output
CR2 Dsub connector = "SPK2 and SPK3" outputs

VRACK METER OUTPUT (center connector) = VU OUT L/R
Thanks Paul, I think I get it now.

My only other question about this... I assume the SM2 is bussed internally right? As in if I have 4 FX2 modules they are all going to show up on the SM2 already unless I change jumpers someplace I assume?

One more question. Let's say I want to send my drum tracks to a pair of stereo parallel comp tracks. For drums I have kick, snare, hats / overheads, toms, and rooms. That is 8 inputs or 4 FX2's.

What do I need to add to my Tonelux hardware to do a pair of stereo compression tracks from all the above drums?
Old 28th May 2006
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Thanks Paul, I think I get it now.

My only other question about this... I assume the SM2 is bussed internally right? As in if I have 4 FX2 modules they are all going to show up on the SM2 already unless I change jumpers someplace I assume?
The SM1, SM2, FX2, FX2+ and the TR8 are all assignable internally as to which bus they are assigned to. Ther are 16 total in the rack, and if the rack is not linked, those busses can be used over and over for different things. You can assign the lower FX2 level/pan to the stereo bus and make the top level/pan go to the send 1/2 bus, etc.
Quote:

One more question. Let's say I want to send my drum tracks to a pair of stereo parallel comp tracks. For drums I have kick, snare, hats / overheads, toms, and rooms. That is 8 inputs or 4 FX2's.
You would take 2 FX2+ and 2 FX2, assign them to a pair of unused busses and you now have a sub mixer within the Vrack that is not connected to anything else. You would then hook up the drums and feed the stereo mix into you compressor, then back into a couple of channels. If you mult the output of the FX2 submixer to one of the inputs of the CR2, you can monitor the mix from them.
Quote:

What do I need to add to my Tonelux hardware to do a pair of stereo compression tracks from all the above drums?
Old 28th May 2006
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
The SM1, SM2, FX2, FX2+ and the TR8 are all assignable internally as to which bus they are assigned to. Ther are 16 total in the rack, and if the rack is not linked, those busses can be used over and over for different things. You can assign the lower FX2 level/pan to the stereo bus and make the top level/pan go to the send 1/2 bus, etc.

You would take 2 FX2+ and 2 FX2, assign them to a pair of unused busses and you now have a sub mixer within the Vrack that is not connected to anything else. You would then hook up the drums and feed the stereo mix into you compressor, then back into a couple of channels. If you mult the output of the FX2 submixer to one of the inputs of the CR2, you can monitor the mix from them.
Thanks Paul... great, very versital I love it.

So have you thought about a headphone module? Maybe a one space unit that could be fed by the CR2 somehow with 2 or 3 headphone outputs?
Old 2nd June 2006
  #16
Here for the gear
 
nefilim1334's Avatar
 

Shadowmix?

I've been looking at Tonelux for a while with the intention of buying.... I've read a little about Shadowmix and how it can be controlled from the DAW. I assume that it was mostly built around Pro Tools but I was wondering if it would work with Logic?
Old 2nd June 2006
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by nefilim1334
I've been looking at Tonelux for a while with the intention of buying.... I've read a little about Shadowmix and how it can be controlled from the DAW. I assume that it was mostly built around Pro Tools but I was wondering if it would work with Logic?
ShadowMix uses the Hui interface, and several other Midi and ethernet interfaces including Media Composer, Film Composer and Xpress, ProTools, Cakewalk, Emagic, MotU, Steinberg and more...

I also seems to be working very well, according to the small user base so far.
Old 2nd June 2006
  #18
Hey Paul....

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new

So have you thought about a headphone module? Maybe a one space unit that could be fed by the CR2 somehow with 2 or 3 headphone outputs?
Old 2nd June 2006
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hey Paul....
no power amps. sorry too much current.
Old 2nd June 2006
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
no power amps. sorry too much current.
I was afraid of that but I figuered that would be the answer.

Thanks Paul (I think I am ordering my rig today by the way).
Old 3rd June 2006
  #21
Gear Addict
 
bit mangler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
ShadowMix uses the Hui interface, and several other Midi and ethernet interfaces including Media Composer, Film Composer and Xpress, ProTools, Cakewalk, Emagic, MotU, Steinberg and more...

I also seems to be working very well, according to the small user base so far.
Paul,

This is a bit confusing because you have said "several other midi and ethernet interface" -so when ordering the V-racks can we specify the interface or is it generic.To make it more simple - for which JLC product ( or the closest) do we need to check the compatibility.It'll be really great if you can include in your website the software folks are using..for example it would be very informative to know what software Bansaal,Ryan etc are using.BTW that surround rig is shweeeet heh

Another suggestion: it will be great to have a single Tonelux Q&A thread.You have taken time to comment on almost every thread that has Tonelux on it.It'll be great to have all the info at one place
Old 3rd June 2006
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bit mangler
Another suggestion: it will be great to have a single Tonelux Q&A thread.You have taken time to comment on almost every thread that has Tonelux on it.It'll be great to have all the info at one place

Kind of what I was shooting for with this thread actually.

Old 3rd June 2006
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bit mangler
Paul,

This is a bit confusing because you have said "several other midi and ethernet interface" -so when ordering the V-racks can we specify the interface or is it generic.To make it more simple - for which JLC product ( or the closest) do we need to check the compatibility.It'll be really great if you can include in your website the software folks are using..for example it would be very informative to know what software Bansaal,Ryan etc are using.BTW that surround rig is shweeeet heh

Another suggestion: it will be great to have a single Tonelux Q&A thread.You have taken time to comment on almost every thread that has Tonelux on it.It'll be great to have all the info at one place
We are talking about a Tonelux users group.

The unit I am using is the JLCooper MCS3000X. The spec sheet for it is the same for me, but of course I have audio and local mute/solo.
Old 4th June 2006
  #24
Lives for gear
and it works quite well!

(or am I not "allowed" to mention it?)
Old 4th June 2006
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
and it works quite well!

(or am I not "allowed" to mention it?)
Yes you can, I still haven't decided if I want to make 1.5" systems other than this one, but feel free. The show one worked real well too. That just goes to show you how special you are...
Old 4th June 2006
  #26
Lives for gear
Well if you DO want to, I could already probably sell another one for you <g>

but you should pop up this week and see me abusing it in person... and of course, more importantly, there are the martinis...

we need to sort out a stereo fader though...

but only AFTER the martinis.
Old 5th June 2006
  #27
Gear Addict
 
bit mangler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
and it works quite well!

(or am I not "allowed" to mention it?)
Did you get some "custom made" faders from Paul???
Old 5th June 2006
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bit mangler
Did you get some "custom made" faders from Paul???
You could say that.....

LOL

Old 5th June 2006
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Kalite Marka's Avatar
 

Hey Michael,
So did you order yours yet.
What config.?
Old 5th June 2006
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
Hey Michael,
So did you order yours yet.
What config.?

Hi Kalite

Going to order today or tomorrow. I think I am going with a CR2, SM2 and one FX2 for now with the goal of getting 7 more FX2's later for 16 channels of summing. I am going to start really small then work up to a larger system when I have the money (which might be never I guess... ).

Way down the road I might pick up another VRack and start in on some EQ's and such depending on how I feel about the whole thing after I start using it.
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